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    991 Targa Revisited

    DSC02272.JPGI am not very technically minded so I need RC and others here to explain exactly how they think this innovative Targa roof will work on the 991 version.

    http://www.rennteam.com/forum/thread/20405390/991_Targa/page1.html

    A) The articulated panels seen in diagram provided in the thread above obviously 'move'.  That is a given.  The Rear Targa Glass area pivots back slightly, allowing the Targa Roof above driver and passenger to slide back and then store upright behind the front seats, right?  That is what the red arrow is showing, no?  It doesn't siide under the Rear Targa Glass area like in the 997 Targa models where it distorts rear view, correct?

    1) Question:  Is the Targa Roof  'glass' or 'carbon fiber'?

    2) Question: Does it store upright behind front seats to create additional wind draft protection?

    3) Question: a) Does the Roll Bar Center Section also slide back and stores upright behind the front seats (if attached to the Targa Roof)? Or b) does it elevate out of the way, allow the Targa Roof to slide under it, then comes back down to complete a 'solid' Targa Roll Bar when the Targa roof is in the 'down' position and stored inside car?

    B) Is the consensus opinion on this forum that the Targa will only be available a) in AWD, Carrera 4 base and S model with the wider rear hips? and b) the red reflective bar connecting the two rear lights as seen in previous 997 models?

    C) When is the expected debut of this model for the German market?

    Saludos, Eduardo

     


    Re: 991 Targa Revisited

    I'm pretty sure the targa will operate the same way as the cabrio i.e. the rear glass window will sit fixed on top of the clam and lift up and back at the same time. The targa forward roof section is effectively the same panel used by the cabrio version so I should imagine it will fold back in the same manner and stow away under the glass covered clam.

     


    Re: 991 Targa Revisited

    wait until that system breaks; insurance company will likely decide to replace the car due to costing issues!


    --

    2012 991 C2S -PDK / 2010 997.2 turbo cab manual, sold / 2008 Cayenne GTS Manual /2008 RS 60 sold /04 C4S sold - 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold


    Re: 991 Targa Revisited

    ISUK:

    I'm pretty sure the targa will operate the same way as the cabrio i.e. the rear glass window will sit fixed on top of the clam and lift up and back at the same time. The targa forward roof section is effectively the same panel used by the cabrio version so I should imagine it will fold back in the same manner and stow away under the glass covered clam.

     

    ISUK:  I will like to have what you have described confirmed by others.  I didn't think the Targa roof section would be canvas with a titanium back plate? Where did you hear that?  What about the Roll Bar?  Will the center section disappear when the Targa roof is 'stored'?.  It will look rather odd if this Roll Bar is missing the top section when in an open position.  Perhaps others can comment and add responses to all the questions I posed in my original post above!  Thank you in advance!

    Saludos, Eduardo (Carmel, CA)


    Re: 991 Targa Revisited

    If this is true, what's the difference between the cabrio and targa? Just the looks of the roof?

    How stupid this might be!? Why not just providing a removable roof panel? They will do that with much more expensive car (918)...


    Re: 991 Targa Revisited

    Eduardo,
    It is only now that I realise that the upright part of the rollbar (22/21) remains attached to the rear windscreen/decklid when the mechanism opens. I have to admit that I don't really get the horizontal part (24/21) and the movement of it indicated by the red arrow...
    Could it be that the mechanism of opening and closing is only partly automatic, and that yo have to manually put back the horizontal part or so? yes


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: 991 Targa Revisited

    The "targa" panel section is already on the cabrio. Underneath the fabric cover is a hard composite roof panel. From the drawings it appears that the top of the roof bar telescopes upwards to let the targa panel slide beneath it then retract rearwards to stow under the clam behind the rear seats as it does on the cabrio. The roof bar will then presumably close back down leaving the original roll hoop look. The parts of the roll bar that appear to remain attached to the rear glass are likely just the decorative side panels that hide the hydraulic mechanism, that allows the top of the bar to lift up and down, when the roof cycle of opening or closing is completed.

    It should be quite a cost effective system to engineer as it appears to use the same Z frame roof scissor frame section and same rear clam opening mechanism as the cabrio. Presumably the rear glass window will have to be made from fairly lightweight material (polycarbonate perhaps?). The lifting targa roof bar is the new and more complex part of the design.

