Crown

Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    Better be careful of attending track and club events!!!

    If you have an engine problem you will be in for it if you end up in arbitration.

    I went today with a friend and PCNA produced every autocross he went to , his final year end class finish, web site printouts of his times and even club magazine that showed him in 1st place.

    All this to claim he abused his car and to try to avoid a buyback of the car which pours white smoke after driving it hard and 2 RMS's so far.....

    I can see them saying the DME showing his overrevs but to bring all that PCA club data to the table is unreal!!!

    Buyers beware!

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    I think we discussed this topic in several threads, check the archives. Track racing may result in a warranty repairs denial in a worse case scenario like a broken engine, gearbox or for example a damaged roof mechanism on the Cab.
    No car manufacturers grants a warranty if you track race your car. Driver education events, including the Porsche driving classes are excluded.

    Everybody who seriously track races the car, including so called "club events" should be aware of the consequences regarding warranty.

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    Would not want to bet me on this would you? is an autocross like a DE event for PCA...

    The autocross is what they are claiming caused the abuse and the RMS issue and the plumes of white smoke that pour out of his tailpipes after a hard run..I have seen it and just sat in a meeting with PCNA reps claiming he abused it because of going to Porsche sponsored events....

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    What's the DME?

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    RC, I'm glad to hear porsche sees Driver Ed events in a different light re warranties.
    The DME is the onboard computer.

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    Quote:
    C4S Surgeon said:
    RC, I'm glad to hear porsche sees Driver Ed events in a different light re warranties.
    The DME is the onboard computer.



    oh come on. autocross or DE is no different. autocross is simply playing in a parking lot with cones. how pathetic of porsche after selling this crap under the "racing history" heritage BS. this is exactly why i don't go to PCA events. the local dealership here who is a big PCA sponsor and always has "eyes" at these things denied a friend's master cylinder claim simply because he had blue fluid and they claimed he must therefore be "tracking it". truth is though, unless you have a GT3 (or a CGT - i hope), you better just stick to driving these new (m96 and m97 equipped) pcars in the snow because their durability elsewhere is highly suspect as is porsche's confidence in them as evidenced by their honda like warranty attitude.

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    Quote:
    rss996 said:
    Better be careful of attending track and club events!!!

    If you have an engine problem you will be in for it if you end up in arbitration.

    I went today with a friend and PCNA produced every autocross he went to , his final year end class finish, web site printouts of his times and even club magazine that showed him in 1st place.

    All this to claim he abused his car and to try to avoid a buyback of the car which pours white smoke after driving it hard and 2 RMS's so far.....

    I can see them saying the DME showing his overrevs but to bring all that PCA club data to the table is unreal!!!

    Buyers beware!



    I wonder if your friend's atty inquired about these cars (note how interesting the web-site as relates Porsche links, etc):

    http://www.porschedriving.com/the_cars.asp

    which are driven hard on the track from the day the are put in service (adherence to break in would also be interesting given the pre-break in mileage on the ones I drove while attending), and then sold through Pcar dealers with full warranties remaining. That sure seems a bit disingenuous since the implication is that driving a 911 in a DE (much less all out track duty every mile of it's life) is somehow harder on the car and therefore reduces the life expectancy of some of it's parts (heck, the manuals even have specific language with regards to tracking them and warranty claims). I wonder if the subsequent buyer who buys from the buyer who bought from the Pcar dealer immediately after being thrashed (er: tracked hard from the day it was born) is frauded by the reduced life expectancy?

    All the literature for the classes is very Porsche like including liberal use of all logos, etc which we know Porsche would sue anyone over if not licensed. That licensing (or the lack thereof) along with Porsche's approval of that use together with all the other things Porsche (from Porsche itself) on the PDE website would leave PCNA and PAG (unsuccessfully) squirming to extricate themselves from the relationship and subsequent actions with repect to these cars being peddled through their own dealer network no less. Anyway, I'm sure a little discovery and a creative lawyering on this subject would make Porsche a little more amiable about standing behind their products in cases such as your friends.

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    Ben,

    You are right on...Anyone who tracks, de's or autocrosses is at risk of voiding their warranty...I saw it with my own 2 eyes yesterday in the hearing.

    All it takes is one innocent spin or miss shift by someone who is learing and down the road Porsche will use any data they have from PCA or whatever to void their warranty.

    I think the dealer has something to do with how much they turn a deaf ear or try to screw the customer.

    This is scary stuff and Porsche should be taken to task on it!

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    Like RC said, we have discussed this several times... what car maker honors warranty at the track? NONE.

    Unoficially though is another matter, many do respect warraty in tracked cars in some cases, and you are right rss996, this depends a lot on your dealer. Many 911 owners track their cars inspite the dealer knowing and warraty is still respected as long as the claim is reasonable and not realated to track abuse like a blown clucth from the drag strip.

    But officially tracking the car will void warranty in ALL cars, this should not be a surprice to anyone. You can't expect any maker to do this officially and put it in writing.

