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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    KMM:

    In all fairness, I had other Porsches that did not have problems (or at least, nothing remarkable); a 1988 944S comes to mind; great car that one. Or maybe I had come to accept the belt pulley replacements and "engine reseals" as regular maintenance events...

     

    I had so many Porsche and practically never had an issue with the cars. Driven hard like they are supposed to be driven. Smiley  Track driving puts a lot of stress on the car, so driving 10000 km on the track (which is quite easy achievable) is like driving 5-10 times the same distance on the street. What do people expect? Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    They should never have allowed me to sit in it today.

    Felt cosy... (and like cheating on mine)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I hear what you're saying, RC, but most of the issues I encountered had nothing to do with tracking the cars (which I did not do much of). Most of these are known flaws that Porsche corrected later on, through updated replacement parts, without admitting that the original design was lacking. As with the CL problem, the customer was left holding the bag for poorly engineered/tested parts. 

    Engine mounts failures, water pump premature failures, RMS problems with the M96 motor, none of these had anything to do with track use.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    911rox:

    Yes, apparently Porsche are so considerate of customers that they now devise solutions for problems that don't exist, apparently.. Smiley

    To all those in the belief that there was no CL issue, you stand corrected.

    To all those who say that a GT3 is not intended for track use, you stand corrected as Porsche wouldn't be modifying the system for "improved suitability for track use" if the car was not so intended...

    FYI, a maintenance schedule has not been posted for the revised system so we don't know how confident Porsche are that its fixed untill we see it. It the new system requires hubs timed out every 7000km, they are far from fixed! Smiley

    I never said the CL issue didn't exist. I just said that in order to avoid the cost for maintenance, you just need to stop track racing. Otherwise, you still have the possibility to sell your car and get the new one. Smiley Joking aside, I really don't understand why we discuss this in the 991 GT3 forum. Smiley

    RC, the discussion on CL is now done... Its purpose? To ensure the next 5000 GT3 owners knew the existing issues so they went to their dealers with eyes wide open and asked all the correct questions if they plan to use their cars as intended without incurring prohibitive costs. It has everything to do with the new car because Porsche haven't resolved this safety issue for 1st generation owners yet continued down this path rather than concede it wasn't a good idea.

    For the record, back several pages ago, you are on record as saying there was no CL issue, Porsche had fixed it... You even now continue to suggest that the most track focussed car not be tracked to avoid these costs as your solution rather than concede Porsche's wrong doing... At least others considering the car now know better and will no longer be walking into the dealership with the wool pulled down over their eyes... To each their own...Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Just to change subject. Has anyone hear of production allocations being rescheduled yet? A few dealers Im talking to are awaiting quotas but saying Porsche is talking about pushing some allocation/quotas back a bit (maybe capacity or parts supply issues). Just wondered what others are hearing....


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    911rox:
    RC:
    911rox:

    Yes, apparently Porsche are so considerate of customers that they now devise solutions for problems that don't exist, apparently.. Smiley

    To all those in the belief that there was no CL issue, you stand corrected.

    To all those who say that a GT3 is not intended for track use, you stand corrected as Porsche wouldn't be modifying the system for "improved suitability for track use" if the car was not so intended...

    FYI, a maintenance schedule has not been posted for the revised system so we don't know how confident Porsche are that its fixed untill we see it. It the new system requires hubs timed out every 7000km, they are far from fixed! Smiley

    I never said the CL issue didn't exist. I just said that in order to avoid the cost for maintenance, you just need to stop track racing. Otherwise, you still have the possibility to sell your car and get the new one. Smiley Joking aside, I really don't understand why we discuss this in the 991 GT3 forum. Smiley

    RC, the discussion on CL is now done... Its purpose? To ensure the next 5000 GT3 owners knew the existing issues so they went to their dealers with eyes wide open and asked all the correct questions if they plan to use their cars as intended without incurring prohibitive costs. It has everything to do with the new car because Porsche haven't resolved this safety issue for 1st generation owners yet continued down this path rather than concede it wasn't a good idea.

