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    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    ^ I agree with pmarkow.  For those who wants to drive a sport car and carry kids, pets, golf, etc, then a panamera turbo S is the answer, not a GT3 with rear seat and without wing.  Any kids that are over 10 yo will not prefer to be at the back of a 911 for long trip.

    Family trips are very different than track driving.  In fact, I don't even prefer to use my GT3RS for street driving.


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    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    Who said anything about LONG TRIPS? I have a two seat Porsche that I can barely use because it would be impossible to put either of my kids in it. I would have to change seats, add a car seat and then only be able to take one. Until they are 4'10" and 80lbs by law they have to be in car seats. And I have two boys, which one gets to ride with dad?

    The simple fact of the matter is that outside of a dedicated track car I probably won't buy a car I can't put my wife and two boys into at least in a pinch. At 5 and 1.5 years old, that's quite a while.

    So the only 911 I will buy has to have a back seat. I like doing track days and my wife would like to try them as well. I could certainly use the vast majority of a GT3's potential and would worry about tracking a standard 911 to the degree I'm able to. I can't however buy a GT3 because there is no rear seat. So I'm stuck with either getting a Turbo, which isn't really my thing (and really no more track credible than a standard 911), or getting a car that probably isn't as fast as I am almost out of the gate. 

    So yes, I"d like a GT3 with no wing (especially if I"m not giving up downforce) and with a rear seat. I've driven a Panamera on the track and no, it's NOT the answer to MY question.


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    ^ if you want a one sport car to do it all, then you already know your answer - a 911 turbo.

    some people do not like the turbo lag on track driving, but it catches up nicely on the long straight. 

    if you do a search on its track performance, a 911 turbo and turbo S produce comparable track time to a GT3 while offering you a different driving experience.

    I do not think Porsche will answer YOUR question directly though.


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    BTW, I never believe that one car can serve all the driving needs.  It will never happen.

    It is like driving with all season tires.  A compromise for the summer and for the winter.


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    Hmm, my FF can just about serve all my driving needs.  Reasonable fast enough, handles reasonably enough, reasonably roomy enough.


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    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    Targa Tim:

    ^ if you want a one sport car to do it all, then you already know your answer - a 911 turbo.

    some people do not like the turbo lag on track driving, but it catches up nicely on the long straight. 

    if you do a search on its track performance, a 911 turbo and turbo S produce comparable track time to a GT3 while offering you a different driving experience.

    I do not think Porsche will answer YOUR question directly though.

    If he wants to drive a GT3 and not have it sit in the garage most of the time because he sometimes needs seats to put his wife and two boys, who are you to tell him that he needs to drive a 991 Turbo then? he just wants rear seats (which do not alter neither the performance nor the experience for the driver BTW), not a turbocharged engine and AWD Smiley


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    I'm not telling him what he needs, but voicing my opinion on a car forum.  I always thought discussion is good.yes

    Nobody needs to listen to me about what car to buy.  In fact, I never ask anyone about car buying advise as I think it is stupid.  Who will know more than myself what I need.

    Anyway, track driving is about light weight and handling.  Family transportation is about safety, comfort and storage.  Anything in between is a compromise.  If you have a better suggestion, then I want to hear about it.

    There have been people that have installed rear seats and seat belts onto their GT3, so it is do-able.  I just don't think Porsche will do it for a very small market.  But who knows. GT3 is now PDK and very easy to drive.


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    Tim

     

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    You can't put the seats in legally though. Get in an accident and you're screwed.

    I have family transport covered. A nice, boring ML350 diesel that fits all of our crap when we go to our cottage or when we go skiing etc...

    We live in downtown Toronto. That means I"ve got one parking space at our house that's protected and safe and after that it's street parking. Quite frankly I don't want to have three or four cars and have to park them on the street and move them around all the time and leave them unprotected to anyone passing by. There's three 911s that park on the street within a block of my house so they don't really get looked at but a huge-winged GT3 would...

