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    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    Rossi:

    Spoiled by power. Smiley
     

     

    Smiley  Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

     

    After starting the engine, I expected something more M3-like but the sound is even worse than on the Cayenne Turbo S. There is a light growl when you accelerate from standstill but nothing V8-like and it disappears and gets a much higher pitch once you pass 3000 rpm. To make it short: very disappointing exhaust/engine sound, the X6 M sounds like a X6 Diesel or even worse, like a 4-cylinder hatchback. There is definetely nothing "M" about the exhaust/engine sound on the X6 M.

     

     

    Ouch ! Not good news for the next M5, since it will use the exact same engine. To me "bmw M" is dead, the only thing that set them apart from the competition was that the engines were so crazy, almost race-car like crazy, and now, they jump on the "bi-turbo efficiency" band-wagon just like mercedes and audi. At least mercedes does it right, the new 5.5 AMG engine sounds pretty spectacular from what I've heard (altough weak compared with the 6.2)

     

     


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    it's a marvel of an engine though when it comes to power delivery !


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    soundwise y're absolutely right. But I don't thing that BMW M is dead. The overall package of the X5M is quite ok. And for my personal use I like the understatement. The new m5 is another story. Let's wait what will happen with the exhaust note
    --
    Kind regards, Conny 

    Porsche 997.2 Turbo S  *  BMW X5 M
     

    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    Conny997:
    soundwise y're absolutely right. But I don't thing that BMW M is dead. The overall package of the X5M is quite ok. And for my personal use I like the understatement. The new m5 is another story. Let's wait what will happen with the exhaust note

     

    Why should BMW M be dead ??? The X5 M is a wonderful product, everything is like it should be...with one exception though: the exhaust sound.

    Performance-wise, the X5 M is top of the line: it is over half a second faster from 0-200 kph than the Cayenne Turbo and believe it or not but a german 4WD car magazine actually proclaimed the X5 M to be sportier than the Cayenne Turbo. The article however doesn't say if the Cayenne Turbo was equipped with all the performance gizmos Porsche is offering.

    As to the understatement look: nothing beats a black X5 M. I own this truck for half a year now and nobody actually ever asked me about the price tag like they did on my previous Cayenne Turbo S. People aren't interested in "common" things, so the X5 M is just the perfect family car for me.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    RC:
    Why should BMW M be dead ??? The X5 M is a wonderful product, everything is like it should be...with one exception though: the exhaust sound.

    Performance-wise, the X5 M is top of the line: it is over half a second faster from 0-200 kph than the Cayenne Turbo and believe it or not but a german 4WD car magazine actually proclaimed the X5 M to be sportier than the Cayenne Turbo. The article however doesn't say if the Cayenne Turbo was equipped with all the performance gizmos Porsche is offering.

     

     Well, that exception alone is more than enough to make many people turn away from them. Nobody wants a sportscar that sounds "like a diesel, or even worse".

    And let me get this straight: you bought a SUV, or a "truck" as you put it, because of it's "sportiness" ??? Smiley Sorry but a truck is still a truck, no matter how fast it is, and one should never use the term "sporty" to describe it. "Less truckish" I think is a more adequate term Smiley


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    That seems to be more a philosophically question. When can you call a car as sporty? From what that depends on? Is a Mercedes C280 less sporty than a C 63 AMG? You may answer, yes the C63 is more sporty due to it's extended power and faster acceleration. What about an SUV comparison? What about of one of the world most powerful SUV with 555 hp and acceleration numbers which comply to a 997 Carrera? You can call it like you want but for me that's pretty sporty comparatively. And that's not only from the desk but from my own experience.
    --
    Kind regards, Conny 

    Porsche 997.2 Turbo S  *  BMW X5 M
     

    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    mariusv:

    And let me get this straight: you bought a SUV, or a "truck" as you put it, because of it's "sportiness" ??? Smiley Sorry but a truck is still a truck, no matter how fast it is, and one should never use the term "sporty" to describe it. "Less truckish" I think is a more adequate term Smiley


    you are very very mistaken....

    these things are a hell of a lot of fun....and yes, the have very sporty characteristics.


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

     

    I agree they can be FUN. But "very sporty" ? How do you define "sportiness" ? A bentley flying spur is sporty in your opinion ? Because if it isn't, then I don't see how can a four wheel drive truck, with the same weight but with much higher center of gravity, can be called as such.


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    sporty as in suv sporty....


