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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    A pretty comprehensive article confirming the ambitions of Porsche and the Taycan, which will be an amazing car.

    ”A Porsche brand ambassador who must remain nameless confirmed the contents of a document obtained by this magazine that stated the entry model—due late next year—will be priced in the low $90,000s, the 4S equipped with a 96-kWh battery pack and 320-kW (429-hp) or 360-kW (483-hp) of power will be positioned in the high $90,000s, and the Turbo will start at about $140,000. All-wheel drive and the bigger battery are standard on the latter two versions.”

    The price gap between the base model and the 4S is unrealistic. That puts the 4S with a $110k base price, $120-135k with typical Porsche options.

    The base model will be $100k to $115k. It will have a 80kwh battery, range will be probably quite low.

    The turbo model $150k to $170k once optioned.

    “The long list of surprises put together by the engineering and marketing teams includes a leather-free trim, a separate cycle plan for connectivity improvements, significant over-the-air updates, and a host of brand-specific digital services.”

    This seems familiar smiley

    There is a mention of a 4 seater convertible, that could be something if it can have 300+ miles EPA range and around $150k for a sporty version.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Can't be read in Europe :(


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Ridealong: The Porsche Taycan Turbo Redefines Speed and Acceleration

    The Taycan’s advanced electric powertrain might as well be a warp drive.

    By: Georg Kacher | Photography by: The Manufacturer May 12, 2019

    Riding in a preproduction Porsche Taycan Turbo with chief project engineer Stefan Weckbach at the wheel is a bit like living inside a Marvel movie while wearing a VW headset while sitting in a Dallara race-car simulator. The whisper-quiet all-electric Porsche with a driveline on steroids lifts the terms “velocity” and “acceleration” to altogether different levels.

    The very first g-force attack, encountered two corners into the ride near Porsche’s Weissach facility in Germany, is a shock to the system. That’s what two potent electric motors and 1400-plus-pounds of fully charged lithium-ion batteries can do to you. The Taycan boasts an instant-on, instant-off direct-drive layout instead of wet clutches, angle drives, a couple of differentials, and a fat, high-inertia propshaft. Its pulse inverter that masterminds the torque vectoring acts five times faster than the chips that govern a conventional four-wheel-drive system. Forget stability management by brake actuation; the black box deep inside of the Taycan controls the experience exclusively by wheel-selective torque feed. “Zero loss, 100-percent dynamic efficiency,” Weckbach says.

    Range Anxiety Gives Way to Charge Anxiety

    We are cruising swiftly through the Weissach hinterland, and even though the car has already been on the road for more than two hours, the batteries are still going strong, showing a 48-percent state of charge. There is no doubt that the car industry and its partners have conquered range anxiety well before EVs have become household appliances. But the next big thing destined to undermine widespread acceptance of clean-air vehicles already looms large, and it’s called charge anxiety.

    For 2020, the energy provider consortium led by Ionity and backed by most major carmakers has promised 400 fast-charging stations across Europe, each with six spaces. Sounds like a plan, but the real test starts with the summer holidays, when legions of new-to-the-game planet-savers will line up from dawn to dusk for a refill while their PHEV- and combustion-engine-saddled fellow travelers are already sipping their third Aperol spritz at their final destinations. Even though the Taycan is the first EV than can be fed with up to 250kW at an 800V charge point, the corresponding infrastructure is still patchy, to put it mildly. Even those who are lucky enough to discover one of a handful 400V stations, most of which can typically muster only 150kW, will have to remain idle for at least 40 minutes before the power pack is 80 percent full. Imagine being number four in the queue.

    All Taycans come with specially coated PSCB brakes for reduced brake dust, but you can also specify overkill carbon-ceramic stoppers. Blending these systems with the regenerative braking function to perfection was one of the biggest challenges for Weckbach and his team. A small portion of the deceleration energy flows back to the batteries even during an emergency stop controlled by ABS. Unless the driver activates the mild recuperation mode by pushing a button on the steering-wheel, lift-off equals coasting (free-wheeling) which is obviously the most efficient type of forward motion. Alternatively, you may leave it to the cruise control to match the car’s speed to the flow of traffic. Maximum regeneration is an unrivalled 250kW. Dialing out the electric motors while dialing in the hydraulic brakes is key to the riveting performance and the allegedly totally progressive pedal feel.

