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    can't sell 997s to dealers

    called 4 dealers trying to sell a loaded 997S with 5000 miles. Told each of them I would sell to best offer. Not a single call back! Thought it would be easier to sell to them rather than dealing directly with buyers. I guess the new ones are moving too fast to interest anyone in a used vehicle. Never would have guessed sale would be a problem.

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    Quote:
    Tired said:
    called 4 dealers trying to sell a loaded 997S with 5000 miles. Told each of them I would sell to best offer. Not a single call back! Thought it would be easier to sell to them rather than dealing directly with buyers. I guess the new ones are moving too fast to interest anyone in a used vehicle. Never would have guessed sale would be a problem.



    No, that usually means the new ones are moving too slowly. Interesting...

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    Don't take this the wrong way, but your "best offer between four dealers" approach turned them all off. You need a real price. Furthermore, they're probably assuming that it's a waste of time responding to you, that there's just no light at the end of that tunnel. They figure that since you're not trading the car in, there's no way that the price they would need to offer, and the price you would want to get, could ever meet at an acceptable figure for both parties, allowing them adequate cushion for re-sale.

    When a person trades in their car, they benefit HUGELY from the sales-tax-relief that the value of the trade represents. For instance, if you traded your 5,000 mile 997S in for $65K on a $90K new 997S, you would only have to pay tax on $25K, effectively saving you $4550 (based on 7% tax) on the purchase. That's a chunk of money. And it's that chunk of money that makes the deal FEASIBLE for both you and the dealer. You can justifiably conclude that you received $69550 in value for your trade (trade in allowance + money saved on sales tax), and the dealer only has $65K invested in your car, so they can turn around and sell it for the same $69550 as a used car and make a reasonable profit. Without the sales-tax savings that a trade-in affords, either you or the dealer effectively gets squeezed into a bad deal, as that $4500 or so bucks gets tossed out of the equation. You either have to accept an offer from a dealer that would be 4-5 grand LESS than what they would give you on trade, or they have to make you an offer 4-5 grand MORE than what they would normally take on trade, or you both would have to meet in the middle, which in the dealer's perspective, isn't worth the trouble and/or risk.

    In short, they aren't taking the time to make you an offer that they know you likely will be insulted by, as it will be several thousand dollars less than what trade-in value would be, due to the fact that the tax savings on normal trade-ins doesn't benefit your deal.

    Selling the car privately is also a tough row to hoe, because most people who can afford a 5,000 mile used 997S, can afford a brand-spanking new one, and will opt for the new car over yours. Those folks who can't afford a new 997S, typically can't feasibly get financed for a $65-70K used car either, so they're locked-out.

    Buying a new 997S, and then deciding after 5,000 miles to get rid of it, is a lose-lose situation. Your likely best and easiest way out, is to trade it in on something else. Selling outright will be painful to your wallet, unless that's not much of an issue to you.

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    a tough row to hoe



    I've never heard that before. I love it!

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    Great response, you always seem to break it down perfectly

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    I've seen adds recently for $4,000 off MSRP on new 997's
    So you can obviously negotiate lower than that
    + it is a model change month

    Probably a tough window to get a good price.

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    Of course no one called you back. They can't screw you enough with the terms you've set up, they require a trade in.

    You know those internet sites which claim to make local dealers compete against eachother to give you the best price on a new car? It's a total lie. . They've banded together and conspire to take turns pitching their "competing" prices to the endless line of "internet savy" (yeah right!) consumers who sign up for it. Same thing as salesmen taking turns ambushing an individual customer as s/he enters the showroom.

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    Try ebay Motors.

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    I don't believe, the 997 S is a slow seller .... inventories in the US are rather low with 36 days of supply at end of May against an average of 45 days for the 997 "family".

    I was told, it's holding-up very well its resale value.

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    CarMax will buy (if there is one around you)

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    Agree 100%
    That's probably one of the reasons they're not calling you back. Since it's not a trade in they are going to offer you wholesale versus the retail # you should get when selling private.
    They probably think somethings strange that you would not be trading in for another car and at the same time attempt to sell it to a dealer instead of private.

    Besides the only way to be taken seriously is to ask for an appointment at the dealer for the correct person to give you a value so that you can bring the car in person to have it looked at. Depending on who you spoke w/ ie if it's a salesperson they make nothing by bringing a car to the dealership for resale. It's a waste of time for them. Ask for the salesmanager or owner.

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    Quote:
    SrfCity said:
    Try ebay Motors.



    A couple of weeks ago I was watching an auction for a 2005 997 S Cabriolet. msrp $100k. Car had 15,000 miles, had a number of scratches, not in the best condition imo- sold for $81,000.

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    When a person trades in their car, they benefit HUGELY from the sales-tax-relief that the value of the trade represents. For instance, if you traded your 5,000 mile 997S in for $65K on a $90K new 997S, you would only have to pay tax on $25K, effectively saving you $4550 (based on 7% tax) on the purchase.



