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    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    ALDO:
    SciFrog:

    On the segment of the turbo and turbo S, FF 612 Rapide, also the Bentley is probably close enough in term of emotions (not sportier, different).

    On the lower segment? Cayenne and Macan and some Audis/Mercedes SUVs are close enough and much more practical and way cheaper, and the Tesla Model S is so innovative it doesn't matter if it is not as sporty with its massive torque. RC seems to say the RS6 is also better...

    My question was sportier in the same class.  A FF is not even in the same class, it is much more expensive and at the rear no way as an adult you can enjoy a long journey. Rapide is by far less sportier. Bentley flying spur is a real fat pig compared to Panamera. Tesla S has huge torque but also a very cheap interior and at the end a different car. 

    M6 gran coupé is smaller, RS6 or RS7 are both one class lower.

    I am not talking about a better or sportier car. Just a car in the same class.

    Maybe I should clarify a bit, the Panamera is not sporty enough for a pricy Porsche sedan. Some of the mentioned car are not as sporty but they give a better ownership experience. By being boring and so expensive the Panamera puts itself in direct competition with all these cars, sporty or not, and in competition with high end SUVs.


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    SciFrog:

    On the segment of the turbo and turbo S, FF 612 Rapide, also the Bentley is probably close enough in term of emotions (not sportier, different).

    On the lower segment? Cayenne and Macan and some Audis/Mercedes SUVs are close enough and much more practical and way cheaper, and the Tesla Model S is so innovative it doesn't matter if it is not as sporty with its massive torque. RC seems to say the RS6 is also better...

    The RS6 Performance is quite amazing and in Germany, you can get it with the 705 hp (and more...) ABT tuning and full factory warranty. Even for leases through official Audi dealerships, which is quite amazing. Audi Sport also offers the Akrapovic exhaust as an option, a bit on the expensive side (9k) but you don't loose your warranty.

    I don't think that you can compare the RS6 with a Tesla S, despite the powerful (electric) engine of the Tesla. The Tesla weights a bit more than the RS6 and the chassis is...how to put it...not exactly the sportiest. Of course if fuel economy is your major concern, the RS6 is the wrong car.

    If money isn't really an issue, the Ferrari FF is of course a wonderful family car choice.

    I do not like the RS7 (that rear looks like a sad face...says my daughter Smiley).


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    ALDO:
    Milanno:
    ALDO:

    M6 gran coupé is smaller, RS6 or RS7 are both one class lower.

     

    Well, then Panamera has no competition Smiley 

    You are right Smiley - I mean I am right Smiley

    If you are searching for the sportiest car in the Panamera class (S, 7, A8, ..) then it is the Panamera. Again, I never said it is the best car in this class or any other class.

    It is too boring to justify the high price and losing the 5th seating position and the luggage space.


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    RC:
    SciFrog:

    On the segment of the turbo and turbo S, FF 612 Rapide, also the Bentley is probably close enough in term of emotions (not sportier, different).

    On the lower segment? Cayenne and Macan and some Audis/Mercedes SUVs are close enough and much more practical and way cheaper, and the Tesla Model S is so innovative it doesn't matter if it is not as sporty with its massive torque. RC seems to say the RS6 is also better...

    The RS6 Performance is quite amazing and in Germany, you can get it with the 705 hp (and more...) ABT tuning and full factory warranty. Even for leases through official Audi dealerships, which is quite amazing. Audi Sport also offers the Akrapovic exhaust as an option, a bit on the expensive side (9k) but you don't loose your warranty.

    I don't think that you can compare the RS6 with a Tesla S, despite the powerful (electric) engine of the Tesla. The Tesla weights a bit more than the RS6 and the chassis is...how to put it...not exactly the sportiest. Of course if fuel economy is your major concern, the RS6 is the wrong car.

    In the USA many people in that segment will associate sportiness with acceleration, and the Tesla S will hold its own. Plus it is cool. The market share the Tesla S has in the luxury sedan segment is staggering for such a new company with somewhat lower interior quality.


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    The Tesla S is a "cool" car, the novelty factor and of course the "green" image play a huge role in this...I think.