    Since a consumption of 40 to 50 kWh is allegedly not an exception to the rule, selecting the Range mode extends the mileage by about 10 percent, although it automatically checks out when speeds exceed 85 mph. A Sport Plus-esque mode with a totally different raison d’être, Range scales back the air conditioning and adjusts torque vectoring. Within a range of -31 degrees to 113 degrees Fahrenheit, Porsche says battery temperatures are not an issue, irrespective of load and speed.

    It’s Stupefying in Motion

    Like all EVs, the Taycan is not primarily about high velocity. True, it can cruise at 162 mph for miles and miles without battery heatstroke or exceeding the motors’ maximum speed of 16,000 rpm, and it has lapped the Nürburgring Nordschleife in less than eight minutes, which is no mean feat. But the Taycan’s true forte is empty secondary roads on which the low-riding, two-ton car is every bit as quick as the lighter and nimbler 911 Turbo.

    What gives the electric car the edge is a whopping 649 lb-ft of telepathically triggered peak torque (or 738 lb-ft in a 10-second “overboost” window), an amount that would shred the driveline in one quick go if it weren’t for the protective torque limiter, the two-speed transmission that blocks first gear at times to prevent mechanical disintegration, and the electronic rear differential lock.

    The Turbo version—there’s of course delicious irony in that nomenclature—features a beefy 96-kWh battery, a 160-kW (215-hp)/221-lb-ft motor up front, and a 300-kW (402-hp)/405-lb-ft motor at the rear. In launch-control mode with your left foot on the brake and your right foot on the throttle, the whiplash effect that happens when you launch flattens your eyeballs against the back of your skull while taxing your spine to nearly its breaking point. Porsche claims that just more than three seconds elapse from takeoff to 60 mph; the zero-to-125-mph acceleration time is less than 10 seconds. Once more, this is 911 Turbo territory.

    Between The Black Hole of Swabia and The Bermuda Triangle of Upper Bavaria where law and order are typically on annual leave in early May, my chauffeur suddenly feels like injecting a dash of time-warp sci-fi to his driving. Anticipation—and a little fear—comes in three waves. First, the ESP warning symbol starts flashing to indicate it’s off. Then Sport Plus firms up the ride, speeds up the steering, and quickens the throttle response. Finally, oodles of instant torque produce a positively physical forward thrust like a land mine exploding just aft of the rear bumper.

    The sudden shift from lazy Sunday driver to part-time hooligan is backed up by an extraterrestrial amount of grip and traction. Even though the wheels are fitted with mid-spec 275/40R20 tires, and not with the more extreme 21-inch footwear, the Taycan produces as little wheelspin as an Airbus A320 cleared for takeoff. Although energy is released with an overwhelming urge and distributed with surgical precision, at the same time a touch of cold professionalism creeps through the vehicle’s pores, relaying a hunch of invincibility confirmed in microsecond intervals by the unerringly plotted directional stability.

    Even at what feels like 11/10ths to the wide-eyed novice, there is absolutely no tugging, twitching, or fidgeting by the car, nor does it divert from the chosen path. In terms of dynamic enhancements, the top-of-the-line Taycan features the full set of high-tech goodies. The complex setup includes air suspension (except on the base car), all-wheel drive, available rear-wheel steering, 48-volt antiroll bars, active aerodynamics, and steel brakes with serious stopping power. Genetically, this car is more closely related to the 992 911 than the Panamera.

    Diving into the Details

    The Taycan actually sports an even lower center of gravity than its rear-engined sports-car brother. The batteries are cooled by a liquid circuit integrated in the floorpan, and the available full set of assistance systems is a present from the Audi A8. LG provides a total of 408 pouch cells per vehicle, packaged in 34 individual modules.

    “Despite its zero-emission status, this is a proper Porsche,” claims Bernd Propfe, platform director for the Taycan. “As a result, performance is of the essence. Even when driven flat-out for an hour or more, this car will only go into a limp-home mode when the distance-to-empty is at zero. Unlike other products, the Taycan’s power and torque curves will not be dented by a drop of state of charge. As long as there is juice left, an all-out attack always remains an option. In terms of repeatability, this is in our view the undisputed leader of the pack.”