    For the record, back several pages ago, you are on record as saying there was no CL issue, Porsche had fixed it... You even now continue to suggest that the most track focussed car not be tracked to avoid these costs as your solution rather than concede Porsche's wrong doing... At least others considering the car now know better and will no longer be walking into the dealership with the wool pulled down over their eyes... To each their own...Smiley

    Fully agree..to say there was never an issue..is just wrong. By all respect, the videos on youtube where a 3.8 is loosing at the Ring around 200km/h its wheels..the driver could have been dead. Im actually wondering why Porsche got away with is so easily while Toyota has been hammered for some plastic carpets below the gas pedal. Anyhow, it seems that the issue for the 991 GT3 is probably solved as they speak of "991 CUP CL design"..however, I would be very careful - as you are - with regards to maintenance. The current approach of Porsche is not acceptable towards 997.2 GT3 owners.

    Coming to Maccas comment: I heard that Porsche kept on purpose the first batch of GT3s low..apparently no space and time to buil more..but I suspect another element also, they want to avoid the "991 - second hand" desaster again, meaning, flooding the market with cars which destroy second hand prices. If you look at some Porsche dealers now, masses of 997 and 991 available..too many cars for not enough buyers. Great for Porsche because these cars are marked as "sales-revenue"..but for the dealer and the general price stability its a nightmare.. 

    For those of you who will buy a 991 GT3, I can only hope that it wont become the best selling GT3 ever, because like this your price stability is a more likely to remain..and you will be driving somethimg which is quite exclusive..


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    macca993:

    Just to change subject. Has anyone hear of production allocations being rescheduled yet? A few dealers Im talking to are awaiting quotas but saying Porsche is talking about pushing some allocation/quotas back a bit (maybe capacity or parts supply issues). Just wondered what others are hearing....

    My dealer gets only three cars this year, so yes, I suppose supply is limited.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    GTlover:
    For those of you who will buy a 991 GT3, I can only hope that it wont become the best selling GT3 ever, because like this your price stability is a more likely to remain..and you will be driving somethimg which is quite exclusive..

    I don't care about price stability of whatever, I lease my cars Smiley (yes, in the end it is financially the better way for me) and I do it because I love driving them. I couldn't care less about depreciation because I don't have to. Smiley

    Why shouldn't more people be able to enjoy the GT3? If you want something more special from a value point of view, get the GT3 RS or...the 918.

    Now we are switching from CL issues to being elitist? Seriously?!


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Grant:

    Saw this on Rennlist about the wheels  - hope not repost:    "991 GT3 Central locking

    The central locking on the new 911 GT3 is a completely new development with higher load limits and improved suitability for track use. The new 911 GT3-specific central lock is identified by a more robust wheel hub for a significantly improved camber stability and carrier bolts that are now fixed to the wheel hub (997 GT3 II: fastened to the brake chamber).
     
    The significantly improved connection system is enhanced by larger bearing journals and larger wheel bearings that are now identical to the 911 GT3 Cup racing cars. The central screws have a friction optimised trapezoidal screw thread and a thread runout with reduced notch effect. The new central screws can be recognized visually by the revised ring gear. The dimensions and the basic shape of the central screws have been retained and the teeth re-accented by distinctive spaces between them. The central screws are anodised black on the new 911 GT3 and have a black wheel hub cover with a silver colored “GT3” logo. "

     


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

    ++++++++++++++

    I fully agree that the CL question belongs to the new 991 GT3 as CLs are fitted as standard on this car, and considering past issues faced by previous GT3 owners.

    The press dossier released by Porsche at the Geneva Auto Show states the following (p. 10, at the end of the paragraph captioned “Leaving curves with more traction: PTV Plus”):  “Again, the wheels come with a central locking system, WHICH HAS BEEN OPTIMIZED FURTHER”.

    Regarding past issues with CLs, it seems that the manufacturer is faced with a clear products liability case.  Post-sale recommendations about maintenance (even more so at the owner’s expense) do not matter as they are post-sale and therefore affect the deal made at the time of purchase.  The issue is even more serious that it has an impact on human safety, in addition to the economic impact.  If the issue is not fixed at the seller/manufacturer’s expense, depending on your jurisdiction there may be basis for a class action by the GT3 owners or individual action by them plus perhaps investigation by state agencies in charge of consumer protection/product liability and safety.

    Considering that again CLs are fitted on the new 991 GT3, what would be useful would be for Porsche to be more specific on how it has fixed the problem both from a technical and an economic (maintenance) standpoint.  Can anyone with authority on this kind of topic in this forum ask Porsche in order to find out?

    Should the new 991 GT3 owners have to swallow the pill and the 7,000 track km mark remain relevant for the 991, 7,000 track km is a lot anyway.