    So yes, for my needs, a four seat 911 which isn't a turbo and isn't 4-wheel drive and has a track ability and is in manual (my preference and BY FAR my wife's preference way more than mine) and can still be driven on the street (and driven on the street by my wife who wouldn't be caught dead driving a car with a wing like an RS) would be perfect. It's one car that is capable of doing the most number of things adequately well. I know though that a GTS or Turbo is probably the only cars that would come close so that is the direction I'd probably have to go as what I really want isn't there. 


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    ^ if this 911 R has 4 seats and manual, then it will fulfill all your driving needs.  Tell Whoopsy to buy one and then buy it from him in a few years.cool

    how about renting or buying another parking stall? ( I lived at Bay and Wellesley for 4 yrs while attending U of T med school)

    lots of U of T students live downtown Toronto and they don't have cars, so hopefully there will be some vacant parking stalls.

    I drove your Canadian Tire track 2 years ago and loved it.  Good elevation changes but yet enough straight away to use some power.kiss


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    Carlos from Spain:
    Lars997:
    Carlos from Spain:
    pmarkow:
     

    honestly, i do not get the 'GT3 (RS) without rear wing and with rear seats discussion'. this totally misses the point of the GT cars. a panamera will do the job much better (although it has a small rear wing). the next step will be a GT3 - SUV with sun-roof, for soccer moms and the like.

    Nobody cares what they call it, they want the car not the badge. Its as simple as some people wanting a sportier version of a Carrera, without the limitations of a GT3 like lack of rear seats for your kids or for other the GT3 looks which may be a bit to flashy for some, etc.
    Who cares what the point of the GT cars are, some GT3RS drivers could say the same thing about the regular GT3, nobody is saying this version has to be called a GT3 car, call it a future GTS or 911R or whatever. As to the Panamera comment, I really hope you are joking if you want to be taken seriously... 

    As far as I see it, the GTS is exactly in this position. It is a sportier non GT3 911. Yes, the engine is still a bit different, but come on - it is damn close. Also the normal GT3 is barely daily drivable and really already very rough, while the GTS is the compromise of all - very sporty,still usable. The 911R is a limited version, so whatever it will be, it is a car which will damn in the Garages not on the street - unfortunately!

    Right, thats precisely why I choose the GTS myself, but lots of people would welcome a GTS-like build but with GT3's engine and tranny though. I agree with the 911R too, most will end up as garage queens unfortunately due to their low production and inflated pricetag.

    to continue your line of argument, once we have a four seater GT car then why not an SUV-GT version? after all, think of a family with three kids and dad wants to do track days, some mild off-roading and mom wants to pick up the kids in style from the soccer playground. and why should they buy more than one car for their needs???? certainly porsche should oblige.....or no?


    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    pmarkow:
    Carlos from Spain:
    Lars997:
    Carlos from Spain:
    pmarkow:
     

    honestly, i do not get the 'GT3 (RS) without rear wing and with rear seats discussion'. this totally misses the point of the GT cars. a panamera will do the job much better (although it has a small rear wing). the next step will be a GT3 - SUV with sun-roof, for soccer moms and the like.

    Nobody cares what they call it, they want the car not the badge. Its as simple as some people wanting a sportier version of a Carrera, without the limitations of a GT3 like lack of rear seats for your kids or for other the GT3 looks which may be a bit to flashy for some, etc.
    Who cares what the point of the GT cars are, some GT3RS drivers could say the same thing about the regular GT3, nobody is saying this version has to be called a GT3 car, call it a future GTS or 911R or whatever. As to the Panamera comment, I really hope you are joking if you want to be taken seriously... 

    As far as I see it, the GTS is exactly in this position. It is a sportier non GT3 911. Yes, the engine is still a bit different, but come on - it is damn close. Also the normal GT3 is barely daily drivable and really already very rough, while the GTS is the compromise of all - very sporty,still usable. The 911R is a limited version, so whatever it will be, it is a car which will damn in the Garages not on the street - unfortunately!