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    mariusv:

     

    I agree they can be FUN. But "very sporty" ? How do you define "sportiness" ? A bentley flying spur is sporty in your opinion ? Because if it isn't, then I don't see how can a four wheel drive truck, with the same weight but with much higher center of gravity, can be called as such.

     

    Let me ask you a question in return: if you work the whole week and barely have time to enjoy a GT3 RS for example, if you have a wife and two kids and want to share your spare time with them but at the same time, you want to drive a (family) car which still provides a little bit of the fun you would have with a GT3 RS or any other "true" sportscar, what car would you go for ? I also live in a region with lots of snow, not even mentioning the fact that my wife loves skiing in the winter time, so we drive a lot around the Alps.

    People who buy a powerful SUV usually also own a "true" sportscar. Have you never asked yourself why they buy a Cayenne Turbo or a X5 M ?

    In the SUV category, the X5 M is a very sporty model. Believe it or not, it achieves track times only true sportscars achieved ten years ago.

    Driving a SUV like the X5 M or the Cayenne Turbo is a lot of fun and you would be surprised how fast you can be in these trucks if one has the necessary driving skills.

    Of course I would prefer a GT3 RS for my daily driving but this doesn't work. So I have to embrace the next closest thing I can actually use for my daily needs, the X5 M.

    There may be some countries where owning an expensive high performance SUV may be part of the society showing off game but trust me, this would be the last thought/reason why I drive a X5 M.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    RC:
    Let me ask you a question in return: if you work the whole week and barely have time to enjoy a GT3 RS for example, if you have a wife and two kids and want to share your spare time with them but at the same time, you want to drive a (family) car which still provides a little bit of the fun you would have with a GT3 RS or any other "true" sportscar, what car would you go for ? I also live in a region with lots of snow, not even mentioning the fact that my wife loves skiing in the winter time, so we drive a lot around the Alps.

     

    I would go for a Audi RS6. Or, if it wasn't so damn ugly, Porsche's own Panamera Turbo  Smiley I really don't get the idea of a SUV as a replacement for a sports car (or as a family sports car,). In fact, I don't get the idea of a SUV, period :)

    And if snow was a problem for those then I would opt for a proper 4wd machine, like the Range Rover. Maybe Cayenne Turbo, which has real off-road capabilities, thanks in part to the ADJUSTABLE GROUND CLEARENCE, but X5/X6, no way. They're no better off-road cars than a 7-series with 4 wheel drive (or xDrive as they call it) . In fact, judging by the xDrive badge, I think they use the same system Smiley

     

     


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    RC:

    There may be some countries where owning an expensive high performance SUV may be part of the society showing off game ...

     This can also put people in a uncomfortable position too, for example, I love the X6M but (aside from can't affording one right now) If I got one here, even the normal X6, people would immediately assume I'm a douche. In our culture 99% of people who buy a sportscar or a sport SUV is only doing it to brag about what they have, most of them are just buying the pricetag, not even the car itself. Main douche cars right now here are the Range Rover Sport, the Cayenne turbo, X6 and almost every porsche. 


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    i think exactly the opposite....since there are powerful suv's there is no need for sedans.

    i would always choose a cayenne turbo over a panamera turbo...


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    intouch1:

    i think exactly the opposite....since there are powerful suv's there is no need for sedans.

    i would always choose a cayenne turbo over a panamera turbo...


    That's exactly the point: A SUV has overall the better attributes for daily usage under all conditions than a sedan and of course a way better ground clearance. Adjustability is not a necessity with the exception of a very heavy cross country drive.
    --
    Kind regards, Conny 

    Porsche 997.2 Turbo S  *  BMW X5 M
     

    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    For me Daily Driver ml 63 and Weekend gt2. If i wouldnt have this combo than probably rs6 avant. The decision for the ml 63, was ( for my taste) his brilliant look. In a high Performance SUV i personally don't care if an other model is slightly faster or not. Because relativly compered to my gt2 they are all "slow". I think it is wrong to argue how fast SUVs are and how sporty. Let's just say they make a lot of fun and are quit solide for daily use

    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    intouch1:

    i think exactly the opposite....since there are powerful suv's there is no need for sedans.

    i would always choose a cayenne turbo over a panamera turbo...