    Here are my calculations:  In a typical club track day, including 6 series of 30 minutes of track time, you would cover 200-300km driving on the track.  If you participate in half a dozen track day week-ends in the year, that means about 1,200-1,800 track km per annum or double that if you spend both days of each week-end for track driving.  Therefore the 7,000 track km mark may not be reached before year 4 or 5, i.e., well beyond the two-year Porsche warranty.  To have the issue materialize within the two-year Porsche warranty, covering 7,000 track km implies going 35 to 24 track days within two years.  It seems lot to me.

    I assume GT3 owners like to go to club track days with their cars, as I do.  Otherwise, if they tow their car or have it transported to the track, they might as well not bother with a GT3 but buy a (British) “track-day weapon”, which is a fraction of the GT3 weight, faster and much cheaper to buy and run than the GT3 – you can probably buy several years’ worth of Caterham full-season racing for the price of a 911 GT3.  Going to the track event with your car means covering several hundred km on the way to the track and back during the track day week-end (typically 600-1,000km of trip by road for each week-end).  Therefore, to develop on my assumption above, one would drive about 1,800 track km per annum plus 6,000 km for the road trip to and back for the track event.  I have been told that a km spent on a track has much greater impact than a km spent on the road (two-fold?  Tenfold?).  The impact certainly depends on the driving style and conditions.

    That means that 7,000 track km means a road-equivalent of 15,000 / 30,000 km on the road, plus the 30,000 road trips just to attend the week-end track days.  Of course, having such a great car, it would be difficult to resist driving it from time to time even if you are not going to a track week-end.  All these km seem a lot to reach within two years or even four.

    Again, what would be useful would be for Porsche to be more specific on how it has fixed the problem both from a technical and an economic (maintenance) standpoint.

    Can anyone with authority on this kind of topic in this forum ask Porsche in order to find out?

    Let us hope it will bring good news.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    KMM:

    I hear what you're saying, RC, but most of the issues I encountered had nothing to do with tracking the cars (which I did not do much of). Most of these are known flaws that Porsche corrected later on, through updated replacement parts, without admitting that the original design was lacking. As with the CL problem, the customer was left holding the bag for poorly engineered/tested parts. 

    Engine mounts failures, water pump premature failures, RMS problems with the M96 motor, none of these had anything to do with track use.

     

    Funny is, I owned so many Porsche and never had one of these issues. I also talk to many owners, incl. the mechanics at my dealership and while there have been issues, they are not out of the ordinary. The internet makes issue look and sound much more dramatic than they actually are, so if 5 owners out of 50000 owners post issues with a car, it sounds dramatic but usually isn't. I really don't understand why we have to discuss this in a thread about a new model introduction and if you guys really care about "future Porsche owners", why didn't you raise the same points in the 991 Carrera threads? 

    If some of you want to discuss older issues, please open a new thread. I will delete all further posts related to past issues because they simply don't belong in a thread about a new model.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I read all the fuss about the PDK and new engine on the 991 GT3.

    I believe there are two important facts which are worth considering and on which I have not read any comments on this forum.

    The two points are the total weight and the weight distribution.

    Regarding the total weight, the new engine is 25kg lighter than the 997 3.8 GT3 but the PDK is 30kg heavier than the manual box on the 997 3.8 GT3.  That means only 5kg of additional weight, or 0.36% extra weight.  Sound marginal to me.  Almost a wash vs the manual box.

    However, there is very good news from weight distribution standpoint:  no one on this forum needs help to locate the weight saving on the engine.  As for the PDK, the weight is ahead of the rear axle.

    If you factor this with the fact that the engine block (and gearbox?) in the 991 was moved forward in the car relative to where it stood in the 997 (please correct me if I am wrong), the 991 GT3 enjoys a much, much better weight distribution than the 997 3.8 GT3.

    What do you think? Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    911rox,

    please, please, please stop with this CL rubish in this thread! Please!


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I had nothing further to contribute on that topic, just answered RC's question... I will await the new model, see how it holds up and drives and if worthy of the badge I will consider it's facelift for future purchase...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    911rox:

    I had nothing further to contribute on that topic, just answered RC's question... I will await the new model, see how it holds up and drives and if worthy of the badge I will consider it's facelift for future purchase...

    You just need to follow the (future) owner reports here on Rennteam and you'll get your answer.

    I may even get a GT3 myself...if the wife agrees. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I think everyone will be suprised when they read the first driving reviews of this new GT3.