    Right, thats precisely why I choose the GTS myself, but lots of people would welcome a GTS-like build but with GT3's engine and tranny though. I agree with the 911R too, most will end up as garage queens unfortunately due to their low production and inflated pricetag.

    to continue your line of argument, once we have a four seater GT car then why not an SUV-GT version? after all, think of a family with three kids and dad wants to do track days, some mild off-roading and mom wants to pick up the kids in style from the soccer playground. and why should they buy more than one car for their needs???? certainly porsche should oblige.....or no?

    Sure, while we are at it we can put wings and jet engine on it so it can also fly you around the world and make it submersible like James Bond's Lotus for those summer days at the beach or lake... I think you kind of missed my line of argument of a GTS like Carrera with a GT3 engine and tranny for those wanting something more hard core than the current Carrera versions while still retaining the rear seat cushions. I thought it was quite simple...


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    Mithras:

    You can't put the seats in legally though. Get in an accident and you're screwed.

    I have family transport covered. A nice, boring ML350 diesel that fits all of our crap when we go to our cottage or when we go skiing etc...

    We live in downtown Toronto. That means I"ve got one parking space at our house that's protected and safe and after that it's street parking. Quite frankly I don't want to have three or four cars and have to park them on the street and move them around all the time and leave them unprotected to anyone passing by. There's three 911s that park on the street within a block of my house so they don't really get looked at but a huge-winged GT3 would...

    So yes, for my needs, a four seat 911 which isn't a turbo and isn't 4-wheel drive and has a track ability and is in manual (my preference and BY FAR my wife's preference way more than mine) and can still be driven on the street (and driven on the street by my wife who wouldn't be caught dead driving a car with a wing like an RS) would be perfect. It's one car that is capable of doing the most number of things adequately well. I know though that a GTS or Turbo is probably the only cars that would come close so that is the direction I'd probably have to go as what I really want isn't there. 

     

    hmm, she likes holding a 'stick', just tell her to hold yours every night. Smiley


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    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    Targa Tim:

    ^ if this 911 R has 4 seats and manual, then it will fulfill all your driving needs.  Tell Whoopsy to buy one and then buy it from him in a few years.cool

    how about renting or buying another parking stall? ( I lived at Bay and Wellesley for 4 yrs while attending U of T med school)

    lots of U of T students live downtown Toronto and they don't have cars, so hopefully there will be some vacant parking stalls.

    I drove your Canadian Tire track 2 years ago and loved it.  Good elevation changes but yet enough straight away to use some power.kiss

     

    Mosport is fun. That uphill back 'straight' is addictive. HP country.


    --

     

     


    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    Whoopsy:
    Mithras:

    You can't put the seats in legally though. Get in an accident and you're screwed.

    I have family transport covered. A nice, boring ML350 diesel that fits all of our crap when we go to our cottage or when we go skiing etc...

    We live in downtown Toronto. That means I"ve got one parking space at our house that's protected and safe and after that it's street parking. Quite frankly I don't want to have three or four cars and have to park them on the street and move them around all the time and leave them unprotected to anyone passing by. There's three 911s that park on the street within a block of my house so they don't really get looked at but a huge-winged GT3 would...

    So yes, for my needs, a four seat 911 which isn't a turbo and isn't 4-wheel drive and has a track ability and is in manual (my preference and BY FAR my wife's preference way more than mine) and can still be driven on the street (and driven on the street by my wife who wouldn't be caught dead driving a car with a wing like an RS) would be perfect. It's one car that is capable of doing the most number of things adequately well. I know though that a GTS or Turbo is probably the only cars that would come close so that is the direction I'd probably have to go as what I really want isn't there. 

     

    hmm, she likes holding a 'stick', just tell her to hold yours every night. Smiley

    Smiley As long as she doesn't try to push in the clutch!