     +1


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    mariusv:

    I would go for a Audi RS6. Or, if it wasn't so damn ugly, Porsche's own Panamera Turbo  Smiley I really don't get the idea of a SUV as a replacement for a sports car (or as a family sports car,). In fact, I don't get the idea of a SUV, period :)

    And if snow was a problem for those then I would opt for a proper 4wd machine, like the Range Rover. Maybe Cayenne Turbo, which has real off-road capabilities, thanks in part to the ADJUSTABLE GROUND CLEARENCE, but X5/X6, no way. They're no better off-road cars than a 7-series with 4 wheel drive (or xDrive as they call it) . In fact, judging by the xDrive badge, I think they use the same system Smiley

     

    1. Audi RS6 is a station wagon and despite the fact that my wife hates station wagons, the RS6 doesn't have enough ground clearance for heavily snow covered streets. Another point would be that my BMW dealer offered me almost 22% rebate on the X5 M while the Audi dealer wasn't even close to being that generous. Did I also mention the spacier interior of the X5 M ? Again: family car.

    2. since I don't know real off-road capabilities (I actually want to see the Cayenne Turbo owners who go off-road in their SUV), it doesn't make sense to pay 35000 EUR more, to have a flashy car everbody over here seems to hate because of the reputation of a gas guzzler/luxury SUV and I would also have less performance (0-200 kph in 0.5 seconds slower...not that it really matters).

    3. the fastest Range Rover available on this planet is still too slow for me

    4. a 7 series with xDrive ? Are you kidding me ? Ground clearance is a joke and you need the 760 to cope with X5 M performance.

    May I ask what car you drive and what your daily needs are regarding a car ? Because I'm not quite sure I get your arguments. The X5 M has not the 4WD system of the X5/X6, you seem to make a logical mistake here but not that it really matters. Fact is: the X5 M has enough ground clearance for snow, anyone driving it under snowy conditions, like Conny997, can confirm this to you.

    You don't get the idea of a SUV ? So maybe you are somebody who doesn't need one ? Smiley As I said before, having lived and worked in Romania for seven years, my perfect car over there would be a bullet proof Brabus G class with 700 hp. Still not getting the SUV idea ? Well...maybe you have been just lucky yet. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    For me, with a second family and my craving for power, my CTTS is just perfect.  I am also a bit older than most on Rennteam, so hard bore sports coupes are not as attractive as they once were. I will, however, probably go back to a 991 Turbo in two years, after my daughter heads to college and there is not so much stuff and other kids to cart about.

    On exhaust sound, I have long since lost a desire for loud mufflers--starting with my first turbo back in 1976.  To me, silent power is far more elegant and addictive than racy sounds on the street.  And believe me, with 550 HP, my CTTS delivers the goods.  There are very few cars in my area that can touch the acceleration and handling of this car, and the build quality and amenities are top notch.


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    RC:
    mariusv:

    I would go for a Audi RS6. Or, if it wasn't so damn ugly, Porsche's own Panamera Turbo  Smiley I really don't get the idea of a SUV as a replacement for a sports car (or as a family sports car,). In fact, I don't get the idea of a SUV, period :)

    And if snow was a problem for those then I would opt for a proper 4wd machine, like the Range Rover. Maybe Cayenne Turbo, which has real off-road capabilities, thanks in part to the ADJUSTABLE GROUND CLEARENCE, but X5/X6, no way. They're no better off-road cars than a 7-series with 4 wheel drive (or xDrive as they call it) . In fact, judging by the xDrive badge, I think they use the same system Smiley

     

    1. Audi RS6 is a station wagon and despite the fact that my wife hates station wagons, the RS6 doesn't have enough ground clearance for heavily snow covered streets. Another point would be that my BMW dealer offered me almost 22% rebate on the X5 M while the Audi dealer wasn't even close to being that generous. Did I also mention the spacier interior of the X5 M ? Again: family car.

    2. since I don't know real off-road capabilities (I actually want to see the Cayenne Turbo owners who go off-road in their SUV), it doesn't make sense to pay 35000 EUR more, to have a flashy car everbody over here seems to hate because of the reputation of a gas guzzler/luxury SUV and I would also have less performance (0-200 kph in 0.5 seconds slower...not that it really matters).

    3. the fastest Range Rover available on this planet is still too slow for me

    4. a 7 series with xDrive ? Are you kidding me ? Ground clearance is a joke and you need the 760 to cope with X5 M performance.