    This will be a car that is more than the sum of its parts.

    The benchmark is no longer the 3.8 GT3 or 3.8 GT3RS. Test drivers have already been quoted  to say that the new 991 GT3 moves the game on in every concievable dimension. That it is both quicker and more exciting to drive. They speak of comparisons only to the RS4.0 and infact AP has mentioned in two seperate interviews (before the car was launched at Geneva and during interviews at the even) comparisons with the RS4.0. Early test drivers were breaking 7.30 at the ring in their first drives. Porsche actually have a market positioning challenge with this car. It not only makes more than the quotes horsepower but it also substancially improves on dynamics which will cast both the Carrera GT and RS4.0 Ring lap times to light. Porsche havent announced the Ring time because they are still deciding how conservative they wish to make this. The likely announcemenet will be 7.28 or 7.27 but you can be assured the first serious german magazine to take the car to the ring with a decent driver will shave seconds off this time!

    Everyone needs to take a deep breath. They have given this car a natural steering feel reminicent of the past GT3s (again they use RS4.0 as comparison). They are on record stating this and are not blind to critism that has been passed in the motoring media about their new electric steering. They have substancially beefed up the CL wheels and hubs/carriers. They have designed this engine for motorsport and it will likely debut in the 2014 cup cars. They have redesigned the PDK, ratios, shift software and parameters. They have a new chassis which is far better balances and they have moved the weight further forward the rear axle. They have given a 9000 rpm limited and over 475 bhp. 

    This is Porsche 50th anniverssary celebration year of the 911. No one can doubt that in the last 14 years they have given us consistently a better GT3 at every turn. Why does everyone who has not yet driven this car give so much worry to how it will be? Is it just people with 997 GT3 protecting their investment or has Porsche lost favour with its followers.

    If you complain about the electronics and technological advancements dumbing down the esperience then you should all sell your late model 911s and buy a good 964 or 993 and understand how it was before traction control, weight and longer wheel base.....

    Just IMHO of course! blush


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    macca993:

    Why does everyone who has not yet driven this car give so much worry to how it will be?

     and why do some who haven't driven the new car sings its praises?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    macca993:

    I think everyone will be suprised when they read the first driving reviews of this new GT3.

    This will be a car that is more than the sum of its parts.

    The benchmark is no longer the 3.8 GT3 or 3.8 GT3RS. Test drivers have already been quoted  to say that the new 991 GT3 moves the game on in every concievable dimension. That it is both quicker and more exciting to drive. They speak of comparisons only to the RS4.0 and infact AP has mentioned in two seperate interviews (before the car was launched at Geneva and during interviews at the even) comparisons with the RS4.0. Early test drivers were breaking 7.30 at the ring in their first drives. Porsche actually have a market positioning challenge with this car. It not only makes more than the quotes horsepower but it also substancially improves on dynamics which will cast both the Carrera GT and RS4.0 Ring lap times to light. Porsche havent announced the Ring time because they are still deciding how conservative they wish to make this. The likely announcemenet will be 7.28 or 7.27 but you can be assured the first serious german magazine to take the car to the ring with a decent driver will shave seconds off this time!

    Everyone needs to take a deep breath. They have given this car a natural steering feel reminicent of the past GT3s (again they use RS4.0 as comparison). They are on record stating this and are not blind to critism that has been passed in the motoring media about their new electric steering. They have substancially beefed up the CL wheels and hubs/carriers. They have designed this engine for motorsport and it will likely debut in the 2014 cup cars. They have redesigned the PDK, ratios, shift software and parameters. They have a new chassis which is far better balances and they have moved the weight further forward the rear axle. They have given a 9000 rpm limited and over 475 bhp. 

    This is Porsche 50th anniverssary celebration year of the 911. No one can doubt that in the last 14 years they have given us consistently a better GT3 at every turn. Why does everyone who has not yet driven this car give so much worry to how it will be? Is it just people with 997 GT3 protecting their investment or has Porsche lost favour with its followers.

    If you complain about the electronics and technological advancements dumbing down the esperience then you should all sell your late model 911s and buy a good 964 or 993 and understand how it was before traction control, weight and longer wheel base.....

    Just IMHO of course! blush

    ho.ho..your saying the German magazine will shave off even more seoncds then the 7:27/28..be sure that I will come back to you when the first test is done:

    Just some numbers - done in real testing by the Sport Auto magazine:

    1. Nex boxster: Porsche claim 7:58  Result:8:04

    2. New 991: Claim: 14 seconds..Result: 7:44 compared to 7:50 for 997.2S

    3. GT2RS: claim 7:18 - Result: 7:24

    and so on..