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    Carlos,

    There is a fine line here and the autocross is sponsored by the local dealer!!! The local dealer brings brand new cars down there to promote sales etc...

    If they find abuse then great it could happen anywhere, dont try to tell me its ok for PCNA to try to convince an arbitrator that someone is in the wrong for going to the autocross every month and hence abusing there car....They sponsor the damn thing!!!!!!!!!

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    I hear you rss996, but all companies do this, its not a Porsche thing.

    Voiding warraty repairs due to autocross sponsored by the dealer is really extreme, I agree, but this is not mainstream policy though, it depends in the particular case and your dealer and/or locar representative.

    As to the RMS leak being his fault for tracking it, thats complete BS. I don't know of the white smoke though.

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    You are right! I think it is a case of the dealer having it in for him because he wont believe their crap and just go away!

    Sad to see them atttack someone like that and link PCA events as a cause for his piece of crap eengine!

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    I agree, its sad. Unless the cause is due to tracking itself, like overreving it at the track, they should just disregard the tracking history and respect the warranty. The dealer and those responsible should remember that the fact that these cars are so appropiate for the track actually helps them sell the cars and put food on their table. I understand that no maker can officiall state that they warraty covers track events but unofficially they should behave better sometimes... unfortunately its a trend in the industry.

    He should post in the forums what dealership and if the locar PCNA rep is involved also or who ever else so that those in the area are warned.

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    Ben, I hear you, but from porsche's perspective, here's a guy asking for a buy back who has participated in motorsports competition(Autocross, unlike DE's which are not racing) with documented type 2 over-revs. I kind of see their point. I think he deserves a new engine after three RMS leaks, not a new car/80k. You can't have your cake and eat it too. BTW, he needs to find a new dealer, sounds like an ahole.
    Chris

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    Quote:
    rss996 said:
    Carlos,

    There is a fine line here and the autocross is sponsored by the local dealer!!! The local dealer brings brand new cars down there to promote sales etc...

    If they find abuse then great it could happen anywhere, dont try to tell me its ok for PCNA to try to convince an arbitrator that someone is in the wrong for going to the autocross every month and hence abusing there car....They sponsor the damn thing!!!!!!!!!



    Unfortunately in addition to sponsoring, the dealer has an employee who is an officer of the club and just happens to be the photographer for the club as well! Ooops.

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    Quote:
    C4S Surgeon said:
    Ben, I hear you, but from porsche's perspective, here's a guy asking for a buy back who has participated in motorsports competition(Autocross, unlike DE's which are not racing) with documented type 2 over-revs. I kind of see their point. I think he deserves a new engine after three RMS leaks, not a new car/80k. You can't have your cake and eat it too. BTW, he needs to find a new dealer, sounds like an ahole.
    Chris



    The type 2 over revs IS valid grounds for warranty denial IF the damage can be attributed to that sort of abuse. However, the RMS has NOTHING to do with a type 2 and this apparently (from the owner in question) is what has happened with the white smoke:

    from the owner on another board

    "After trying to get an explanation for a year, the PNA rep explained how hard cornering and high RPM dumps too much oil in the heads which causes the smoking . . . there's an add on pump assembly that can fix it . . . voids the warranty though I think.

    So you see this is a fundamental design flaw . . . Pioneer (Porsche dealer in San Diego) or any dealer couldn't fix the problem, so they started collecting data to use against me. I've had my POS F 308 for 10 years . . . I drive it identical to how I drive my 996. I would have welcomed somone from any dealer saying 'look at this print out, you need to adjust your driving style'. The PCNA rep also said the type 2 over rev's were 1000 rpm over red line . . . 8200 rpm . . . this might have been a flat out lie? ...

    So basically, the PCNA rep explained that the somking is due to an indadequate lubrication system for hard cornering , and the type 2 overrev is their way of 'not fixing it'."

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    You got it!

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    I don't get it, what exactly is a type 2 over rev and how can you over rev is there is an electronic cutoff? If I accidentally accelerate where I hit the cutoff during normal acceleration, is that grounds for non-warranty?

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    Quote:
    vtrader said:
    I don't get it, what exactly is a type 2 over rev and how can you over rev is there is an electronic cutoff? If I accidentally accelerate where I hit the cutoff during normal acceleration, is that grounds for non-warranty?



    a type 2 is achieved via missing a downshift (ie: 2nd instead of 4th) or spining the engine backwards (going into a spin without the clutch in). your example is a type 1 which won't be (valid) grounds for warranty denial unless they add it to a lot of other evidence to build a case you've abused the car.

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    rss996, which Porsche modell does your friend have?

    J.Seven

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    04 996 C2......

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    I am concerned with the aparent lack of durability these cars have. My 997S has been fine so far (actually I am loving it), but if PCNA expects me to drive it the way most people drive minivans they are nuts. These cars are promoted by the sales people as cars taken to the track. I was told that they should be driven hard.