    Not in California. They write up the deal on the new car adding the sales tax to the purchase price of the car. They then treat the trade-in like a down payment. In other words they subtract the value of the trade-in from the total that included tax. Even if you sell your car to a private party, they have to pay sales tax on the price you charged them. California can collect a lot of tax from one car over its lifetime......from the original purchaser and all subsequent purchasers.

    Phil

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    Quote:
    PS CA said:
    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    When a person trades in their car, they benefit HUGELY from the sales-tax-relief that the value of the trade represents. For instance, if you traded your 5,000 mile 997S in for $65K on a $90K new 997S, you would only have to pay tax on $25K, effectively saving you $4550 (based on 7% tax) on the purchase.



    Not in California. They write up the deal on the new car adding the sales tax to the purchase price of the car. They then treat the trade-in like a down payment. In other words they subtract the value of the trade-in from the total that included tax. Even if you sell your car to a private party, they have to pay sales tax on the price you charged them. California can collect a lot of tax from one car over its lifetime......from the original purchaser and all subsequent purchasers.

    Phil



    And I thought New York was bad
    Although we benefit from the non-taxed trade-in allowance, any subsequent buyers (of the used car) have to pay tax again.
    The dealers can also offer the secondary market buyer more incentives, like factory cert., better financing, etc...making it "a tough row to hoe".

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    Kalifornia..... what a surprise....

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    Quote:
    MattTheCarNut said:
    Quote:
    Tired said:
    called 4 dealers trying to sell a loaded 997S with 5000 miles. Told each of them I would sell to best offer. Not a single call back! Thought it would be easier to sell to them rather than dealing directly with buyers. I guess the new ones are moving too fast to interest anyone in a used vehicle. Never would have guessed sale would be a problem.



    No, that usually means the new ones are moving too slowly. Interesting...

    Before my retirement I was the used car manager/buyer for a moderately large BMW dealership and if I would have received such an offer to purchase a car I would have done the same thing, ignored it.

    In the time it takes to deal with one off the street customer in buying their one car I could have bought a whole truck load of cars at auction and not have to put up with the grief. When I would ask "how much do you want for it?" the answer was always the same, "I don't know" but as soon as I gave an offer then magically they knew what they wanted for their car. Most good buyers don't have time for such games. The last 5 years or so I was in the business I no longer bought cars off the street, my time could be better and more profitably spent buying elsewhere.

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    Quote:
    PS CA said:
    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    When a person trades in their car, they benefit HUGELY from the sales-tax-relief that the value of the trade represents. For instance, if you traded your 5,000 mile 997S in for $65K on a $90K new 997S, you would only have to pay tax on $25K, effectively saving you $4550 (based on 7% tax) on the purchase.



    Not in California. They write up the deal on the new car adding the sales tax to the purchase price of the car. They then treat the trade-in like a down payment. In other words they subtract the value of the trade-in from the total that included tax. Even if you sell your car to a private party, they have to pay sales tax on the price you charged them. California can collect a lot of tax from one car over its lifetime......from the original purchaser and all subsequent purchasers.

    Phil



    Ditto for Virginia. The 3% titling tax (not a sales tax) is on the price of the car you are buying, not on the net after trade-in

    Jim

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    Quote:
    Jim48 said:
    Ditto for Virginia. The 3% titling tax (not a sales tax) is on the price of the car you are buying, not on the net after trade-in

    Jim



    In my county in Calfornia the sales tax is 7.75%. In addition I just paid over $600.00 to license a new Cayenne.

    Phil

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers


    In my county in Calfornia the sales tax is 7.75%. In addition I just paid over $600.00 to license a new Cayenne.

    Phil



    Yeah, but you know what we'd be paying here in CA for registration if they hadn't "rolled" back the registration fees?

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    Quote:
    MattTheCarNut said:
    Quote:
    Tired said:
    called 4 dealers trying to sell a loaded 997S with 5000 miles. Told each of them I would sell to best offer. Not a single call back! Thought it would be easier to sell to them rather than dealing directly with buyers. I guess the new ones are moving too fast to interest anyone in a used vehicle. Never would have guessed sale would be a problem.



    No, that usually means the new ones are moving too slowly. Interesting...



    In Autoweek, the magazine drove a 2005 Carrera S for one year. It cost $90,555 new and the trade in number they were given was $58,725. Considering the mileage of the S they were turning in, the depreciation was $1.11 per mile.

    In this weeks issue, there was a couple of letters to the editior indicating their dissatisfaction with Porsche resale value and not wanting to buy another new one.

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    Quote:
    PS CA said:
    Not in California. They write up the deal on the new car adding the sales tax to the purchase price of the car. They then treat the trade-in like a down payment. In other words they subtract the value of the trade-in from the total that included tax. Even if you sell your car to a private party, they have to pay sales tax on the price you charged them. California can collect a lot of tax from one car over its lifetime......from the original purchaser and all subsequent purchasers.