    With my heart still in my shoes, I’m grateful for every speed limit and speed-limited village that come our way. These short breathers present a welcome opportunity to check out the cabin ambience, the quality of the seats, and the instrument panel. The Taycan is a four-seater with just about enough space for two adults in the back, where the so-called “foot garages,” clever rectangular recesses in the floor, preclude the use of a rectangular monolithic battery pack but help accommodate long legs.

    Up front, headline features include the fully adjustable power-operated lightweight buckets and the curved digital display, the design of which harks back to early 911s. An additional rectangular monitor on the passenger side is offered as an option. Like most recently launched infotainment systems, this one needs an in-depth introduction to decipher the hidden features. The multifunctional steering wheel is peppered with 10 control elements distributed across the two horizontal spokes, the conveniently positioned center stack is loaded with haptic and visual delights, and in addition to the main full-width content screen, extra money buys an extended head-up display.

    Despite the generous 115.0-inch wheelbase and the substantial estimated curb weight of just less than 4,630 pounds, a cushy ride is not one of the Taycan’s fortes. Our driver says, “This is a sporty GT which digitally reinterprets traditional Porsche values. While you may search the menu in vain for a Comfort button, there are four additional chassis options plus a lap timer for those who want to go play without disturbing the wildlife.”

    Porsche is not interested in slowing down the car unless conditions require it. If our brief driving experiences in the Mission E concept and the Cross Turismo concept, plus this ride in the preproduction Taycan Turbo, are anything to go by, the real thing promises to combine the best of many worlds. The rear-wheel steering is bound to enhance maneuverability as well as straight-line stability, the steering strikes a fine balance between bold and beefy, and the brakes are as sharp as a laser pointer yet easy to modulate and full of stamina. Having said that, we have yet to find out how the deceleration apparatus works at high speed; how ride, handling, and roadholding harmonize on the autobahn; and how the drivetrain responds to repeated brutal torque inputs.

    Says Propfe: “The Taycan Turbo can do 10 full-throttle zero-to-62-mph and four zero-to-125-mph sprints without a one iota decrease in performance.” Speaking from the second-best seat in the house, the car’s motions are indeed subtly coherent and nicely fluent as the Taycan follows the driver’s instructions with aplomb. The one dynamic virtue that stands out most is the amazing tarmac-hugging flatness with which the Taycan holds its body; it glides, supercar-like, as if magnets were holding it to the ground. Like the massive torque punch, this surreal amount of grip underlines that the Taycan is anything but your father’s Porsche.

    Moving Forward at the VW Group

    Production has already started in an extension of the Zuffenhausen plant, that portion of the facility consuming a large chunk of the $1-billion-plus J1 program. Peak capacity is close to 60,000 units per year, which corresponds to a daily output of up to 266 vehicles. Starting in 2021, one third of the available volume will be allocated to the CUV known as the Cross Turismo. Audi is expected to assemble its own derivatives—the e-tron GT and GT Sportback—in the Bollinger Höfe factory near Neckarsulm, the current home of the R8. The production base for Bentley’s reinterpretation of the short-lived Mercedes R-class is still to be decided, and the Lamborghini spinoff is reportedly still four years away.

    Although Porsche has so far approved only two Taycan body styles, chapter one of the BEV adventure ends in 2023 when J1 II is to be introduced. Why launch a major update only four and a half years after the start of production? Because the costs must come down as the overall efficiency increases, and because Porsche is keen on adding three more Taycan spinoffs over time. Waiting in the wings are a 928-style coupe, a matching cabriolet, and a proper SUV. Not surprisingly, these carrots are also attracting the attention of Audi, Bentley, and, with certain reservations, Bugatti.

    Since the Taycan’s official debut remains some months away, the final specs remain undecided, but we do know for sure that there will be three different versions. The base Taycan is rear-wheel drive only, sports an 80-kWh battery, and is powered by a choice of 240-kW (322-hp) and 280-kW (375-hp) motors. A Porsche brand ambassador who must remain nameless confirmed the contents of a document obtained by this magazine that stated the entry model—due late next year—will be priced in the low $90,000s, the 4S equipped with a 96-kWh battery pack and 320-kW (429-hp) or 360-kW (483-hp) of power will be positioned in the high $90,000s, and the Turbo will start at about $140,000. All-wheel drive and the bigger battery are standard on the latter two versions.

