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    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    NIck, Mike, thanks for your response. Both reasons make sense.

    Grant I didn't ask you because you're a manual man and no way would you buy a track PDK car.indecision

    My dealer wants to buy my RS for more than what I paid for it but not by much. They implied I could grab one of the three RS's they ordered. All spec'ed by the dealership and of course fully loaded with PTS, Weissach and ceramic brakes as part of the package. Then they would add the ADM of $150,000.

    I went home and asked my wife to take a long detailed look at me and tell me if I appear to be stupid. mail 

     


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    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    nberry:

    Grant I didn't ask you because you're a manual man and no way would you buy a track PDK car.indecision

    Right, still a diehard manual man.  Smiley 

    But if I could get an RS at MSRP for ED before trading to a Manual 992.2 GT3, I surely would.  A month at the Ring with that car would be much fun, I'm sure.

    Shame that your old dealership contact can't help you.


    --

     

    22 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.9L Twin-Plug MFI Carbon Fiber replica. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi, 06 EVO9 with track mods

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    nberry:

    NIck, Mike, thanks for your response. Both reasons make sense.

    Grant I didn't ask you because you're a manual man and no way would you buy a track PDK car.indecision

    My dealer wants to buy my RS for more than what I paid for it but not by much. They implied I could grab one of the three RS's they ordered. All spec'ed by the dealership and of course fully loaded with PTS, Weissach and ceramic brakes as part of the package. Then they would add the ADM of $150,000.

    I went home and asked my wife to take a long detailed look at me and tell me if I appear to be stupid. mail 

     

     

    Wonder whose name(s) from the database they used to order those Smiley

    Perhaps PCNA should hear about that. 

    Maybe go back and bargain with say 50k on top of your taxed in price of your original RS as trade in, have a new RS in YOUR spec at MSRP and you won't report them to PCNA for investigation. 

    You a lawyer, there had to be some law(s) broken somewhere, least of which would be circumventing Porsche's own ordering guidelines. GT cars has to be sold orders, aka can't be a dealer spec order to be put on the showroom. 

    Their excuse predictably will be oh the client changed his mind, well that's going to be easily verifiable by contacting the client that 'ordered' the car as ask if that's true. 

     

     

     

     


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    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    Haha it's just dark purple, very understated compared to your Lizard Green.......Smiley

    Smiley

    not about the understatement the "problem"...but is that i never see a race car in that colour,and i deleted the S/T allocation...

    The possibility to have the right colour on the wrong car is highSmiley

     


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    Cayenne Turbo GT


    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    Whoopsy:GT cars has to be sold orders, aka can't be a dealer spec order to be put on the showroom.

     

    Must be sold orders...

    In Italy there is a car dealer (not official) that has on the showroom three(yes 3, not 1) 992GT3RS brand new at 150K euro over list...and i must pray my dealer where i buy Porsches from 25 years to give me an allocation,with all the story of my life.Smiley


    --

    Cayenne Turbo GT


    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    Darius: Great choices you have. blush  I understand you want the wing. Specially around those roundabouts outside your town   

    The RS as such presence, each time you will  open your garage door you will be so happy. 

    Can't advice on the color. I will not get the 992.1 Gt3 RS, but I have imagined it so many times. White with green. Green with  black.  Or that new light grey with red rims (this one have a seem and it looked very very good in real life )

    And this one looks good too. Rims are dark blue. Was parked at Manthey.

    IMG_3068.jpg
    IMG_3067.jpg


    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    nberry:

    Nick, I find it interesting that you, Mike and Grnil all track people have not bought the 992GT3RS. It's suppose to be the ultimate track car. yes

    As Nick has stated. For me the new RS is too much of a car at the moment. I love it , love watching at it and would probably love driving it, but, outside of track, I do also lots of road driving and for that I find the car a bit too much. Maybe I will be used to it by the .2 generation. I also find the price to be becoming an issue. 