    She understands my affinity to Porsche but doesn't share it to any significant degree. If she had her way we'd have a Manual DB9 2+2. And THOSE rear seats make the back of a 911 look like the back of a Range Rover!


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    My duffle bag won't even fit in the rear seat of a Aston!


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    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    Carlos from Spain:
    pmarkow:
    Carlos from Spain:
    Lars997:
    Carlos from Spain:
    pmarkow:
     

    honestly, i do not get the 'GT3 (RS) without rear wing and with rear seats discussion'. this totally misses the point of the GT cars. a panamera will do the job much better (although it has a small rear wing). the next step will be a GT3 - SUV with sun-roof, for soccer moms and the like.

    Nobody cares what they call it, they want the car not the badge. Its as simple as some people wanting a sportier version of a Carrera, without the limitations of a GT3 like lack of rear seats for your kids or for other the GT3 looks which may be a bit to flashy for some, etc.
    Who cares what the point of the GT cars are, some GT3RS drivers could say the same thing about the regular GT3, nobody is saying this version has to be called a GT3 car, call it a future GTS or 911R or whatever. As to the Panamera comment, I really hope you are joking if you want to be taken seriously... 

    As far as I see it, the GTS is exactly in this position. It is a sportier non GT3 911. Yes, the engine is still a bit different, but come on - it is damn close. Also the normal GT3 is barely daily drivable and really already very rough, while the GTS is the compromise of all - very sporty,still usable. The 911R is a limited version, so whatever it will be, it is a car which will damn in the Garages not on the street - unfortunately!

    Right, thats precisely why I choose the GTS myself, but lots of people would welcome a GTS-like build but with GT3's engine and tranny though. I agree with the 911R too, most will end up as garage queens unfortunately due to their low production and inflated pricetag.

    to continue your line of argument, once we have a four seater GT car then why not an SUV-GT version? after all, think of a family with three kids and dad wants to do track days, some mild off-roading and mom wants to pick up the kids in style from the soccer playground. and why should they buy more than one car for their needs???? certainly porsche should oblige.....or no?

    Sure, while we are at it we can put wings and jet engine on it so it can also fly you around the world and make it submersible like James Bond's Lotus for those summer days at the beach or lake... I think you kind of missed my line of argument of a GTS like Carrera with a GT3 engine and tranny for those wanting something more hard core than the current Carrera versions while still retaining the rear seat cushions. I thought it was quite simple...

    it is quite simple but totally wrong IMHO. anyway the argument is meaningless. porsche will give the world even a GT- SUV in targa version if they are sure there will be enough buyers for it.

    peter


    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    Targa Tim:

    ^ I agree with pmarkow.  For those who wants to drive a sport car and carry kids, pets, golf, etc, then a panamera turbo S is the answer, not a GT3 with rear seat and without wing.  Any kids that are over 10 yo will not prefer to be at the back of a 911 for long trip.

    Family trips are very different than track driving.  In fact, I don't even prefer to use my GT3RS for street driving.

    Are you are multi-millionaire? I'm not. Why would you want family fathers not to be able to enjoy a sports car? Many can barely afford a GT3 and you want them to drive a Panamera instead? You must be kidding.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    RC:
    Targa Tim:

    ^ I agree with pmarkow.  For those who wants to drive a sport car and carry kids, pets, golf, etc, then a panamera turbo S is the answer, not a GT3 with rear seat and without wing.  Any kids that are over 10 yo will not prefer to be at the back of a 911 for long trip.

    Family trips are very different than track driving.  In fact, I don't even prefer to use my GT3RS for street driving.

    Are you are multi-millionaire? I'm not. Why would you want family fathers not to be able to enjoy a sports car? Many can barely afford a GT3 and you want them to drive a Panamera instead? You must be kidding.

    I do not see your point of argument at all.

    Do you know what define a good track car?