    Still to be signed off are an even rawer 540-kW (724-hp) Turbo S and a lighter RWD GTS. Starting with J1 II, solid-state power packs will be phased in as they become available. By 2021 at the very latest, the peak charging power is set to increase from 250 to 350 kW, which should—in combination with that best-in-class 800V energy provider—reduce the charge time to a swift 14 minutes. In contrast, a plug-in at your home takes up to 30 hours. The pending inductive-charging ability is initially restricted to a miserly 11 kW, which means a charge will take just about the same amount of time as a season of Game of Thrones.

    The Interface

    During a lunch break, we munch on bratwurst and then spend some quality time with the infotainment system. The selective display puts the focus on speed, state of charge, consumption, range, and, eventually, the closest charge points. There even is an autopilot function, which will—like in the A8 from where it originates—be activated as soon as regulations permit. Individual mode allows you to compose personal dynamic preferences, like mating the softest spring setting to the sportiest drivetrain calibration.

    “It was our goal to create reduced, user-focused, distraction-free, increasingly voice-based ergonomics which provide only the information you need or want, no more and no less,” says Weckbach. “Unique to the Taycan is the optional sound generator which adds some bass to the oomph.” The noise that fills the cabin is best described as the subdued hum of a synthetic multi-cylinder boxer engine. Switch off the artificial orchestra, and you will only hear faintly whirring motors, the occasional suspension thump, rumbling tires, and the howling wind. This is the music of the future.

    The Taycan’s main mission is to eclipse the Tesla Model S in all key departments. Expectedly, it fails to do so in terms of packaging and (super)charging infrastructure. While the P100D Tesla versions are even quicker off the mark than the hottest landshark from Stuttgart, the repeatability of such a task is what allegedly separates the wheat from the chaff. Porsche engineers are adamant that the high-performance tag is not an empty promise.

    The long list of surprises put together by the engineering and marketing teams includes a leather-free trim, a separate cycle plan for connectivity improvements, significant over-the-air updates, and a host of brand-specific digital services. Comments Porsche’s chief technical officer Michael Steiner, “We still have a few aces up our sleeve. For example, the battery weight will come down step by step while the energy density goes up. The performance-oriented balancing of different cell types is another potential differentiator.” And what is our provisional verdict on the car? Well, the Taycan is good looking and solid as a rock even at ludicrous (sorry, Tesla) speeds, and it’s a remarkable high-performance high-end GT which can’t wait to rearrange your internal organs. It most certainly has the potential to become a real trendsetter that ticks critical social-acceptance boxes and leaves behind a virtually invisible CO2 footprint.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    honestly, it is a great article about the Turbo and give a watering mouth.

    Confirmed even by them, they targeted the competitor and it is called Tesla. they will propose online updates and they want to make sure they are better in every possible way including the battery tech which is coming later.

    Pricing looks between pany and cayenne...now the only question is where to charge the damn thing in my basement parking smiley


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    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Maybe a bit of a fanboy article, still an interesting read. Looking forward to the real thing. Thanks for sharing 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    the-missile:

    honestly, it is a great article about the Turbo and give a watering mouth.

    Confirmed even by them, they targeted the competitor and it is called Tesla. they will propose online updates and they want to make sure they are better in every possible way including the battery tech which is coming later.

    Pricing looks between pany and cayenne...now the only question is where to charge the damn thing in my basement parking smiley

     

    EM10000.jpg

     

    Nothing wrong with using one of these. For most people in the world with coal power plants, this is cleaner than the electricity from the wall socket. 

    Might as well put it in the trunk. 


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    A true hybrid smiley


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    that qualifies for the best joke of the day indecision

    sad to propose a product on one side and not having the readiness on the other...worst, when they will be tons of EV cars around streets, how the buildings/homes will manage this power requirement...enlightened

    regular power supply in france is 230V, single phase with average of less than 10kVA contract...


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    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?



    First time I see the back seats tested. It is clearly a much smaller car than the Panamera as can be seen in this video. Looks rather cramped back there Smiley
     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Why are you acting surprised?