    4RS is the perfect car for mountain and any other spirited drives on public roads as it is lively at nearly any speed. 

    On track, it is not the best in terms of lap speed. Only in the hands of very skilled mid engine drivers. 

    Maybe I must consider the GT3 


    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    Gnil:

    Darius: Great choices you have. blush  I understand you want the wing. Specially around those roundabouts outside your town  

    tooop,your dear friends at the gas station will be happy to see that wingSmiley

    btw i love the wrap look of the red one also of Grello...but 17k euros for a wrap it is a bit too much expensiveSmiley


    --

    Cayenne Turbo GT


    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    Gnil:

    Darius: Great choices you have. blush  I understand you want the wing. Specially around those roundabouts outside your town   

    The RS as such presence, each time you will  open your garage door you will be so happy. 

    Can't advice on the color. I will not get the 992.1 Gt3 RS, but I have imagined it so many times. White with green. Green with  black.  Or that new light grey with red rims (this one have a seem and it looked very very good in real life )

    And this one looks good too. Rims are dark blue. Was parked at Manthey.

    IMG_3068.jpg
    IMG_3067.jpg

    Bit of a mismatch with these blue wheels imho, no?


    --

    1988 Peugeot 205 Rallye / 2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS  / 2022 BMW M5 CS


    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    Yes, Its crossed over to clown car spec.  Red, White, Yellow. Blue.  My eyes!!


    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    Itsme:
    RC

    :...

    We need to adopt to climate change, this is the most viable way and probably the cheapest one as well. 
    ...

    Adopting to climate change sounds easy when you live in the south of Germany.  If you live on the coast with rising sea levels, it sounds different

    Nobody said it is easy...

    I don't have children. If I had children, I would probably do more to prevent the mass migrations that are necessary for the survival of the people concerned.

    Mass migration is a huge problem as well and probably the reason why the political spectrum in Europe (and the US) will be radicalized more and more... Dangerous.

    Doing nothing at all is certainly worse than trying something

    True but at what cost, especially if it is almost 99.9% certain that it doesn't change anything if only a few are doing something. 

    Technology does the trick: Climate Engineering and especially SRM. 
    If someone argues that this means messing around with nature...well...newsflash...we already do that in so many ways.

    We need to stop thinking that we (the West) can change the world alone, this ain't going to happen. Neither regarding the climate nor regarding political systems/human rights. 

    Making people poor and making them suffer/unhappy (West, cost of anti climate change measures) will only allow radical forces to get the upper hand. Just look at the AfD in Germany or Trump (not saying Republicans, I am a conservative at heart) in the US. Extreme people always cause extreme reactions and sometimes it ends in disaster.

    What is going on in Germany right now, politically, will have a huge impact on the whole EU.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    BONES:

    Yes, Its crossed over to clown car spec.  Red, White, Yellow. Blue.  My eyes!!

    It's probably a wrap.


    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    Porker:

    Bit of a mismatch with these blue wheels imho, no?


    Exactly my thoughts. SmileySmiley


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    Gauss:
    BONES:

    Yes, Its crossed over to clown car spec.  Red, White, Yellow. Blue.  My eyes!!

    It's probably a wrap.

    Yes..is an “official” wrap…you can choose it on the configurator.


    --

    Cayenne Turbo GT


    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    Ah. No excuse then if it was deliberately configured that way ­čśů


    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    Nick, I can't get the quote function to work. 

    My question is "Are you confident that Porsche policies regarding GT orders require a buyers name in the data base other than the dealership?"

     


    --

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    nberry:

    Nick, I can't get the quote function to work. 

    My question is "Are you confident that Porsche policies regarding GT orders require a buyers name in the data base other than the dealership?"

     

     

    Yes. It always has been since like forever. If one takes a factory tour in Zuffenhausen, the tour guide will routinely go look at the order/build sheet of the cars on the line and explain where that car is going or if it's a GT car, he/she will mention the fact that that's a sold order going to another happy client, as oppose to a C2 that follows that will just be going to a dealer showroom somewhere. 