    Tesla just needs to be careful not to get too comfortable with what they have achieved so far because the competition isn't sleeping. Even if there is no real competitor right now, this could change pretty fast and maybe faster than Tesla is aware of. Elon Musk is a dynamic and highly intelligent business person but I hope for his own sake that he expects the worst and keeps planning for the future. angry If someone is hoping for a big car company to buy Tesla, think again. Tesla is already way too expensive and not profitable (yet).

    I know I may be a little biased right now but I really started to like Audi because I never actually cared about Audi but just recently realized that they have grown out of that "more luxurious and slightly better Volkswagen" image in Germany. Actually, I think they offer the sportiest models of all German car manufacturers right now, minus Porsche of course.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Can't wait to put my hands on what Porsche can do to compete directly with Tesla. A Macan EV would be just awesome as could be a Mercedes GLS...


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Apple should buy Tesla....and let Elon be CEO. Sorry just doing my bit to keep thread off topic.. angry


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E & 991.2 GT3 on order


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    IMG_0817.JPGRC:
    ALDO:
    SciFrog:

    Well so far the old design looked much more interesting. Anyhow that's not what matters as long as don't don't allow 3 people to sit in the back, provide a sportier drive feel and drop massively the price of a normally optioned car...

    The Tesla model S is killing that segment anywaySmiley

    You can order the option for the 2+1 rear bench. 

    Sportier feeling in this class? Let me think who provides this? Mercedes S-class - no, BMW 7-series - no, Audi A8 - no, Tesla S - no - so what did you find drives sportier? 

     

    I had the chance to test-drive the latest S8 Plus. It feels quite sporty, believe me. Smiley I don't know how fast this thing is on the track but it felt sportier than my previous Panamera Turbo S. Can't say much about the latest BMW 7series, haven't driven it yet. The latest Mercedes S63 AMG? Forget it, you're right...not sporty at all.

    S8 Plus happens to be my current DD.

    After 3800 miles in 45 days all I can say is that I don't feel like I am suffering after 991TTS and E63S.

    Plan to keep it at least 2 years (which would be a new record for me).IMG_0815.JPG1465865805255IMG_0815.JPG


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    absent:
    IMG_0817.JPGRC:
    ALDO:
    SciFrog:

    Well so far the old design looked much more interesting. Anyhow that's not what matters as long as don't don't allow 3 people to sit in the back, provide a sportier drive feel and drop massively the price of a normally optioned car...

    The Tesla model S is killing that segment anywaySmiley

    You can order the option for the 2+1 rear bench. 

    Sportier feeling in this class? Let me think who provides this? Mercedes S-class - no, BMW 7-series - no, Audi A8 - no, Tesla S - no - so what did you find drives sportier? 

     

    I had the chance to test-drive the latest S8 Plus. It feels quite sporty, believe me. Smiley I don't know how fast this thing is on the track but it felt sportier than my previous Panamera Turbo S. Can't say much about the latest BMW 7series, haven't driven it yet. The latest Mercedes S63 AMG? Forget it, you're right...not sporty at all.

    S8 Plus happens to be my current DD.

    After 3800 miles in 45 days all I can say is that I don't feel like I am suffering after 991TTS and E63S.

    Plan to keep it at least 2 years (which would be a new record for me).IMG_0815.JPG1465865805255IMG_0815.JPG

    I enjoyed that S8 Plus I testdrove more than the Panamera Turbo S I had and this should say a lot about the S8. 

    I get it, the Panamera is kind of the Rolls Royce of the sporty sedans out there, a car every sporty sedan owner may want to own at some point but I think it is over-rated. Audi has caught up pretty well with the new S8 Plus and even the RS6 Performance and RS7 Performance (not a fan of that sad rear...) are quite good.

    The next Panamera generation, soon to be available, will be of course better and sportier than the old one but you'll see...the competition will not stand much behind, especially those who are actually in the same company (Audi, Bentley...).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    New A8 will be even closer to upcoming Panamera, because they will share same platform. Audi made huge progress for past 10 years, so cars like current S8 Plus, RS6 and RS7 are bright results of that hard work. 

     


    --

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Milanno:

    New A8 will be even closer to upcoming Panamera, because they will share same platform. Audi made huge progress for past 10 years, so cars like current S8 Plus, RS6 and RS7 are bright results of that hard work. 

