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    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    CGX car nut:
    nberry:

    Politically, many posters on this site are dinosaurs. They just don’t want to accept it. smiley

    Hey Pol Pot, what are you alluding too?  Death camps for those that don't align with your alleged superior political ideology

    Hey, my superior political ideology is the only one acceptable here. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    RC:
    CGX car nut:
    nberry:

    Politically, many posters on this site are dinosaurs. They just don’t want to accept it. smiley

    Hey Pol Pot, what are you alluding too?  Death camps for those that don't align with your alleged superior political ideology

    Hey, my superior political ideology is the only one acceptable here. Smiley

    That was an unacceptable personal attack on a very nice guy. It don’t mind going after the politics or people at the top. But punching down is not cool.  I am sorry for Nick to have had this type of exchange. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:
    RC:
    CGX car nut:
    nberry:

    Politically, many posters on this site are dinosaurs. They just don’t want to accept it. smiley

    Hey Pol Pot, what are you alluding too?  Death camps for those that don't align with your alleged superior political ideology

    Hey, my superior political ideology is the only one acceptable here. Smiley

    That was an unacceptable personal attack on a very nice guy. It don’t mind going after the politics or people at the top. But punching down is not cool.  I am sorry for Nick to have had this type of exchange. 

    My how quick one moves away from his publicly stated political views when the winds shift direction. You’re old enough and lived close enough to understand how this county is at a dangerous precipice.  History has shown what happens too many times.  

     


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    CGX car nut:
    Leawood911:
    RC:
    CGX car nut:
    nberry:

    Politically, many posters on this site are dinosaurs. They just don’t want to accept it. smiley

    Hey Pol Pot, what are you alluding too?  Death camps for those that don't align with your alleged superior political ideology

    Hey, my superior political ideology is the only one acceptable here. Smiley

    That was an unacceptable personal attack on a very nice guy. It don’t mind going after the politics or people at the top. But punching down is not cool.  I am sorry for Nick to have had this type of exchange. 

    My how quick one moves away from his publicly stated political views when the winds shift direction. You’re old enough and lived close enough to understand how this county is at a dangerous precipice.  History has shown what happens too many times.  

     

    Nick is a wonderful person. He is genuine and has the best of intentions. I totally get why he and many others seem misguided. It works both ways. The trick is to shift the debate to policy, economics and long term consequences of decisions. Stick to the facts. 
    Not for I second have I changed my political views. Not at all. I also learned the hard way that politics of personal destruction and going after anything other than policy is a win for the left.  If you want to win then start by making peace on a personal level and make logical policy discussions the playing field. That way the citizens will win as better ideas are more productive than even the most successful personal attack.  While the left engaged in a brilliant and world class war on Trump and his voters personally I don’t think anyone will benefit from the change in policies.  But they will love Biden - especially if he is rude or personally attack Fox media like their White House reporter.   Watch for it. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Back to Taycan stuff.  I have been reflecting on my recent Taycan turbo launch experiences, I’d have to say that overall I have negative feelings about it. The acceleration jolt was so extreme that it was unpleasant, and in the real world unnecessary and out of place. I honestly believe that acceleration comparisons, 0 to 60 times, etc., lead to controversy, angry comparisons, bragging and even recklessness. I may change my mind, but that’s my view now. Comments welcomed...


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Wonderbar:

    Back to Taycan stuff.  I have been reflecting on my recent Taycan turbo launch experiences, I’d have to say that overall I have negative feelings about it. The acceleration jolt was so extreme that it was unpleasant, and in the real world unnecessary and out of place. I honestly believe that acceleration comparisons, 0 to 60 times, etc., lead to controversy, angry comparisons, bragging and even recklessness. I may change my mind, but that’s my view now. Comments welcomed...

    I have exited my car after just a couple of quick starts in a cold dizzy sweat as though I was about to black out. My guess is we will see lots of this. It can be very unpleasant. Do not do this to Senior  citizens, it will hurt them. 
    Golden opportunity to give this sensation a name - any suggestions or top 10 list anyone?