    I didn't have any proplems at all with my '03 Z06, and with the reports I am hearing I am starting to wonder if I should have waited for a C6 Z06.

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    Sean lost his arbitration and Porsche won claiming abuse (autocrossing)!

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    Pretty crazy situation...Still can't believe he was thrown under the bus like that. To sit there and hear the Porsche guy say what he said was unreal...I hope all those with new cars are careful not to [censored] off Porsche or your dealer...if you do they will throw you under the bus too!

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    Sean lost his arbitration and Porsche won claiming abuse (autocrossing)!



    Next month at the California Speedway is the POC/PCA track event. During the lunch break, you can get onto the track for a "tour" with your street car. Would Porsche consider that abuse?

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    I doubt it....They just tied his autocrossing into his RMS leaks by showing his autocross dates and subsequent trip to the dealer for leak within the next week or so of the autocross...

    They even brought the web site results of his times and first place finishes...

    Talk about being thrown under the bus.........

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    Do you think that they just made a better case to the arbitrator or was their claim ( I hate to admit) reasonable afterall?
    I don't know the specifics of the case, only whats been put on line, just playing devil's advocate.

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    this thing is really tricky and must be sorted out for our future benefit

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    it cant go on like this otherwise lets all go and buy some s2000 crack them down on the track and then trow them in garbage

    Re: Warning to porsche's under warranty!!!

    Quote:
    C4S Surgeon said:
    Do you think that they just made a better case to the arbitrator or was their claim ( I hate to admit) reasonable afterall?
    I don't know the specifics of the case, only whats been put on line, just playing devil's advocate.



    First, this is an autocross where speeds are low and for a short duration. Downshifting is minimal.

    Second, I as well as the driving public, have been brainwashed by Porsche to believe that their cars are designed for performance at these sporting autocross events.

    Third, is it Porsches' position that driving around cones in a parking lot abuses a car?

    Fourth, is it Porsches' position that driving a Porsche around cones in a parking lot will cause RMS problems?

    If so, shouldn't Porsche send out a bulletin to all of its PCA chapters that;

    1. driving in the events will/could cause RMS and

    2. advise the members it will not honor warranties on the car if it is determine the car participated in these events.?

     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 2/19/24 6:03 PM
    watt
    562463 1759
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 2/19/24 11:51 PM
    Wonderbar
    372343 564
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021) 5/12/23 12:11 PM
    W8MM
    251256 288
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 1/2/24 11:19 PM
    Grant
    206107 290
    Porsche Sticky The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche 1/30/24 9:18 AM
    RCA
    37351 45
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift 2/19/24 9:07 AM
    RCA
    1987 25
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 2/1/24 7:01 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    837585 1364
    Porsche 992 GT3 7/23/23 7:01 PM
    Grant
    717091 3868
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 4/6/23 7:43 AM
    crayphile
    444754 1276
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 2/10/24 4:43 PM
    nberry
    369442 1526
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 7/3/23 12:30 PM
    Porker
    353592 797
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 12/13/23 2:48 PM
    CGX car nut
    334008 2401
    Porsche GT4RS 2/20/24 11:09 PM
    Grant
    333310 1415
    Lambo Aventador and SV 3/30/23 1:59 PM
    CGX car nut
    276422 724
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 4/21/23 8:09 AM
    the-missile
    256056 550
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 1/30/24 3:38 PM
    Enmanuel
    253037 645
    Porsche Collected my 997 GTS today 10/19/23 7:06 PM
    CGX car nut
     
     
     
     
     
    229112 812
    Others Corvette C8 10/16/23 3:24 PM
    Enmanuel
    216803 488
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/30/23 6:59 PM
    mcdelaug
    204989 346
    Lotus Lotus Emira 6/25/23 2:53 PM
    Enmanuel
    143590 101
    Others Gordon Murray - T.50 11/22/23 10:27 AM
    mcdelaug
    133700 387
    Porsche Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS 6/11/23 5:13 PM
    CGX car nut
    104576 144
    AMG Bought a muscle car... 3/26/23 3:31 PM
    WhoopsyM
    103963 303
    Ferrari [2022] Ferrari Purosangue (SUV) 4/15/23 5:20 AM
    watt
    98627 141
    Others Valkyrie final design? 4/28/23 2:45 AM
    Rossi
    95076 219
    Motor Sp. 2023 Formula One 12/19/23 5:38 AM
    WhoopsyM
    93330 685
    BMW M 2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now 12/29/23 9:04 AM
    RCA
    87505 303
    Porsche 2022 992 Safari Model 12/14/23 11:51 AM
    DuckieRS
    74844 186
    AMG Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758 2/20/24 4:30 PM
    Pilot
    73378 292
    Motor Sp. VW Group at Le Mans 3/14/23 7:37 AM
    Spyderidol
    41847 156
    134 items found, displaying 1 to 30.