    Some people who bought a GT3 and RS will strip the interior in order to lose more weight to enhance its performance.  There is a good reason that Porsche does not make them with 4 seats.  It is not my problem that Porsche does not produce them. 

    I never said people with family should not enjoy sport cars.  Panamera turbo S is a good sport car.  911 turbo is a good sport car.  GTS is a good sport car.  Buy anything that you like or you tell Porsche to custom make one for you.

    BTW, whether you or anyone else is a millionaire or not is totally irrelevant to me.  It has nothing to do with car discussions.

     


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    Targa Tim:
    RC:
    Targa Tim:

    ^ I agree with pmarkow.  For those who wants to drive a sport car and carry kids, pets, golf, etc, then a panamera turbo S is the answer, not a GT3 with rear seat and without wing.  Any kids that are over 10 yo will not prefer to be at the back of a 911 for long trip.

    Family trips are very different than track driving.  In fact, I don't even prefer to use my GT3RS for street driving.

    Are you are multi-millionaire? I'm not. Why would you want family fathers not to be able to enjoy a sports car? Many can barely afford a GT3 and you want them to drive a Panamera instead? You must be kidding.

    I do not see your point of argument at all.

    Do you know what define a good track car?

    Some people who bought a GT3 and RS will strip the interior in order to lose more weight to enhance its performance.  There is a good reason that Porsche does not make them with 4 seats.  It is not my problem that Porsche does not produce them. 

    I never said people with family should not enjoy sport cars.  Panamera turbo S is a good sport car.  911 turbo is a good sport car.  GTS is a good sport car.  Buy anything that you like or you tell Porsche to custom make one for you.

    BTW, whether you or anyone else is a millionaire or not is totally irrelevant to me.  It has nothing to do with car discussions.

     

    Absolutely agreed... Lightness is key in sportscars, excess weight, seats or passengers have no place in true sportscars, which is at least what an 'R' Porsche is supposed to be, the original was stripped to the bone...


    --

    2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2013 MINI John Cooper Works GP / 2014 BMW Alpina D3 biturbo Touring


    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    Whoopsy:
    Targa Tim:

    ^ if this 911 R has 4 seats and manual, then it will fulfill all your driving needs.  Tell Whoopsy to buy one and then buy it from him in a few years.cool

    how about renting or buying another parking stall? ( I lived at Bay and Wellesley for 4 yrs while attending U of T med school)

    lots of U of T students live downtown Toronto and they don't have cars, so hopefully there will be some vacant parking stalls.

    I drove your Canadian Tire track 2 years ago and loved it.  Good elevation changes but yet enough straight away to use some power.kiss

     

    Mosport is fun. That uphill back 'straight' is addictive. HP country.

    Also from the TO area originally, now in Victoria and part time Colorado, spent lots of time at Mosport both watching and driving... The uphill back straight is a rush! Looking forward to the GAIN track on the Island...


    --

     

    2010 997.2 GT3        2012  987.2 S BE #262/987        2016 981 GT4

     


    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    Nacelle1:
     

    Also from the TO area originally, now in Victoria and part time Colorado, spent lots of time at Mosport both watching and driving... The uphill back straight is a rush! Looking forward to the GAIN track on the Island...


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    2010 997.2 GT3        2012  987.2 S BE #262/987        2016 981 GT4

     

     

    Then you will be very disappointed with the Island track.

    It sits on just over 60 acres of land, 19 turns and I believe the longest straight is slightly over 200m long. Most cars will complete a lap in under 1 minute and probably can't even get to 3rd gear. A bunch of short straights connected by a lot of corners. A glorified go-kart track. Or autocross track.

     

    DSC_2659.jpg


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    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    That's the kind of track where my 73 911 would be great (GT4 too, if regeared)


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    We have this little track where I live: it takes about 40s to go round it but it is kind of fun because you really can press your car and really concentrate on doing a corner perfect since it is just 38 seconds until you are back at the corner again.