    I've done a quick sketch to show this movement.

    Closed

    1344240223669Mechanism 1.JPG

    Opening

    1344240237425Mechanism 3.JPG

     

     

     


    Re: 991 Targa Revisited

    ... why someone who want a feeling of an open car buys such Targa instead of Cabriolet?

    I never will understand the advantage of this system ...... 

     

    Best

    Gregor


    --

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    BMW X6 4.0d * Mini Cooper S Cabrio * 991 (02/2013)


    Re: 991 Targa Revisited

    Sidney:

    ... why someone who want a feeling of an open car buys such Targa instead of Cabriolet?

    I never will understand the advantage of this system ...... 


    Perhaps because "Targa" is something special and typical for a 911? Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: 991 Targa Revisited

    Targa florio history;)


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: 991 Targa Revisited

    Sidney:

    ... why someone who want a feeling of an open car buys such Targa instead of Cabriolet?

    I never will understand the advantage of this system ...... 

    More coupe feel when closed and more security from vanadalism and theft. However, we must remember that the original 911 Targa existed when there was no 911 Cabrio. Presumably, it attracted its own following and it continued after the first Cabrio in the early 80s.

    Nowadays, it a way for Porsche to differentiate their product further at little extra development cost.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 991 Targa Revisited

    1344263475105DSC03307.JPG

    Thanks ISUK for taking the time to draw this for us.  Certainly plausible.  Seems very complex  and holds the possibility of producing countless rattles if any of the parts become loose or maladjusted.  Keep in mind that in the US it might be impossible to provide a polycarbonate (Plexiglass) for the Rear Glass Window due to DOT regulations.  We never got the rear Plexiglass on the gt3 RS's.  So that weight savings might not be possible on this market.  And it will be too large of a structure to do in Plexiglass without having the real possibilities of scratching that  delicate surface when cleaning.  Personally, I don't think the Targa Roof would be done in the same materials as the current 991 Cabrio.  I doubt it will be a canvas top with a titanium panel underneath!  I see it as a solid piece of carbon fiber or aluminium, a modern equivalent to the original vinyl covered removable roof (which 'accordions' shut into a compact structure you would store in your front trunk).  Also don't think it would be glass because it would be difficult to provide for the required  'sunscreen' should it be clear through, especially if its going to be moved around and stored in the back!  

    Reginos, I am well aware of the history of Targas in the Porsche model range.   My first Porsche in 1973, right after I graduated from college, was a used 1968 Soft Rear 912 Targa!  I currently own a 'Crystal Blue' 1970 911E Targa with the glass back (see attached photo). So I am very familiar with the Targa's peculiarities and considered myself a real devotee of this model!  Thus, I am hopeful that this version of a Targa in the 991 version is very successful!  I am just trying to make sense of how the mechanicals will work!

    Saludos, Eduardo (Carmel, CA)

     


    Re: 991 Targa Revisited

    Eduardo, very nicely kept car and beautiful garage....love the memorabilia!!


    Re: 991 Targa Revisited

    Z356:
    1344263475105DSC03307.JPG

     

     LOVE this colour!! And it sits well in a 70's 911 Smiley

    My first 911 was also a Targa......a 911SC in silver from 1977 which I loved tremendously, but wow, I love this colour even more!!


    Re: 991 Targa Revisited

    Hi Eduardo,

    great Targa you have there. Here is mine :Silver, 1972  2.4 S Targa. I am also a big fan of Targas. The Coupe is bit stiffer and more precise to drive but I am very happy with the Targa handling, always fun .

    Btw , great post on PTS on Teamspeed.