    It has always been known that the Taycan is a smaller car than the Panamera, they do not compete in the same class. People that want more rear leg room goes for the Panamera.

    Only SciFrog thinks a Taycan, a smaller car, is going not steal sales from the bigger Panamera. Weird to think that way as E class cars don't steal sales from S class.

     

     


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Seems like a good thing to me. Many on this board wanted the Panamera to be 3/5 series size - also fits the more driver focused image.

    Seems similar or slightly more cramped than the Model S which probably will be the main competitor.

    Tim 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:

    Why are you acting surprised?

    It has always been known that the Taycan is a smaller car than the Panamera, they do not compete in the same class. People that want more rear leg room goes for the Panamera.

    Only SciFrog thinks a Taycan, a smaller car, is going not steal sales from the bigger Panamera. Weird to think that way as E class cars don't steal sales from S class.

     

     


    Sure, you're right, but I thought that even though the footprint of the Taycan is smaller than the Panamera, they would have been able to squeeze in some legroom in the back due to that EVs in general allow for more interior space because of smaller drive train. This was the first time I have seen any images from back there and was just surprised that it looked as cramped as it did.

    But giving it a second thought it's probably a good thing that it is smaller. Will be a more nimble car and in Europe we in general like smaller cars on our tighter roads and in cities so why not Smiley


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Europeans want smaller cars... This trend already hit other countries as well, including the US.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:

    Europeans want smaller cars... This trend already hit other countries as well, including the US.


    Well, I think that's just a logical reaction from the customers, since with every new generation all cars became bigger and bigger. Smiley


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    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Tim:

    Seems like a good thing to me. Many on this board wanted the Panamera to be 3/5 series size - also fits the more driver focused image.

    Seems similar or slightly more cramped than the Model S which probably will be the main competitor.

    Tim 

    I did have the chance to sit inside. I have written this here. You can't compare the rear bench of Taycan to Tesla S.

    Taycan is a 2+2 better than 911 but not a real 4-seater. 


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    AM


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    The Taycan looks very low for a mid-size sedan, and combined with the coupe shape vs more fastback shape I think is responsible for the cramped rear seats. I'm sure Porsche did their research on what their target customers want/need and what fits their model lineup, and also this is just one model, the first, I'm sure they will come out with more versions for all needs


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    How tall is Thomas Geiger?


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    lukestern:
    Whoopsy:

    Why are you acting surprised?

    It has always been known that the Taycan is a smaller car than the Panamera, they do not compete in the same class. People that want more rear leg room goes for the Panamera.

    Only SciFrog thinks a Taycan, a smaller car, is going not steal sales from the bigger Panamera. Weird to think that way as E class cars don't steal sales from S class.

     

     


    Sure, you're right, but I thought that even though the footprint of the Taycan is smaller than the Panamera, they would have been able to squeeze in some legroom in the back due to that EVs in general allow for more interior space because of smaller drive train. This was the first time I have seen any images from back there and was just surprised that it looked as cramped as it did.

    But giving it a second thought it's probably a good thing that it is smaller. Will be a more nimble car and in Europe we in general like smaller cars on our tighter roads and in cities so why not Smiley

    Sorry but I do not think I was the only one thinking that the Taycan was a real 4 seater. Actually I would like to know how many of the 10,000 deposits didn’t know that or that the car will cost nowhere the $79k price that was floated early on, or that the real usable range will likely be hard to live with, especially if you drive it like a Porsche.

    Smaller exterior yes, but small INSIDE is the real surprise. So indeed it will not steal as many Panamera sales as I thought, but nor will it steal many Tesla S sales. What the Taycan seems to be is a car for families without kids. What it might steal now though is “comfy” regular 911 sales.

    Price wise, this does not bode well for the next Porsche EVs because basically a Macan EV would be slightly lower or the same price as this, a Cayenne 25% more and a Panamera EV would be much higher.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:
    lukestern:
    Whoopsy:

    Why are you acting surprised?

    It has always been known that the Taycan is a smaller car than the Panamera, they do not compete in the same class. People that want more rear leg room goes for the Panamera.

    Only SciFrog thinks a Taycan, a smaller car, is going not steal sales from the bigger Panamera. Weird to think that way as E class cars don't steal sales from S class.

