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    Re: 991 rear window wiper necessary

    WW overborrowed to fulfill his rather megalomaniac goal of taking over the VW Group.  At the time everybody in and out of PAG were sold to his grandiose dream, until cash stalled and the loans couldn't be serviced. 

    Another lesson that excessive borrowing of individuals, companies and countries ( as we are experiencing now) is a recipe for certain disaster.

    True WW took Porsche from the brink of bankruptcy and saved it by producing better and cost effective cars. But he cannot be absolved of responsibility for the fiasco that ensued.

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 991 rear window wiper necessary


    That is a very one-sided view of the situation. If it was really that clear-cut we would not still be waiting to see whether or not any charges may be brought against him about 3 years after the event. 

    As for financial losses incurred by members of the Porsche/Piech clan, I suspect that those very people would be more inclined to say that Wiedeking was the one person who was instrumental in saving the Porsche company from being sold off cheaply or even going bust in the early 1990s, as well as in building up the company's balance sheet to the extent that it could even contemplate taking over the much larger VW group.

    I should mention that, though I appear to be sticking up for him here, I am far from being a fan of Wiedeking as a person. 

     

    Fritz:  Well, one of us is probably right.  We will perhaps get to the truth when the story is fully fleshed out and written for posterity.   Besides the charges which stubenhocker has brought to our attention, there has been various investigations in Germany that might still yield an indictment down the road.  We have seen here in the US the same slow justice process regarding market manipulation cases involving Wall Street.  But aside as to whether some of his activities were legal or not, the entire scheme was fraught with danger to the financial well being of the corporation, stockholders and workers, don't you think?  We are all well aware of the success of Herr Wiedeking in his early career at PAG.  But in the end, he destroyed all he built up...plus much of what had been accumulated in 60 years in business!  So there is no justification or excuses for Herr Wiedeking in my opinion!

    Saludos, Eduardo


    Re: 991 rear window wiper necessary

    reginos:

    WW overborrowed to fulfill his rather megalomaniac goal of taking over the VW Group.  At the time everybody in and out of PAG were sold to his grandiose dream, until cash stalled and the loans couldn't be serviced. 

    Another lesson that excessive borrowing of individuals, companies and countries ( as we are experiencing now) is a recipe for certain disaster.

    True WW took Porsche from the brink of bankruptcy and saved it by producing better and cost effective cars. But he cannot be absolved of responsibility for the fiasco that ensued.

    Agreed.  But that is not the same thing as saying that what he did was necessarily illegal, or that his over-ambitious plans necessarily cost the clan members anything when you consider the over-all effect of his time at Porsche.

    -

    fritz


    Re: 991 rear window wiper necessary

    Z356:

    Fritz:  Well, one of us is probably right.  We will perhaps get to the truth when the story is fully fleshed out and written for posterity.   Besides the charges which stubenhocker has brought to our attention, there has been various investigations in Germany that might still yield an indictment down the road.  We have seen here in the US the same slow justice process regarding market manipulation cases involving Wall Street.  But aside as to whether some of his activities were legal or not, the entire scheme was fraught with danger to the financial well being of the corporation, stockholders and workers, don't you think?  We are all well aware of the success of Herr Wiedeking in his early career at PAG.  But in the end, he destroyed all he built up...plus much of what had been accumulated in 60 years in business!  So there is no justification or excuses for Herr Wiedeking in my opinion!

    Saludos, Eduardo

    It would be correct to say that Porsche's plans to buy out VW at a time when the latter's market value was much too low were over-ambitious and that they went wrong, but I don't understand how you arrive at the conclusion that so much of the company's substance had been destroyed. Porsche's net worth  and product range were in much better shape in 2010 than they had been 20 years earlier. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: 991 rear window wiper necessary

    fritz:
    Z356:

    Fritz:  Well, one of us is probably right.  We will perhaps get to the truth when the story is fully fleshed out and written for posterity.   Besides the charges which stubenhocker has brought to our attention, there has been various investigations in Germany that might still yield an indictment down the road.  We have seen here in the US the same slow justice process regarding market manipulation cases involving Wall Street.  But aside as to whether some of his activities were legal or not, the entire scheme was fraught with danger to the financial well being of the corporation, stockholders and workers, don't you think?  We are all well aware of the success of Herr Wiedeking in his early career at PAG.  But in the end, he destroyed all he built up...plus much of what had been accumulated in 60 years in business!  So there is no justification or excuses for Herr Wiedeking in my opinion!

    Saludos, Eduardo

    It would be correct to say that Porsche's plans to buy out VW at a time when the latter's market value was much too low were over-ambitious and that they went wrong, but I don't understand how you arrive at the conclusion that so much of the company's substance had been destroyed. Porsche's net worth  and product range were in much better shape in 2010 than they had been 20 years earlier. 