    Regular production cars, like Macon Taycan, 718s 911s can be a dealer ordered car for stock purposes. GT cars however has to a sold order, aka with non dealer customer information. The order sheets are marked up differently between stock orders and sold orders. 

    Of course certain individuals that owned a dealership will have a dealer affiliation attached to their name, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out something is wrong when John Smith here that owns a Porsche dealership just ordered 3 GT3RS with PTS or whatever fully loaded car. 

    Porsche AG, PCNA, maybe not have the 'complete' list of clients from the dealers however, they only have the names which the dealers submitted to them from purchases. 

    Porsche been selling cars for a long time, and only fully computerized not too long ago, so it may not have the full picture of their clients yet. There are still plenty in PCNA's database that don't do emails or what nots, which makes it harder for PCNA to actually verify purchases. But it's not impossible, PCNA can always ask the selling dealer to submit more information. 


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    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    Nick, thanks.


    --

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    Whoopsy:
    nberry:

    Nick, I can't get the quote function to work. 

    My question is "Are you confident that Porsche policies regarding GT orders require a buyers name in the data base other than the dealership?"

     

     

    Yes. It always has been since like forever. If one takes a factory tour in Zuffenhausen, the tour guide will routinely go look at the order/build sheet of the cars on the line and explain where that car is going or if it's a GT car, he/she will mention the fact that that's a sold order going to another happy client, as oppose to a C2 that follows that will just be going to a dealer showroom somewhere. 

    Regular production cars, like Macon Taycan, 718s 911s can be a dealer ordered car for stock purposes. GT cars however has to a sold order, aka with non dealer customer information. The order sheets are marked up differently between stock orders and sold orders. 

    Of course certain individuals that owned a dealership will have a dealer affiliation attached to their name, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out something is wrong when John Smith here that owns a Porsche dealership just ordered 3 GT3RS with PTS or whatever fully loaded car. 

    Porsche AG, PCNA, maybe not have the 'complete' list of clients from the dealers however, they only have the names which the dealers submitted to them from purchases. 

    Porsche been selling cars for a long time, and only fully computerized not too long ago, so it may not have the full picture of their clients yet. There are still plenty in PCNA's database that don't do emails or what nots, which makes it harder for PCNA to actually verify purchases. But it's not impossible, PCNA can always ask the selling dealer to submit more information. 

    Makes a lot of sense that given the demand for GT cars, dealerships are not allowed to blanquet order them to sell them preconfigured on the showroom floor and take slots away from actual waiting customers, but I'm wondering.... if a dealer orders a GT car for the showroom in the name of an unsuspecting dealership customer in their database and when the car arrives it gets "resold" with 0Km to someone else with a nice markup for the dealer, does Porsche think that the unsuspecting customer, who's name was used to order the car, has flipped the GT car?


    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    Or the customer changed his mind. or for one reason or another can't take delivery. That's the easy bit on excuses.

     


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    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    I communicated with my Porsche sales rep regarding the dealership spec'ing every GT car and subsequently getting buyers to bid on them. Here is his response:

    "We're offered allocations on GT cars based on our prior sales volume of a particular model and that we have actual demand for the car when we place an order but they don't oversee who actually creates the build code. Porsche has records of when the cars actually sell so they know the cars aren't just sitting in the showroom. What Porsche does not want is a dealer to receive allocations and place orders on cars that just sit in showrooms for long periods of time without a buyer. They have visibility and know the exact sales turnaround time for all cars. Also our Porsche rep was here yesterday when you sent the email and we directly asked him about the ordering process and he confirmed to us just as I stated in my above thoughts. We're not required to presell cars and it's not a problem to determine the buyer after the cars arrives.

    As of right now it doesn't look like our process will be changing."

     


    --

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    Some important details are missing. And your guy there is avoiding direct answers.

    When placing an order for a car, there is a few steps. 