     

     


    Sure, you're right, but I thought that even though the footprint of the Taycan is smaller than the Panamera, they would have been able to squeeze in some legroom in the back due to that EVs in general allow for more interior space because of smaller drive train. This was the first time I have seen any images from back there and was just surprised that it looked as cramped as it did.

    But giving it a second thought it's probably a good thing that it is smaller. Will be a more nimble car and in Europe we in general like smaller cars on our tighter roads and in cities so why not Smiley

    Sorry but I do not think I was the only one thinking that the Taycan was a real 4 seater. Actually I would like to know how many of the 10,000 deposits didn’t know that or that the car will cost nowhere the $79k price that was floated early on, or that the real usable range will likely be hard to live with, especially if you drive it like a Porsche.

    Smaller exterior yes, but small INSIDE is the real surprise. So indeed it will not steal as many Panamera sales as I thought, but nor will it steal many Tesla S sales. What the Taycan seems to be is a car for families without kids. What it might steal now though is “comfy” regular 911 sales.

    Price wise, this does not bode well for the next Porsche EVs because basically a Macan EV would be slightly lower or the same price as this, a Cayenne 25% more and a Panamera EV would be much higher.

    Porsche has stressed on numerous occasions that the Tesla Model S or the Model 3 is not competition for the Taycan.  It is, as one has stated several times, is more a modern rendition of the evergreen 911.  Unfortunately, to get the range demanded in the market and under current levels of battery technologies, the large battery pack forces Porsche to adopt a larger, four door configuration.  This car is introducing several technologies including a two-speed transmission to move performance parameters forward.  Of course, there are parameters more important than base 0-60 mph times.  The acceleration times beyond 100 kph must be incredible as Porsche is limiting torque at launch to preserve the drivetrain, and probably the tires too.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I will admit that I am a bit surprised by the smaller interior. I often carry four people in my Panamera Turbo, and like that capability.. If the Taycan has limited rear space, it will affect my purchase decision.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Wonderbar:

    I will admit that I am a bit surprised by the smaller interior. I often carry four people in my Panamera Turbo, and like that capability.. If the Taycan has limited rear space, it will affect my purchase decision.

    It is more Porsche's version of the Aston-Martin Rapide.  


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    If one just look around them when driving, how many cars have people in the back seat? Most are single rider and 2 up in the front.

    The back seat is only used occasionally, outside of families with kids that they put in the back seat, and the odd trips where 4 adults needed to go somewhere, the back seat are mostly unused.

    This is of course discounted those that use a chauffeur, but then again those people would go for a larger sedan, Panamera or S Class. 

    A tiny tiny portion of people that put a deposit down for a Taycan would need to travel with 4 people regularly, most will be a family with 1 kid or 2, the rest will be travelling mostly as a single or at most 2 adults in the front. The one that needed extra room for 4 adults can buy a Panamera. Or a Cayenne. Or a Macan. 

     

     


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    If what you said was reflecting the reality, there would be many many more 2 seater cars on the road. Kids are in school all day, of course you will not see them in the back seat during that time or after being dropped off/picked up.

    And that’s just for people with kids, there are also many couples who have to be able to fit adults in the back, just look at Wonderbar answer...

    Not saying the Taycan will only fill a small niche though, since because of its price it will go to households as a 3rd or 4th car anyway.

    Porsche should have started with the Macan EV but it seems like there is a very clear picture as of why their technology was not ready to do so: range. The Taycan, being a small 2+2 sedan designed from the ground up as EV, should be much more efficient than a Macan EV would be. The Macan would have to outperform by a good margin the ETron that already has a lackluster range. Just imagine a reviewer driving a Macan turbo EV like a Porsche should be and realizing after 30 miles it is indicated you only have another 60 miles to go, in a friendly weather...

    By launching the Taycan now, Porsche can use some of its R&D, perfect the technology and look “green” while waiting for the tech to catch up so they can prepare the rest of the fleet and the charging network. That’s pretty smart. But again, I just wonder how many people REALLY know what the Taycan is going to be and how much it will cost. Clearly even here, many including me did/do not know.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    People just like bigger cars period. 