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Wonderbar:

    Back to Taycan stuff.  I have been reflecting on my recent Taycan turbo launch experiences, I’d have to say that overall I have negative feelings about it. The acceleration jolt was so extreme that it was unpleasant, and in the real world unnecessary and out of place. I honestly believe that acceleration comparisons, 0 to 60 times, etc., lead to controversy, angry comparisons, bragging and even recklessness. I may change my mind, but that’s my view now. Comments welcomed...

    I loved the acceleration but I get your point.

    My Trackhawk is not a Taycan Turbo but the launch is at least that extreme, maybe even more because it feels unreal.

    When my truck was properly run in, I took my wife with me for a ride to a nearby lake. At a stop light, I fully accelerated (no launch control but it isn't really necessary) just for fun and my wife started shouting at me, the experience wasn't pleasant for her. At all. She is used to my driving, this is the first time she did this. The instant acceleration is violent and unpleasant for some people, this seems to be true. In most cars, there is a slight delay in acceleration and it doesn't matter if it is a long second or just a fraction of a second but there is always a minor lag before the car pulls off.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    See my earlier post about EV versus ICE torque curves.  What you are describing is what many automotive engineers in the States call tip-in.  The pause is caused by a number of factors and some of the delay is designed into the product to alleviate unintended acceleration issues.   This is also the point made about the revised Tesla Model S Plaid(+) with 0 to 60 mph times under 2.0 seconds.  Most passengers aren’t used to the sudden g-loading and individuals with underlying health conditions can encounter an adverse event. Beyond bragging rights there is little real world benefits with these performance criteria.  


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    CGX car nut:

    See my earlier post about EV versus ICE torque curves.  What you are describing is what many automotive engineers in the States call tip-in.  The pause is caused by a number of factors and some of the delay is designed into the product to alleviate unintended acceleration issues.   This is also the point made about the revised Tesla Model S Plaid(+) with 0 to 60 mph times under 2.0 seconds.  Most passengers aren’t used to the sudden g-loading and individuals with underlying health conditions can encounter an adverse event. Beyond bragging rights there is little real world benefits with these performance criteria.  

    Better be careful here.... too much description of these phenomena could lead regulators to push for G force limiters in all cars.... it would be hugely ironic if it were EV technology that caused this to happen, not supercars. 


    --

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2019 Porsche 911 Turbo


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    That would be ironic but the outcome of living in a nanny state.  Not sure if you have followed Ezra Levant but his latest shows are quite interesting within that framework.  

    EVs present a series of issues, in terms of performance, than those compared with ICEs.  The torque characteristics of EVs coupled with almost instantaneous feedback control loops for the traction control mean an EV can apportion torque up to traction limits of the tire.  That's different from an ICE where torque is either too low or too high.  Both conditions lead to less than optimal levels of torque being transmitted to the road.  This is why most ICEs acceleration is less than the optimal traction loading found under braking.  With many EVs there is no difference in braking and acceleration torque loadings.  

    It is only a matter of time before the Joan Claybrooks enact restrictive regulations on EVs.  


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:
    CGX car nut:
    Leawood911:
    RC:
    CGX car nut:
    nberry:

    Politically, many posters on this site are dinosaurs. They just don’t want to accept it. smiley

    Hey Pol Pot, what are you alluding too?  Death camps for those that don't align with your alleged superior political ideology

    Hey, my superior political ideology is the only one acceptable here. Smiley

    That was an unacceptable personal attack on a very nice guy. It don’t mind going after the politics or people at the top. But punching down is not cool.  I am sorry for Nick to have had this type of exchange. 

    My how quick one moves away from his publicly stated political views when the winds shift direction. You’re old enough and lived close enough to understand how this county is at a dangerous precipice.  History has shown what happens too many times.  