    This whole lap time discussion is stupid anyway..but you cant really expect journalists to perform better then factory drivers. Whatever, the result will be, it will be a good result.

    We will come back to you..but I will put down here a bet: the Sport Auto test wont give us a result below 7:30. This result will still be phenomenal.

    Reminder:; aventador - 7:24. you think the GT3 will be faster then MP4.12 and Lambo..?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    If you complain about the electronics and technological advancements dumbing down the esperience then you should all sell your late model 911s and buy a good 964 or 993 and understand how it was before traction control, weight and longer wheel base.....

    My opinion:

    this is wrong:

    997.1  GT3 jzst has a traction control - can be switched off

    all other 997 models have stability programm. which can also be swisched off..so a 997.2 GT3RS with switched off aids..is quite basic..no big difference to a 993 (except the PASM)..


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    PBS2010:

    If you factor this with the fact that the engine block (and gearbox?) in the 991 was moved forward in the car relative to where it stood in the 997 (please correct me if I am wrong), the 991 GT3 enjoys a much, much better weight distribution than the 997 3.8 GT3.

    What do you think? Smiley

    997 was 38/42

    991 is 40/60


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    macca993:

    I think everyone will be suprised when they read the first driving reviews of this new GT3.

    This will be a car that is more than the sum of its parts.

    The benchmark is no longer the 3.8 GT3 or 3.8 GT3RS. Test drivers have already been quoted  to say that the new 991 GT3 moves the game on in every concievable dimension. That it is both quicker and more exciting to drive. They speak of comparisons only to the RS4.0 and infact AP has mentioned in two seperate interviews (before the car was launched at Geneva and during interviews at the even) comparisons with the RS4.0. Early test drivers were breaking 7.30 at the ring in their first drives. Porsche actually have a market positioning challenge with this car. It not only makes more than the quotes horsepower but it also substancially improves on dynamics which will cast both the Carrera GT and RS4.0 Ring lap times to light. Porsche havent announced the Ring time because they are still deciding how conservative they wish to make this. The likely announcemenet will be 7.28 or 7.27 but you can be assured the first serious german magazine to take the car to the ring with a decent driver will shave seconds off this time!

    Everyone needs to take a deep breath. They have given this car a natural steering feel reminicent of the past GT3s (again they use RS4.0 as comparison). They are on record stating this and are not blind to critism that has been passed in the motoring media about their new electric steering. They have substancially beefed up the CL wheels and hubs/carriers. They have designed this engine for motorsport and it will likely debut in the 2014 cup cars. They have redesigned the PDK, ratios, shift software and parameters. They have a new chassis which is far better balances and they have moved the weight further forward the rear axle. They have given a 9000 rpm limited and over 475 bhp. 

    This is Porsche 50th anniverssary celebration year of the 911. No one can doubt that in the last 14 years they have given us consistently a better GT3 at every turn. Why does everyone who has not yet driven this car give so much worry to how it will be? Is it just people with 997 GT3 protecting their investment or has Porsche lost favour with its followers.

    If you complain about the electronics and technological advancements dumbing down the esperience then you should all sell your late model 911s and buy a good 964 or 993 and understand how it was before traction control, weight and longer wheel base.....

    Just IMHO of course! blush

    Wail said Smiley


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    GTlover:
    ho.ho..your saying the German magazine will shave off even more seoncds then the 7:27/28..be sure that I will come back to you when the first test is done:

    Just some numbers - done in real testing by the Sport Auto magazine:

    1. Nex boxster: Porsche claim 7:58  Result:8:04

    2. New 991: Claim: 14 seconds..Result: 7:44 compared to 7:50 for 997.2S

    3. GT2RS: claim 7:18 - Result: 7:24

    and so on..

    This whole lap time discussion is stupid anyway..but you cant really expect journalists to perform better then factory drivers. Whatever, the result will be, it will be a good result.

    We will come back to you..but I will put down here a bet: the Sport Auto test wont give us a result below 7:30. This result will still be phenomenal.

    Reminder:; aventador - 7:24. you think the GT3 will be faster then MP4.12 and Lambo..?