    Notice all those pickup trucks with single drivers? Or SUVs? Or even vans?

    Sports cars are not practical for most people, they need to carry stuff, not just people. A 911 is already one of the most practical sports car but even it can't carry much compared to a 1 series. 

     


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    If what you said was reflecting the reality, there would be many many more 2 seater cars on the road. Kids are in school all day, of course you will not see them in the back seat during that time or after being dropped off/picked up.

    And that’s just for people with kids, there are also many couples who have to be able to fit adults in the back, just look at Wonderbar answer...

    Not saying the Taycan will only fill a small niche though, since because of its price it will go to households as a 3rd or 4th car anyway.

    Porsche should have started with the Macan EV but it seems like there is a very clear picture as of why their technology was not ready to do so: range. The Taycan, being a small 2+2 sedan designed from the ground up as EV, should be much more efficient than a Macan EV would be. The Macan would have to outperform by a good margin the ETron that already has a lackluster range. Just imagine a reviewer driving a Macan turbo EV like a Porsche should be and realizing after 30 miles it is indicated you only have another 60 miles to go, in a friendly weather...

    By launching the Taycan now, Porsche can use some of its R&D, perfect the technology and look “green” while waiting for the tech to catch up so they can prepare the rest of the fleet and the charging network. That’s pretty smart. But again, I just wonder how many people REALLY know what the Taycan is going to be and how much it will cost. Clearly even here, many including me did/do not know.

    The Taycan is faithful to the Mission E concept.  That is not a large automobile and Porsche never officially stated that the Taycan was comparable to Panamera in size or accommodations.  Even when Porsche was pushed on the question that the Taycan is a Tesla Model S competitor, it deflected such comparisons.  Porsche and its parent, Volkswagen AG, has a well-developed EV product roadmap.  Initial introductions focus on providing product in various niches to build experience and production volume.  As these areas are addressed, Porsche will move toward higher volume, more practical vehicles.  Scale is even more important for inchoate EV production than it is for conventionally powered automobiles.  One major issue remains the availability of raw materials needed to produce batteries and electric machines at very high production volumes.  There's significantly more work needed as even current resource reserves aren't fully understood as industries didn't require, for example, cobalt at the levels needed to replace current ICE production.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    It looks like the confusion was fueled by the people (like some here?) saying that the Taycan would be a Model S killer... angry while the people who saw the car in real had seen how small it is in reality. Since the interior of the Panamera is small for its exterior size, it is not surprising the interior of the Taycan is even smaller. The idea of a convertible version is pretty cool though.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

     Helpful discussion, everyone. I was in Geneva when the Mission E concept was presented, and it was rather small. I should have known better than to think it would be Panamera size in the rear seat area.

    Whoopsy, I do think that, although many sedans are driven with only one person in the car, I think some people will be dissuaded from buying the Taycan because there will be occasions when they do want a comfortable four seater. Just my two cents. Right now, I think my decision to lease my current Panamera was correct because I do, at least twice a week, carry two or three people along with me. Just my lifestyle now, which may change. 

    And the smaller size of the Taycanr does raise the question about whether it will pirate some 911, not Panamera, sales.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I do actually think the Taycan will eat into 911 sales.

    IF the Taycan can handle like 85% of a 911. Heck, even at 80% it will steal sales.

    911 don't have hybrid or EV versions yet. That bit makes the Taycan attractive, a EV that handles, something a Tesla will never be. 

    Carrying a 3rd person in a 911 is a last resort, but very doable in a Taycan. And for those that want to carry 4 adults, Porsche have other cars. With the Taycan in the lineup, Porsche pretty much has the 1 person to 5 person range covered. 

    I would have prefer a Taycan sized sedan, but since Taycan is EV only, I had to go up one size to get the Panamera Turbo S, Porsche lost one Taycan sale to the bigger brother right here.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I have 4 friends in Toronto that I know have Taycan orders. One is to replace a tesla s, one a cayenne hybrid and two to replace a Macan. One of the macans is a childless couple that don't care too much about rear seats but the other three this was to be a primary / secondary family car and I can guarantee you that if the back seat is that small they are going to cancel their order. 


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    For me the Taycan could be a better fit than a 992: more room for a small child in the back + perfect company car taxwise....

     


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 


     
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