    One contact the dealer about a car, perhaps just to get on a list, or with an actual build like a Porsche Code. 

    The dealer takes it, but that doesn't mean that order is in the official Porsche system. No orders are official until it is entered into the computer, and the very first step is 'Demand Order'. They aren't actual build slots. It's just a pool of demands that Porsche sees before assigning allocations. All dealers are suppose to enter all orders into the system as demand orders, and not just keep an off site 'wait list', dealers don't do that cause once it's in the system, they cannot fudge anything anymore without being noticed by Porsche, like moving a potential buyer up or down the order list. 

    A Demand Order can turned into an actual Sales Order if an allocation is assigned to that particular demand. Doesn't mean all demands will be filled however. 

    The Demand Order, however, already have a customer name attached to it. Porsche CAN SEE who the order is for even if just a demand. And the Demand Order will already be showing up on a customer's Porsche account and the Porsche phone app. This is the new system now. My Dakar is getting built next month, and my app is showing a different screen now, but after I 'placed' my order with my dealer, I already got an email notification and an app notification that Porsche has noted my interest and waiting for an allocation to be assigned. I got another update and status change when an allocation is assigned to my order. Now it has switched to scheduled for production. 

    Yes, Porsche can see in the system when a car is ordered, built, shipped, arrived at dealer and when it is being registered and to whom, but that means absolutely nothing. 

    If a car is ordered with bogus information, when asked, the dealer can always say oh the buyer is away, the buyers requires more time, the buyer this the buyer that. That car isn't 'ordered' for the showroom, it is a 'sold' order to a client that hasn't taken delivery yet, but who is also an imaginary entity. This is especially easy for the West Coast, where we have A LOT of mainland Chinese buyers, and at times they are stuck in China and can't get back for months at a time. So saying the buyer is away and can't take delivery is a very VALID excuse. Porsche is used to that. 

    He isn't wrong is saying future GT allocations are based on previous sales records, the more a dealer can sell the more they are able to get more. It's like government budgets, if a department can't spend all the money budgeted, they are getting less the year after. 

    We're not required to presell cars and it's not a problem to determine the buyer after the cars arrives.

     

    This last sentence. Of course they aren't required to presell cars, every GT car allocation on every dealer have a wait list, they literally sells themselves. Like I said, all GT cars are sold orders, a customer name has to be attached to that order, unlike say Macans and Panameras or regular 911s where dealers can order stock cars. 

    I have been dealing with Porsche dealers for 20 years, I have a very good relationship with the GMs (well I think they fear me more than anything cause they know if they cross me I am complaining directly to Germany) and they are very frank with how the process work from the beginning to the end. Also helps that I have a relationship with Zuffenhausen and gets to talk to to them about the whole process. And I know a few dealer principals from the 918 connection and see it from their perspective. 


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    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    Nick, interesting comments. My question is if Porsche's only concern is not to have cars sitting in showrooms unsold, how is it that having a dealer spec the car, delivered to the dealership and effort is made to sell it is better and faster than a buyer preordering the car and taking delivery?

    My take on this is Porsche doesn't care. surprise

    BTW, after watching the video on Rennlist comparing the 991.2  GT3RS to the 992 GT3RS I lost interest in the car especially at the price point dealers are selling it for.


    --

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    No manufacturers wants to see their car sit unsold on showrooms, period. 

    how is it that having a dealer spec the car, delivered to the dealership and effort is made to sell it is better and faster than a buyer preordering the car and taking delivery

    GT cars are sold orders, which mean the car IS sold before the chassis even enters the production hall. Can't be selling a car quicker than that right? Also the buyer can specify exactly what they want on the car. 

    A dealer specced car order with bogus customer information on the other hand are just loaded with juicy profit options for the dealer, those options may not benefit the eventual buyer at all. And that car isn't actually 'sold' until a buyer walks in and pay. How would this be 'better' and 'faster'. Another thing is, if a dealer wants to protect their 'fake agent', they can delay changing the registration of ownership of the car to the proper buyer, thus avoiding their 'fake agent' to be blocked by Porsche as a flipper. This benefits no one except the dealer itself. 