    Phil



    Hence the reason why when in CA you are negotiating to buy a new car with a trade in you tell the dealer to give you two prices for your trade in: (i) the best price they can offer you for your trade in car and (ii) the lowest possible price they can offer you for your trade in car without getting in trouble with the tax authorities. Then you agree to the low price and subtract the difference from the price of your new car. The final result is that you screw the Franchise Tax Board out of a lot of tax. I happened on this little trick when trading in my 993 for my 996. Pretty neat, huh?

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    MattTheCarNut said:
    Quote:
    Tired said:
    called 4 dealers trying to sell a loaded 997S with 5000 miles. Told each of them I would sell to best offer. Not a single call back! Thought it would be easier to sell to them rather than dealing directly with buyers. I guess the new ones are moving too fast to interest anyone in a used vehicle. Never would have guessed sale would be a problem.



    No, that usually means the new ones are moving too slowly. Interesting...



    In Autoweek, the magazine drove a 2005 Carrera S for one year. It cost $90,555 new and the trade in number they were given was $58,725. Considering the mileage of the S they were turning in, the depreciation was $1.11 per mile.

    In this weeks issue, there was a couple of letters to the editior indicating their dissatisfaction with Porsche resale value and not wanting to buy another new one.


    In New York, a $86000.00 '05 Carrera S with 10k on the clock is bringing about $66,000.00 (wholesale) I know some who have done even better. It's not great but it's not as bad as the aforementioned.

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    Quote:
    Tired said:
    called 4 dealers trying to sell a loaded 997S with 5000 miles. Told each of them I would sell to best offer. Not a single call back! Thought it would be easier to sell to them rather than dealing directly with buyers. I guess the new ones are moving too fast to interest anyone in a used vehicle. Never would have guessed sale would be a problem.



    what are you expecting to get? let us know what you do.

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    $95,000 invoice.
    $82,000 is what I was looking for.

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    Do u mean invoice or MSRP? I also assume that the car is a 2006.

    Anyway, I just sold my 2006 997S with 4100 miles for $74,000 and had three parties that would have paid that for it. MSRP was $87,410. But I also had a set of aftermarket Kinesis wheels that I included in that price. I sold the OEM wheels/tires on Ebay for $2100.00 which included the tires. After the OEM wheel sale I still had about $4k out of pocket for the Kinesis wheels/tires. The used package had about 3300 miles on it.

    I advertised on AutoTrader and purchased their $69.00 "run till it sells" ad and had about nine high quality photos with the ad. I would recommend that route to you. Assuming that your MSRP was about $95k I would think you could get around $77k for your car. The market will not bear the $82k that you want based upon my sale. I found a very strong equilibrium price with about a 20% discount from MSRP. The tax advantage cited above is a strong selling point for your car to a private party. Depending on the State, the tax savings can be thousands of dollars. In my case, the buyer was from Georgia and he stated that he saved about $4k-$5K by buying from a private party. I also do not subscribe to "if you can afford a used one for $75k most people would spring for the additional $10k-$15K and buy a new one". There are many buyers out there that are looking for exactly what you have and would gladly pocket the $10k-$15K difference.

    Advertise on AutoTrader and you will see what I mean. And I am not affiliated with AutoTrader in any manner whatsoever. I have never had a problem selling any of my cars via that venue - Corvetttes, M3's, NSX, AMG's etc.

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    Quote:
    Tired said:
    $95,000 invoice.
    $82,000 is what I was looking for.



    Is the $95k the MSRP? If so, you won't get $82k from a dealer because that is not much less than the invoice price on your car. Why would they buy a used car for around the same as they pay for a new car?

    Your only chance of getting anywhere near that amount is to sell it private party.

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    Oops, yes that was the sticker, not invoice.

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    Tired, I'm afraid you're hallucinating my friend. Dealerships are not non-profit organizations. If they gave you $82K, who the hell in their right mind do you suppose would in-turn walk onto their lot and pay them $85K or-so for your 5,000 mile USED car, when they could easily spec and purchase an IDENTICAL NEW one for around $90K, as it's as easy as pie to get $5K off MSRP on any new-997-purchase these days?

    You'll be very lucky to get anything more than $70K for your car, even private-party. The value of your car dropped an instant $10-15K the moment you drove it off the lot, and it's continued to drop since that moment. That's the reality of ANY new car, it's just the laws of proportions that get ugly with more expensive cars. Kelly Blue Book on your car, with 5,000 miles, with heavy options, is a bit over $72K private-party.

    MSRP on my 2005 997S was $92K. I paid $87K new. $82K for somebody's used car with 5,000 miles?? Ain't gonna happen.

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    I agree. If the car is 2005 you will be lucky to get $70k. If it is a 2006 then I will stick with my earlier post, based upon my sale of a week ago.

    Re: can't sell 997s to dealers

    crap. Actually, I got an offer in the upper 70's already. I guess I should have jumped on it right away. Hope they don't read this forum. It was the first offer I got and I thought I could do better. I have to agree with you that $70K for a $93K MSRP car would sell...I would have bought it at that price! Thanks for the reality check:)

     
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