    Sport Auto driver is usually Horst v. Saurma. The drivers who achieved the Porsche claimed results are their own test drivers, who helped develop these cars and who of course know these cars much better than Horst v. Saurma.

    Btw: You are wrong. The new GT3 achieved 7:2x during testing (I won't provide the precise figure because I don't know who knows about it...or better said, who should know Smiley), so following your logic, it should be pretty easy for Horst v. Saurma to hit 7:30 with the new GT3. I actually don't think that he will do 7:24 in the new GT3 but 7:29 or even 7:30 flat is possible. I think this is an amazing time for this car and wait until you actually see the Hockenheim (Kleiner Kurs) time. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    RC:
    GTlover:
    ho.ho..your saying the German magazine will shave off even more seoncds then the 7:27/28..be sure that I will come back to you when the first test is done:

    Just some numbers - done in real testing by the Sport Auto magazine:

    1. Nex boxster: Porsche claim 7:58  Result:8:04

    2. New 991: Claim: 14 seconds..Result: 7:44 compared to 7:50 for 997.2S

    3. GT2RS: claim 7:18 - Result: 7:24

    and so on..

    This whole lap time discussion is stupid anyway..but you cant really expect journalists to perform better then factory drivers. Whatever, the result will be, it will be a good result.

    We will come back to you..but I will put down here a bet: the Sport Auto test wont give us a result below 7:30. This result will still be phenomenal.

    Reminder:; aventador - 7:24. you think the GT3 will be faster then MP4.12 and Lambo..?

    Sport Auto driver is usually Horst v. Saurma. The drivers who achieved the Porsche claimed results are their own test drivers, who helped develop these cars and who of course know these cars much better than Horst v. Saurma.

    Btw: You are wrong. The new GT3 achieved 7:2x during testing (I won't provide the precise figure because I don't know who knows about it...or better said, who should know Smiley), so following your logic, it should be pretty easy for Horst v. Saurma to hit 7:30 with the new GT3. I actually don't think that he will do 7:24 in the new GT3 but 7:29 or even 7:30 flat is possible. I think this is an amazing time for this car and wait until you actually see the Hockenheim (Kleiner Kurs) time. Smiley

    fully agree..I said I dont believe in a Sport Auto time below 7;30..which is phenomenal anywaySmiley

    Why:

    1) past experience shows that between Porsche factory drivers and Sport Auto there is a difference of roughly 6 seconds

    2) 7:24 is Aventador territory - no way the GT3 "basic"  can get there..

    If I was Porsche - I would give a more defensive time rather then too optimistic..otherwise future 991 GT3 owners will start "whining here"..Smiley

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Is the 40/60 balance you mention that of the 991 GT3 specifically? 

    Thanks.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    PBS2010:

    Is the 40/60 balance you mention that of the 991 GT3 specifically? 

    Thanks.

    Yes  it is the one for the GT3 


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

     

    2) 7:24 is Aventador territory - no way the GT3 "basic"  can get there..
     
    Slightly off topic but it would be good to say Lamborghini have finally made a supercar that drives well too. To get that time in a car that is so heavy, and beat the best 911 so far is a major achievement. 
     
    Back on topic, given no customer can drive the new GT3 before buying it, I think reviews such as those from Chris Harris etc are also important along with the track times. 

    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    About the extra weight on the 991 GT3, I find surprising that Porsche is not offering the light Li-ion battery as an option, contrary to what was done for the 997.2 GT3s and the Boxster Spyder.  The Li-ion battery is claimed to save about 10kg.  This 10+kg diet would be welcome especially since Mr. Andreas Preuninger said in his interview with Evo that the rear wheel drive (RWD) system demanded a bigger battery, bringing the weight of the total RWD system to 15kg from 5-6kg for the RWD device alone.

    Is there a problem or another good reason explaining that the Li-ion battery is not proposed right away on the 991 GT3?

    Any thoughts about it?  Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I think that all of you need to see what will HvS achieve on the Ring. First tests will be in Sport Auto in September issue. Supertest will follow later...

    Li-ion battery can not meet demands that new networked system needed(PDK, rear wheel steering, PTV with new electronic diff etc).

    BTW, what does 10kg means anyway? Imagine if one driver is 65kg and is less skilled then 90kg driver-who will be faster on the Ring?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    KresoF1:

    I think that all of you need to see what will HvS achieve on the Ring. First tests will be in Sport Auto in September issue. Supertest will follow later...