    May I ask what car you drive and what your daily needs are regarding a car ? Because I'm not quite sure I get your arguments. The X5 M has not the 4WD system of the X5/X6, you seem to make a logical mistake here but not that it really matters. Fact is: the X5 M has enough ground clearance for snow, anyone driving it under snowy conditions, like Conny997, can confirm this to you.

    You don't get the idea of a SUV ? So maybe you are somebody who doesn't need one ? Smiley As I said before, having lived and worked in Romania for seven years, my perfect car over there would be a bullet proof Brabus G class with 700 hp. Still not getting the SUV idea ? Well...maybe you have been just lucky yet. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

     But you don't live in Romania man, you live in a country with the best infrastructure there is ! That's why I don't get the SUV ideea. And how often does your wife go skiing in the Alps ? Is this really a reason for buying a X5 M ? Not to mention I can't imagine that the primary roads that go to the ski resorts aren't regularily maintained, or "desnowed". So an all wheel drive car like the RS6 Avant should be more than enough for what you have in mind. Sure, it's not as spacy as the X5, but just how much space do you need in a car ? It's not like you're gonna have picnics in it, or turn it into a playground for your kids, is it ? Oh well, I'm not going to argue anymore, since it seems you really like the car you've bought, and I've never driven it so maybe it's a good sports car/truck and I'm stupid :)

     

     

     


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    As i live often in the Alps Gstaad and Zermatt a can fully agree the rs6 has all you Need for that kind of roads im Wintertime. It almost never happen that there is more than 20 cm more of fresh snow on the road. And it doesnt take Long for the grommers to make the road clean. So i think snow wise there is no adventag for a suv over a car like rs6

    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    I can't understand this kind of discussion. Maybe some people dislike the Audi RS 6 and prefer the spacier X5M. And I really disfavor verbalisms like " this or that is enough ...." or any determinations elsewhere given by a third party. For me as a property developer the ground clearance is a necessity to visit the construction sites, just for example and other SUV owner may have other individual reasons NOT to buy an Audi RS 6. Thanks god we live in a free society and we can choose the cars that suits best to our personal needs and taste.
    --
    Kind regards, Conny 

    Porsche 997.2 Turbo S  *  BMW X5 M
     

    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    Dario:
    As i live often in the Alps Gstaad and Zermatt a can fully agree the rs6 has all you Need for that kind of roads im Wintertime. It almost never happen that there is more than 20 cm more of fresh snow on the road. And it doesnt take Long for the grommers to make the road clean. So i think snow wise there is no adventag for a suv over a car like rs6

     

    I recommend visiting Katschberg in Austria around January, February...this is where we are for skiing because there is always snow. This is where most non-SUV owners pay over 60 EUR to get towed by a tractor...if they are lucky. If they aren't lucky, the can't even drive up to the hotel or even get out of the parking lot. Smiley Smiley I've seen so many "victims" and I always refused to tow them because if somebody is that dumb, he doesn't deserve different.

    ski13.jpg

    This is the photo of our hotel in Katschberg, a RS6 can't even climb up the hill to the hotel entrance, which would mean I had to carry four large suitcases up the hill on a slippery road. Austrian police is usually waiting next to the hotel's parking lot to fine those tourists who don't use chains (even on SUVs !).

    1266772688613aus3.jpg

    This is how the road looks when it is cleaned... Smiley

    1266772554513aus2.jpg

    This was the best part of the road (almost at the bottom of the hill), I couldn't take a photo earlier because the car was slipping despite the chains and the snow was so high that I had to pay attention to where there is actually the road. Smiley

    As a little side note: in Germany, only main streets are cleaned up after heavy snow. This usually means that I hardly can leave my own garage when there is heavy snowing over here in Bavaria.

    Like I said before: if you never understood the need for a SUV, you never needed one. Smiley

    Btw: my wife goes skiing almost every weekend, we live in Bavaria...remember ?! Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

     But why a SUV and not a proper ALL TERRAIN VEHICLE, like the Range Rover  ? Here are my arguments:

    1. It is infinitely more competent for this kind of road conditions than a SUV

    2. you can't drive "sporty" on snow, so that makes any 500 bhp+ SUV useless

    3. if you are not going to ski (or any other "family activity") you have a proper sports car (911 turbo) at your disposal, so why bother with a "sports truck" ???

    Smiley

     

     


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    thats what winter is,and where i life 1/2 half off an year. And all i can say i never had the smallest probleme with my first rs4b5 between 2002-2004.  (by the way Zermatt is around 1600meter, so yes we very often have covered roads like this, or the road is even closed becaus off avelange.