     

    Nick is a wonderful person. He is genuine and has the best of intentions. I totally get why he and many others seem misguided. It works both ways. The trick is to shift the debate to policy, economics and long term consequences of decisions. Stick to the facts. 
    Not for I second have I changed my political views. Not at all. I also learned the hard way that politics of personal destruction and going after anything other than policy is a win for the left.  If you want to win then start by making peace on a personal level and make logical policy discussions the playing field. That way the citizens will win as better ideas are more productive than even the most successful personal attack.  While the left engaged in a brilliant and world class war on Trump and his voters personally I don’t think anyone will benefit from the change in policies.  But they will love Biden - especially if he is rude or personally attack Fox media like their White House reporter.   Watch for it. 

    Hey Mike, maybe after a year in office Biden's actions will change your mind.Smiley

    As for CGX, I saw his comment and chose not to respond. His response to my post (which was done in jest) was so extreme, I knew my post had resonated with him. Very satisfying.Smiley


    --

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    The Theatre of the Absurd and not in the direction you had intended.


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/general-motors-phase-out-gas-vehicles-2035/

     

    Maybe repost..


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Audi E-tron GT reveal coming up a week from Tuesday on February 9th. (thought I would just post it here since it is pretty much a taycan version 2 )

    I hope the production model looks as good (or better) than the prototype. Even if the usual pattern of the production model looking much more bland than the prototype is followed, it could still be the best looking EV on the market.


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    One thing is certain with the Audi e-tron GT - it has a real steering wheel.  


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    CGX car nut:

    One thing is certain with the Audi e-tron GT - it has a real steering wheel.  

    I’m starting to think the fucked up wheel is a brilliant distraction from the old batteries being used in all of them except the plaid+.   How is that for being a fair observer?  
    All you need to fix this shortcoming is a banana shaped extender.  (Where have I heard that before?)


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    I think the U-shaped wheel is kind of cool.


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Leawood911:
    CGX car nut:

    One thing is certain with the Audi e-tron GT - it has a real steering wheel.  

    I’m starting to think the fucked up wheel is a brilliant distraction from the old batteries being used in all of them except the plaid+.   How is that for being a fair observer?  
    All you need to fix this shortcoming is a banana shaped extender.  (Where have I heard that before?)

    Wait, what ?!  The new battery design is only going into the plaid+ !    Had not caught that detail. As far as being a fair observer; that's a pretty good example.


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Wonderbar:

    I think the U-shaped wheel is kind of cool.

    +1

    The usual Tesla bashing.


    --

    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Wonderbar:

    I think the U-shaped wheel is kind of cool.

    It looks cool but how does it blend...oops...drive? Smiley

    I think it is pretty cool from Tesla to make a Tesla S Plaid model. This is highly impressive I have to say.

    Let's be blunt here (and I know many Porsche fans won't like it): Shouldn't we see such a tech and performance from a company like Porsche? Smiley Smiley

    I understand schmoell that he doesn't want his Taycan anymore. Just imagine you pay 240k EUR for a Taycan Turbo S and a Tesla S Plaid is next to you and makes you cry. I know that the Taycan Turbo S is a beautiful high quality car but Porsche needs to up their game for the prices they are asking. Too expensive and the technology isn't really better than Tesla's one, especially in view of the development potential and billions of development money of VW Group. What a shame.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    <sarcastic mode on>The main problem of large corporation is, that they can not hire smart people for two reasons. 1st They are not able to give those people the freedom that they want/need and 2nd they are not able to pay them accordingly. Just think about the discussions at such a company if an engineer would earn more than a C-guy. The smart move of Tesla (and others) is to just don't care and hire the talents and if they are expensive, so be it. Corporations like to invest their money in powerpoint slides and not brains. In fact, I'd argue that corporations hate smart people, because they are not replaceable . </sarcastic mode off>

    Cheers 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    schmoell:

    <sarcastic mode on>The main problem of large corporation is, that they can not hire smart people for two reasons. 1st They are not able to give those people the freedom that they want/need and 2nd they are not able to pay them accordingly. Just think about the discussions at such a company if an engineer would earn more than a C-guy. The smart move of Tesla (and others) is to just don't care and hire the talents and if they are expensive, so be it. Corporations like to invest their money in powerpoint slides and not brains. In fact, I'd argue that corporations hate smart people, because they are not replaceable . </sarcastic mode off>