    Fritz:  Let me be clear.  In my original post on the subject, I stated that Porsche will remain a viable & strong company going forward, even as a division of the greater VW Group.  What was destroyed was its independence, its reputation as a savvy corporate player (one that was able to maintain its operations going for 60 years) and part of the wealth of the founding family.  That is my point.  But keep in mind that I am well aware that PAG's independence was threatened in any case by the political forces both in the US and Europe that demanded much more efficient gasoline consumption from the auto manufacturers.  Porsche might have had to merge with someone like VW in any case in order to 'survive' by taking advantage of averaging of fuel consumption from someone that produces a high percentage of its output as econoboxes.   But Porsche would/should have had more & better 'cards' in its deck to play had this marriage been 'arranged' as opposed to being 'shotgun forced', if you get my drift!  By the way, I do agree that had there been no financial crisis in 2008, Porsche might have been successful in acquiring VW and not the other way around.  And if so, today we would have been praising WW and measuring him for a bronze statue at the gates of Zuffenhausen!  But this is not a case of 'It's better to have played and lost than not to have played at all'.  The loss had too high a price and was not worth the gamble to take on VW on the part of PAG with its limited resources!

    Saludos, Eduardo


    Re: 991 rear window wiper necessary

    I've been racking my brain trying to find the connection between "991 rear window wiper necessary" and the Porsche-VW-Wiedeking debacle. Finally, it hit me: rear window wiper provides more clarity on situation that's behind us... 

     


    Re: 991 rear window wiper necessary

    KMM:

    I've been racking my brain trying to find the connection between "991 rear window wiper necessary" and the Porsche-VW-Wiedeking debacle. Finally, it hit me: rear window wiper provides more clarity on situation that's behind us... 

     

    Smiley Smiley


    Re: 991 rear window wiper necessary

    KMM:

    I've been racking my brain trying to find the connection between "991 rear window wiper necessary" and the Porsche-VW-Wiedeking debacle. Finally, it hit me: rear window wiper provides more clarity on situation that's behind us... 

    "Off topic" subjects are always a hot topic on Rennteam.  Smiley

    I've never been a fan of the rear wiper, maybe because I think that just looking through the restricted area it clears does not provide such a clear view of what lies behind anyway.  
    That's meant to be understood figuratively as well as literally. Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: 991 rear window wiper necessary

    fritz:
    I've never been a fan of the rear wiperSmiley

    I am a big fan of the rear wiper on a 911 coupe!  It is a classic option which heralds back to the early days of the 911!  Its presence in a 991 today reminds us of the clean design & functionality incorporated into every aspect of this model, both past & present!  

    I have heard rumors that Herr Wiedeking tried to kill the rear wiper on the 911 during his tenure as CEO at Porsche, claiming that the $325 cost was too low and didn't leave enough profit for the bottom line.  Nevertheless, the oldtimers still working at Zuffenhausen went around him and kept it on the order guides against his wishes!  That is why we are talking about WW on this subject...    Smiley 23

    Saludos, Eduardo 


    Re: 991 rear window wiper necessary

    So the absence of a rear wiper on the Cabrio is a big drawback?


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 991 rear window wiper necessary

    Had it on my 996 - don't have it on my 997.

    Don't miss it.


    --

    C2S - Basalt/Black XC90 - Black/Black 2 kids, 1 dog


    Re: 991 rear window wiper necessary

    KMM:

    I've been racking my brain trying to find the connection between "991 rear window wiper necessary" and the Porsche-VW-Wiedeking debacle. Finally, it hit me: rear window wiper provides more clarity on situation that's behind us... 

     

    That is most subtle 'put-down' for going OT I've ever seen...Smiley Smiley

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: 991 rear window wiper necessary

    I initially bit my tongue or the electronic equivalent thereof, but retreading you comments I have to say:

    • You are very much in the minority with respect to your opinion re global warming, dare I say, even in the USA. The scientific evidence is overwhelming. 
    • I live in the burbs where taking public transport is not remotely practical. When we move back to Manhattan I'm sure I will use a car only ooccasionally. 
    • I must concede your point re choosing a more fuel efficient car, but given my love of Porsches I don't see a downside to saving gas while gaining performance.

    --
    997 C4S FL


    Re: 991 rear window wiper necessary

    Oh shit - we're OT again!!!

    KMM, we need you man...

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: 991 rear window wiper necessary

    John H:

    Oh shit - we're OT again!!!

     

    OK, back on track, got he rear wiper on our 997 and would rather have it than not. It parks tidily which doesn't detract from the styling, and is useful to clear the rear window if the car has been stopped in the rain or been left out overnight to clear first thing.

    --------

    Accountants are like fire and water, good servants but bad masters.

    Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"


    Re: 991 rear window wiper necessary

    dreamcar:

    OK, back on track, got he rear wiper on our 997 and would rather have it than not. It parks tidily which doesn't detract from the styling, and is useful to clear the rear window if the car has been stopped in the rain or been left out overnight to clear first thing.


    Some spirited driving in the morning will do the same. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: 991 rear window wiper necessary

    John H:

    Oh shit - we're OT again!!!

    KMM, we need you man...

     

    Not at all. This is definitely on-topic. Remember:

    Global warming --> more extreme weather --> heavy rain not only from the front, but also from the back --> rear wiper necessary.

    There!

     


    Re: 991 rear window wiper necessary

    Nice one, KMM!


    --
    997 C4S FL

    Re: 991 rear window wiper necessary

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


     
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