    But on the other hand I really enjoy the Nordschleife, where you might have to wait 10 minutes to get back to the corner you just failed, forgotten what you intended to do and you finally fail at the same corner again.


    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    Targa Tim:
    RC:
    Targa Tim:

    ^ I agree with pmarkow.  For those who wants to drive a sport car and carry kids, pets, golf, etc, then a panamera turbo S is the answer, not a GT3 with rear seat and without wing.  Any kids that are over 10 yo will not prefer to be at the back of a 911 for long trip.

    Family trips are very different than track driving.  In fact, I don't even prefer to use my GT3RS for street driving.

    Are you are multi-millionaire? I'm not. Why would you want family fathers not to be able to enjoy a sports car? Many can barely afford a GT3 and you want them to drive a Panamera instead? You must be kidding.

    I do not see your point of argument at all.

    Do you know what define a good track car?

    90% (at least) of the drivers of "good" track cars would be better advised to invest that money into a proper driver training. Smiley I can "destroy" at least 75% of the "good" track car drivers on the track in my GTS cab. Smiley

    I think many amateur drivers make the mistake of going overkill with the hardware they use. Also, I think that many also confuse a good track car with a good racing car. Look at the Hockenheim time of the new 991.2 Carrera S compared to the GT3/GT3 RS and you may understand what I mean.

    Some people who bought a GT3 and RS will strip the interior in order to lose more weight to enhance its performance.  There is a good reason that Porsche does not make them with 4 seats.  It is not my problem that Porsche does not produce them. 

    These people are nuts. Unless they are really good drivers and most of them are not. 

    I never said people with family should not enjoy sport cars.  Panamera turbo S is a good sport car.  911 turbo is a good sport car.  GTS is a good sport car.  Buy anything that you like or you tell Porsche to custom make one for you.

    Panamera Turbo S is a good car for it's class but it is no sports car. It is the closest thing to a sports car you can get in this class indeed but still no sports car. The GTS is a different story of course but still not a track car. Sometimes, I just want to have the best engine and best chassis but also have some room for my kids or at least some luggage.

    BTW, whether you or anyone else is a millionaire or not is totally irrelevant to me.  It has nothing to do with car discussions.

     

    Of course it does. A multi-millionaire can afford owning a GT3 RS and a Panamera Turbo S and a Cayenne Turbo S. I can only afford owning one of these. You get my point. This means that if I want a GT3 RS, I have to compromise on my kids and luggage room and I don't want that. Porsche is all about choices. Not offering a rear seat option for some idiotic reasons is just dumb. This is pure marketing, nothing else.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    I don't think that not offering rear seats in GT3 RS is dumb yes Many track cars are being towed to the track. GT3RS is track oriented car. I don't know who possibly would want to make a trip with luggage, kids and dogs in a GT3RS. If one wants a high performance car, but more suited for multiple targets, should take 911 Turbo S. Why put rear seats in GT3RS, just because it has a 911 body and it's possible to put it in?? I'm pretty sure, that most of the GT3RS owners owns more that one car and can find other solutions to make a trips with kids and luggage. I think there are enough 911's version for each taste and some of the 911 must stay "street race" cars as much as possible. Otherwise, we should think about an option to put some rear seats in GT3R or RSR, for factory drivers to race with company  Or even more...let's put some rear seats in 918 Spyder too!! Smiley


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    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    http://www.motoring.com.au/new-porsche-911-r-will-be-limited-100974/


    --

    997 GT3 RS 3.6 - 964 RS - 991 GT3 RS


    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    RC:
    Targa Tim:
    RC:
    Targa Tim:

    ^ I agree with pmarkow.  For those who wants to drive a sport car and carry kids, pets, golf, etc, then a panamera turbo S is the answer, not a GT3 with rear seat and without wing.  Any kids that are over 10 yo will not prefer to be at the back of a 911 for long trip.

    Family trips are very different than track driving.  In fact, I don't even prefer to use my GT3RS for street driving.