     

    I agree. I just wish Porsche would use the R8/Huracan platform or whatever comes next for their own mid engined super sports car. Right now, it seems this project has kind of slipped away into the (far?) future...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    RC:

    ... The next Panamera generation, soon to be available, will be of course better and sportier than the old one but you'll see...the competition will not stand much behind, especially those who are actually in the same company (Audi, Bentley...).

    Hopefully it won't have a display sticking up in the middle of the dash. I hate this design, even if it does retract. It's like they forgot about the display when they were designing the interior, and then just stuck it in in the only place they could think of.


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    apias:
    RC:

    ... The next Panamera generation, soon to be available, will be of course better and sportier than the old one but you'll see...the competition will not stand much behind, especially those who are actually in the same company (Audi, Bentley...).

    Hopefully it won't have a display sticking up in the middle of the dash. I hate this design, even if it does retract. It's like they forgot about the display when they were designing the interior, and then just stuck it in in the only place they could think of.

    No, no Audi or Mercedes-like tablet display Smiley but it is kind of in the middle but seems to be integrated. 

    The Audi solution is actually cool because it "pops" out whenever you need/want it and in combination with a virtual cockpit, it is just perfect. Speaking of virtual cockpit, the Panamera display is similar but not 100% digital, the rev counter is analogue. Clever idea but I like the virtual cockpit better because you could basically offer different speedo styles to choose and with a fixed rev counter, this is not really possible.

    The sensor buttons work, according to "someone" Smiley pretty well but to be honest, I am skeptic. I had such buttons on my Escalade rental car (2016 model) and they sucked. Porsche uses a more advanced variant, apparently and similar to the 918 but I am still not a believer, even if they (apparently) offer tactile feedback.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    I believe Whoopsy has indicated that he hates the 918 touch "buttons". This is clearly a case of form following fashion, at the expense of function.

    As to being retractable, a) most people are going to end up just leaving it out all the time, and b) that's all well and good till there is an issue and it is stuck in or out.


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Yes, I absolutely hated them. 

    They looked super super nice, the touch function works perfectly, it registers right away, but the problem is that one has to LOOK at the panel to find where to touch. 

    I know my car pretty well, and where the different functions are relatively on the panel, but I still have to look to find the 'button'. Don't have such problem in the GT3RS, I don't have to look to find where Tuner, Media, Nav, Map buttons are, I can do it just by feel.


    --

     

     


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    I hated them on the Escalade too...


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    If the shooting break looks anything like this, I'll get on my knees and beg Porsche to PLEASE DON'T MAKE THIS CAR!!!mail


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    I'll join you!!! nomail


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Crappy photoshop... 


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Well yes, but still offensively ugly.....


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    while its porsche dna, i think its silly to keep the analog rev-counter. it should just be a display with an encircled rev-counter in the middle. sometimes forcing it to stick to some kind of heritage just does not make any sense.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

     Porsche has made significant progress over the last 10 years as well. Audi A8 is a beefed up box body sedan,  Panamera's design and capabilities are in a different league. One may dislike the design but it is certainly unique  and even daring. Let's wait for true road test comparisons to evaluate the sportiness of these cars.


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    It all depends how you look at it. Business oriented buyers appreciate S8 Plus discreet appearance, while they have performance figures that are higher then, lets say, Panamera Turbo S. On other hand, Panamera is not best example of amazing design. You really need to be huge Porsche fan to drop almost 200k Euros for car that is visually known for ugly rear bump. On top of that you are not fastest one on Autobahn among competition.


    --

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    S8 Plus is an absolute steal in US, still the same price as the regular S8 (phased out from US), with all options, incl. CCBs and matte paint ($6k), is still about $50k lower then comparable Panamera Turbo S.


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    SciFrog:

    I hated them on the Escalade too...

    The worst... 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Wonderbar:

     Porsche has made significant progress over the last 10 years as well. Audi A8 is a beefed up box body sedan,  Panamera's design and capabilities are in a different league. One may dislike the design but it is certainly unique  and even daring. Let's wait for true road test comparisons to evaluate the sportiness of these cars.

    I hate to say it Sydney but the latest Audi S8 Plus is an amazing ride and it still uses the old platform as far as I know.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    So when do we expect the press embargo to be off??
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    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Just found pretty nice render kiss


    --

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    The headlights are too big and look a bit different in the real thing.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    A little birdie said in about 10 days we will know more.


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