    You US dealers have way too much power because of how they lobbied to have the laws written in their favour. Porsche's hands are tied in the US market because of that, there is really only so much they can do and the dealers have numerous ways to side step. 

     


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    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    nberry:

    I communicated with my Porsche sales rep regarding the dealership spec'ing every GT car and subsequently getting buyers to bid on them. Here is his response:

    "We're offered allocations on GT cars based on our prior sales volume of a particular model and that we have actual demand for the car when we place an order but they don't oversee who actually creates the build code. Porsche has records of when the cars actually sell so they know the cars aren't just sitting in the showroom. What Porsche does not want is a dealer to receive allocations and place orders on cars that just sit in showrooms for long periods of time without a buyer. They have visibility and know the exact sales turnaround time for all cars. Also our Porsche rep was here yesterday when you sent the email and we directly asked him about the ordering process and he confirmed to us just as I stated in my above thoughts. We're not required to presell cars and it's not a problem to determine the buyer after the cars arrives.

    As of right now it doesn't look like our process will be changing."

     

    As I understand it from Nick's comments on how the order prices works, the dealer forgot to mention in that reply that Porsche does not allow the dealer to order pre spec'ed GT cars to sell on the showroom floor no matter how fast their turnaround, for the dealer to get those cars they have to put a customer's name on the order, they have to be sold cars, and they are not, that's the issue, they say they are not required to presell cars but seems that is only for non GT cars. Smells fishy...


    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    nberry:

    Nick, interesting comments. My question is if Porsche's only concern is not to have cars sitting in showrooms unsold, how is it that having a dealer spec the car, delivered to the dealership and effort is made to sell it is better and faster than a buyer preordering the car and taking delivery?

    My take on this is Porsche doesn't care. surprise

    BTW, after watching the video on Rennlist comparing the 991.2  GT3RS to the 992 GT3RS I lost interest in the car especially at the price point dealers are selling it for.

    Nick, just tell your dealer that you're taking a Taycan Turbo S from him as well (or any Taycan of HIS choice) at zero discount and maybe you get a GT3 RS allocation. Smiley Smiley Smiley This seems to be common practice at some dealers, at least in Europe.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    RC::

    Nick, just tell your dealer that you're taking a Taycan Turbo S from him as well (or any Taycan of HIS choice) at zero discount and maybe you get a GT3 RS allocation. Smiley Smiley Smiley This seems to be common practice at some dealers, at least in Europe.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), BMW Z4 M40i (2022), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)

     

    Smiley 100 % what the dealer in my region told me last week on the allocation of a dakar: Taycan + „whatever limited model“. By the way, some folks participating in the Porsche Club Cup in Germany told me, for what is worth, since they do not get an allocation anyway, they simply keep there 991 GT3 RS just for practicality…the frunk…Smiley

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    After watching this video I lost interest in the car. 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31kDt52nfuI&t=5s


    --

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    nberry:

    After watching this video I lost interest in the car. 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31kDt52nfuI&t=5s

    Why ??

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022

    I presently own a 991.2 GT3 RS very similar to the one in the video.

    I consider myself an average driver who loves those moments when I can exercise my car in situations other than track venues. I love my RS and it provides me with the entertainment I seek in owning a high performance car. It makes me a better driver because of the limits it's capable of. 

    I know the 992GT3RS is a superior car especially in a track environment assuming the track is long enough to accommodate the speeds required to initiate the downforce the 992RS can deliver. Additionally, the 992RS requires considerable driving skills in utilizing the downforce to maximize its performance. I don't have those skills.

    With all that said, I would consider by the car if it was sold to me at MSRP. I would view it as an investment that challenges me. Sadly, my dealer is asking $150,000 over MSRP. Given my limitations, it would be a foolish expenditure of money.Smiley

     


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    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


     
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