    Are you are multi-millionaire? I'm not. Why would you want family fathers not to be able to enjoy a sports car? Many can barely afford a GT3 and you want them to drive a Panamera instead? You must be kidding.

    I do not see your point of argument at all.

    Do you know what define a good track car?

    90% (at least) of the drivers of "good" track cars would be better advised to invest that money into a proper driver training. Smiley I can "destroy" at least 75% of the "good" track car drivers on the track in my GTS cab. Smiley

    I think many amateur drivers make the mistake of going overkill with the hardware they use. Also, I think that many also confuse a good track car with a good racing car. Look at the Hockenheim time of the new 991.2 Carrera S compared to the GT3/GT3 RS and you may understand what I mean.

    Some people who bought a GT3 and RS will strip the interior in order to lose more weight to enhance its performance.  There is a good reason that Porsche does not make them with 4 seats.  It is not my problem that Porsche does not produce them. 

    These people are nuts. Unless they are really good drivers and most of them are not. 

    I never said people with family should not enjoy sport cars.  Panamera turbo S is a good sport car.  911 turbo is a good sport car.  GTS is a good sport car.  Buy anything that you like or you tell Porsche to custom make one for you.

    Panamera Turbo S is a good car for it's class but it is no sports car. It is the closest thing to a sports car you can get in this class indeed but still no sports car. The GTS is a different story of course but still not a track car. Sometimes, I just want to have the best engine and best chassis but also have some room for my kids or at least some luggage.

    BTW, whether you or anyone else is a millionaire or not is totally irrelevant to me.  It has nothing to do with car discussions.

     

    Of course it does. A multi-millionaire can afford owning a GT3 RS and a Panamera Turbo S and a Cayenne Turbo S. I can only afford owning one of these. You get my point. This means that if I want a GT3 RS, I have to compromise on my kids and luggage room and I don't want that. Porsche is all about choices. Not offering a rear seat option for some idiotic reasons is just dumb. This is pure marketing, nothing else.

    RC, i strongly disagree with your last sentence. it is not about marketing, it is about diluting the brand (further). i have complained a lot about the cup tyres (no choice) on GT cars and about the non-options of parking sensors and rear cameras. but now i understand and appreciate that porsche wants to keep the GT line as pure as possible (but still street legal).  

    or thinking about it differently, maybe it is marketing....because the best marketing for an already rather diluted sports car producer is to keep a 'clean' model line.

    peter


    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    SportCarGroup:

    I don't think that not offering rear seats in GT3 RS is dumb yes Many track cars are being towed to the track. GT3RS is track oriented car. I don't know who possibly would want to make a trip with luggage, kids and dogs in a GT3RS. If one wants a high performance car, but more suited for multiple targets, should take 911 Turbo S. Why put rear seats in GT3RS, just because it has a 911 body and it's possible to put it in?? I'm pretty sure, that most of the GT3RS owners owns more that one car and can find other solutions to make a trips with kids and luggage. I think there are enough 911's version for each taste and some of the 911 must stay "street race" cars as much as possible. Otherwise, we should think about an option to put some rear seats in GT3R or RSR, for factory drivers to race with company  Or even more...let's put some rear seats in 918 Spyder too!! Smiley


    --

     

     

    Who said anything about trips and luggage? I just want to be able to put my kids in the car and go to the store or take them to school!

    If the car has a cage it can't have rear seats but you can get a GT3 without a cage and if a 911R is supposed to be a GT3 without the wing and without the cage I'd like rear seats. It's not hard to understand!!!Smiley


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    Mithras: It's not hard to understand!!!Smiley

    Smiley  

    this comes to mind?Smiley


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: 911 R Thread Closed

    All cars are compromises, there is no one perfect car. Everyone's priorities are different, it is impossible for a car manufacturer to make one perfect car without compromises.

    Even the mighty 918 is a compromised car. 


    --

     

     


     
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