    Regards

    Alex

    P6250018[1].jpg


    --

    911 Club Coupe, 72' 911 Targa 2.4 S, 12' Audi S4 Avant


    Re: 991 Targa Revisited

    Yes, Targas have their special charm, especially the early ones!  There is an interesting story behind this 1970 911E Targa.  This car was painted at the factory with one of the most beautiful and 'rare' colors in Porsche's color history! Richard von Frankenberg, then editor of the Porsche house publication, wrote a very interesting  article re: MY1970 paint colors chosen by customers that model year.  It was published in Christophorus Issue No. 89 / Oct. of 1970. This was a unusual year for Porsche since it offered 30 paint color choices to its customers - 9 standard and 21 special colors!  In the article,  von Frankenberg revealed that less than 00.1 % of production that year were painted in this  unusual 'Crystal Blue' color!  With 15,749 units of 911 & 914-6 produced in total in that model  year, that works out to about 15 or 16 cars painted in this 'rare' color! I doubt many of those 15 or 16 'Crystal Blues' have survived to the present with their original paint intact like on this 1970 911E Targa! 

    http://www.early911sregistry.org/forums/showthread.php?50771-List-of-all-colors-delivered-in-1970-by/page2

    This car also distinguishes itself by being special ordered with factory air and full interior leather, both rare options back in those early 911 years!  The original owner was then PCA Zone 1 rep  Doug Troyer and his NJ licence plate read 'PCA - 911'.  Even in its infancy, this car was already gathering attention!  It was chosen in 1980 by the editors of the first all-Porsche US publication -  Gmund Magazine - as the cover shot for issue #4 and merited an article inside its pages!   That  is when I first learned of this car existence & I have been captivated by it ever since!  I finally met  its second owner - Terry Ritsos - at a Watkins Glen racetrack PCA event in 1982 & I  kept in touch with him all of these years.  In fact, we roomed together at the '86 PCA Parade in Portland, Maine where this car placed First in its Class at that year's Parade Concours.  I finally persuaded my  friend Terry to pass on this beautiful Targa to me in 2008, some 22 years later!  To this day I keep  in regular contact with this Targa's original owners.   And I credit them fully for any current good fortune at my last two showings at Parades since they were the visionaries that kept this 1970  911E Targa in such pristine condition since it was delivered new back in 1970!  Without their efforts at preservation since day one, none of this would have been possible!  For example, Mr. Troyer never folded the original Targa roof panel in his car.  Instead, he bought a second one to use for daily use.  And its two subsequent owners followed that sacred 'tradition'.  Thus, there are very few Targa's left in the world still with an original Targa top since these rarely survived intact.  This is one of them! 

    I have shown this car twice since I became its custodian in 2008.  I took to the '09 Parade in Keystone, Colorado. There it won both First in Class & First in Division in the Preservation Group.  It  was then re-judged for over-all Preservation Group, but lost to a very original 928!  This past July, I drove it again to another PCA Parade.  This one was held at Salt Lake City!  The car did very well in its class at the Concours but that was not the surprising news.  This 'Crystal Blue' Targa caught the eye of the Porsche family judges as they strolled through a remote side field of the State of Utah Capitol grounds where it had been positioned by the concours organizers. This panel of judges - Doctor Wolfgang Porsche, Hans Peter Porsche and young Ferdinand Porsche (son of Wolfgang), and Detlev von Platen (CEO of PCNA - selected this car of all at the Concours for the coveted & highly prestigious 'Judges' Choice' Award!  It is a great honor for the car and also for its two previous owners who preserved this 55K original miles car in such excellent unrestored condition for all of these years!

    Saludos, Eduardo (Carmel, CA)DSC03118.JPG


    Re: 991 Targa Revisited

    The dealer principal at my OPC has given me a hint that there may be a turbo targa model this time...


    Re: 991 Targa Revisited

    GT3ZZZ:

    The dealer principal at my OPC has given me a hint that there may be a turbo targa model this time...

    Interesting. There have been rumours floating around about a 991 Turbo targa for a while. On this forum too Smiley


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: 991 Targa Revisited

    Great story and beautiful car Z356!


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: 991 Targa Revisited

    Aside from the very subjective "look" or appearance of the car -- very different from the coupe or cab because of the wide roll bar -- the rear window becomes, for me, the biggest objective difference and the biggest plus. I've driven a 991 coupe and have sat in a 991 cab: frankly the view out the rear window is way too narrow for my comfort; I like the very wide view from the curved rear window. Until Porsche replaces the rear-view mirror with a full-time camera, I want to be able to see as much as possible from that little mirror. My first three Porsches were Targas, my current one is a 997 coupe. 


     
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