    Li-ion battery can not meet demands that new networked system needed(PDK, rear wheel steering, PTV with new electronic diff etc).

    BTW, what does 10kg means anyway? Imagine if one driver is 65kg and is less skilled then 90kg driver-who will be faster on the Ring?

    +++++++++++++++++++++

    I am "light weight" already (about 60kg) and working on it!

    More seriously, one cannot deny that weight is important for this car (unfortunately heavier than the prior version, but fortunately with a better weight distribution as we saw above).

    Battery aside, the optional bucket seats save about 10-15kg.

    The Li-ion battery can generate a lot of power in a much more compact format than the traditional batteries.  BTW, there are hybrid car running on it!  If the Li-ion battery on the prior generation is not powerful enough, then beef it up.  If the traditional battery was beefed up as Mr. Andreas Preuninger told Evo, I do not understand why the same cannot be done for the Li-ion battery, therefore my enquiry.

    Let me quote Porsche AG’s press release issued on 11/23/2009 on this point:

    The primary reason for developing and introducing the new battery was its lower weight. In sports cars built consistently for superior driving dynamics such as the two versions of the 911 GT3 and the Boxster Spyder, less weight naturally means even greater agility and driving dynamics. In its length and width the lithium-ion battery comes in the same dimensions as the regular battery, but is approximately 70 millimetres or 2.8” lower. The fastening points, electrical connections and voltage range are fully compatible with the respective models, allowing simple and quick replacement of the standard lead battery by the lightweight unit, for example when racing on the track. With its nominal capacity of 18 Ah, the lithium-ion battery, through its specific features, offers a level of practical output and performance not only comparable to that of a 60 Ah lead battery, but rather even better in many cases. On a conventional car battery only about 30 per cent of the total capacity is actually available for practical use due to the configuration of the system, while this restriction does not apply to the lithium-ion battery. On the contrary, through its characteristic structure – and, in particular, the independence of the chemical composition of the electrolytes from the charge status – a lithium-ion battery consistently offers almost 100 per cent of its capacity. Delivery of power by the lithium-ion battery throughout its useful charge range is likewise significantly better, providing its full power, for example, when starting the engine almost independently of the current charge level. After the engine has started, the new Porsche battery shows further benefits in the charge process, being able through its smaller internal resistance to take up more power than a conventional battery and thus re-charge more quickly.

    Yet a further benefit is that a lithium-ion battery allows a significantly greater number of charging and discharging cycles, plus the two further advantages that the self-discharging effect is lower and the service life of the battery longer. The lithium-ion battery being introduced by Porsche as the pioneer in this area is made up of wound film of carbon and iron phosphate with a ceramic film moisturised by the electrolyte serving as a separating layer in between. Compared with other types of lithium-ion batteries using a combination of manganese oxide, cobalt oxide or nickel, this lithiumiron- phosphate battery, as it is called, offers advantages when used as a starter battery. It is robust and consistently guarantees the usual voltage of 12 V in the car’s on-board network. The lightweight battery is made up of four cells and integrated control electronics. This battery management system protects the battery from major discharge and guarantees a consistent charge level within the individual cells. Once battery voltage drops below a certain threshold, a warning signal reminds the driver to re-charge the battery either simply by driving the car through the power of the engine running or by means of a conventional battery charger.

    So far, I have not read a technical explanation of a reason justifying not offering a modern light battery on the 991 GT3.

    Has anyone a clue?  Smiley

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    KresoF1:

    I think that all of you need to see what will HvS achieve on the Ring. First tests will be in Sport Auto in September issue. Supertest will follow later...

    Li-ion battery can not meet demands that new networked system needed(PDK, rear wheel steering, PTV with new electronic diff etc).

    BTW, what does 10kg means anyway? Imagine if one driver is 65kg and is less skilled then 90kg driver-who will be faster on the Ring?

    Hugh..Supertest so far away.,..why?

    What are you trying to say? - that Porsche will ask Mr HvS to go on diat just because of the 991 GT3 supertest..I mean how can you be so sure what time he will achieve..? as I said - and just observation so far - factory claims and Sport Auto tests differ roughly by 6 seconds. Why should it be different this time..Smiley

    Battery/ 10/Kg, fully agree..ar what if Mr HvS meets the evening before the test a nice blonde girl in the Hotel..the next morning he will wake up late..and screw up the Supertest..Smiley..I mean, so many things can happen that we cannot control..

    Thanks for the info..


     
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