    Cheers 

    Sarcastic mode...clever. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Porsche needs to up their came and create their version of Happy Revenge Of The Fifth! Spaceballs, The Druish Star Wars | Buzznet |  Funny movies, Mel brooks movies, Love movie


    --

    2016 Porsche 991 Carrera GTS  Black with AeroKit Cup Package,  2020 Porsche Cayenne Coupe Quartzite Grey Metallic, New York


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    bobr:

    Porsche needs to up their came and create their version of Happy Revenge Of The Fifth! Spaceballs, The Druish Star Wars | Buzznet |  Funny movies, Mel brooks movies, Love movie

    Why?  Porsches weren’t into straight line speed.  Instead Porsches were and are designed for speed from one point to another with reliability.  That’s what wins track events, not a handful of 0-60 mph or quarter mile times. 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    If Porsche wants to sell their EVs, they need to come up with something clever. You cannot compare sports cars to regular cars (Tesla S, Taycan, e-tron, etc.)


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Porsche will sell its EV’s, and other “regular” cars because they are “regular” cars with racing engineering and performance.  
     

    With regard to the silly Tesla versus Porsche acceleration comparison, they are two different cars for different markets. And I hope that all EV manufacturers, regardless of their particular markets, will learn from each other and produce a better product for everyone to enjoy­čĹŹ


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    With EV , acceleration is not going the be what makes the difference, as they will all accelerate about the same. 

    It will eventually  be mainly  about the software offer/integration . That's why Tesla is evaluated so much. They are way in advance in this sector, other's will HAVE  to follow the same path or they are dead. Full integration of all components, and not anymore hundreds of different ones from different manufacturers. 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    RC:

    If Porsche wants to sell their EVs, they need to come up with something clever. You cannot compare sports cars to regular cars (Tesla S, Taycan, e-tron, etc.)

    Porsche didn’t make an EV sports car, instead is built a sports saloon positioned below the larger Panamera. However, Porsche’s interpretation of a sports saloon leans more towards the 911 feel than others. However, overall distinctiveness is reduced to design and build quality since EV drivetrains are somewhat commoditised when compared with the variations available with internal combustion engines.  


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Gnil:

    With EV , acceleration is not going the be what makes the difference, as they will all accelerate about the same. 

    It will eventually  be mainly  about the software offer/integration . That's why Tesla is evaluated so much. They are way in advance in this sector, other's will HAVE  to follow the same path or they are dead. Full integration of all components, and not anymore hundreds of different ones from different manufacturers. 

    +1


    --

    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White


    Re: Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!

    Gnil:

    With EV , acceleration is not going the be what makes the difference, as they will all accelerate about the same. 

    It will eventually  be mainly  about the software offer/integration . That's why Tesla is evaluated so much. They are way in advance in this sector, other's will HAVE  to follow the same path or they are dead. Full integration of all components, and not anymore hundreds of different ones from different manufacturers. 

     

    I agreed with this point too, one reason I am sticking to the Taycan 4S instead of doing my usual thing and go for the top trim, turbo S or even turbo.

    But with that metric gone, the next one down the list will be fit and finish and luxury feel. This the Taycan has no equal, Audi come close however.

    Next step down will be the infrastructure. On one hand Tesla seems to be in the lead, with their vast charging network, but on the other hand, the Taycan uses industry standard plugs, without carrying and using an adapter, that's a major selling point.

    Car OS is mostly a moot point with CarPlay and the Google equivalent, as long as the stuff works, it's fine. Satellite radio, HD radio are all standard equipment everywhere anyways. But the equipment used, i.e. speakers, will make a major difference in the audio quality.

    Components issue is another double headed sword. Vertical integration seems nice, everything in-house for control and quick revisions. 3rd party suppliers have their advantages too, they could be cheaper on cost with economies of scale. Or they could be more advanced in technology by virtue of specialization. 

    Ride and handling is harder to slot in, someone's metric may not be another's, some like it firmer while others like it more floaty or compliant. But the key is what the buyer look for, a comfortable cruiser, a corner carving beast, or just a basic city transportation that absorb potholes like they weren't there. 


    --

     

     


     
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