    Believe me or not 20 cm of fresh snow on uphill roads where not the smallest problem for this car. So therefore i doubt that the new rs6 (equiped with good winter tyres) would have mutch of a problem. But as i havent seen this situation i cant judge neither the car, nor the tyres, nor the driver.

    I do think that my ml63 doesnt have any better climb performance on snowy roads as the rs4 had. Unlesse there is mutch more than 20cm fresh snow on it, and ground clearance would have a big effect.

    Downhill on a big heavy Suv on snowy roads is an other story....

     


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    2. you can't drive "sporty" on snow, so that makes any 500 bhp+ SUV useless 


    you can, as long you go uphill. (grip is quit ok)

    It makes a lot of fun 


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

     Same here, live in CH for 9 years. Drive a RWD BMW 325i, never got stuck, never had to use snow chains. I'm in the mountains (Laax, Davos, St. Moritz and Gstaad) every other weekend. Have to add that my next car will have 4WD, because reversing uphill with RWD is a pain... But you don't need the clearance for the snow at least not in CH.

    Talking about snow. Few years ago (March 2006) I was lazy and took the Boxster to a restaurant. It started snowing and by the time I got home I couldn't drive into the garage anymore because of the snow. Parked it out on the street and in the morning it looked like this. Picture is taken in city of Zürich by the way... SmileyPhoto  12.JPG

     


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

     Same here . Have been driving ( or being driven ) for 44 years to the mountains. Ground clearance has never bee a problem. But I had to use chains quite a few times, when you have heavy snow fall for 24 hours non stop and the road is icy underneath the snow, I had to put chains on. Sometimes it even gets mandatory to go over certain mountain passes.

    Anyway, I have snow plied with my 997 4S .... and did not get stuck 


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    RC:
    Let me ask you a question in return: if you work the whole week and barely have time to enjoy a GT3 RS for example, if you have a wife and two kids and want to share your spare time with them but at the same time, you want to drive a (family) car which still provides a little bit of the fun you would have with a GT3 RS or any other "true" sportscar, what car would you go for ? 

    Couldn't agree more! This is exactly why I'm selling my GT3 RS. I cannot drive it as much as I can and I tend to drive a boring diesel car everyday and in my family trips. This is why I'm seriously considering a E90 M3 as a daily car. Discretion and power!!!

    This is the RC way...Smiley


    --

    997 GT3 RS


    Re: X6 M - short driving report (Rennteam)

    Gnil:

     Same here . Have been driving ( or being driven ) for 44 years to the mountains. Ground clearance has never bee a problem. But I had to use chains quite a few times, when you have heavy snow fall for 24 hours non stop and the road is icy underneath the snow, I had to put chains on. Sometimes it even gets mandatory to go over certain mountain passes.

    Anyway, I have snow plied with my 997 4S .... and did not get stuck 

     

    Guys, you have been lucky so far. I saw a couple of times stuck cars in snow because of ground clearance and even helped twice using a shovel to get them free. Not sure where you go skiing but apparently only to the fancy locations which have lots of tourists. Smiley

    I also don't know about Switzerland (my last ski trip to Davos was almost 20 years ago) but in Austria, the snow doesn't get cleaned up immediately in some mountain regions. This is why the austrian police sometimes waits for tourists at the exit of parking lots to ask them to go back until the street(s) have been cleaned up and/or to mount snow chains. In Katschberg, the police usually waits aprox. 50 m outside the parking lot, so they can fine you when they catch you without snow chains. Ground clearance is a serious problem too because they usually don't clean the parking lot during the week, only at the weekends when new tourists arrive and/or the tourists travel back home. When it is snowing too hard, they don't clean up the parking lot at all. This is when the air suspension of my Cayenne Turbo S came in pretty handy because the snow was so high that I couldn't even see where the parking lot is ending, making it a pretty dangerous experience.

    One of my friends who usually joins us in Katschberg drives an older 5 series station wagon and got stuck in snow, he wasn't even able to drive up to the hotel entrance to leave the luggage there. He was lucky though, he actually wanted to drive over in his new BMW 740d but his wife convinced him in the last minute to take the 5 series. One Slovenian in a 7 series wasn't so lucky, he seriously damaged his rear part when one of the snow chains got loose (he apparently didn't read the instructions) because he was stuck in snow and he accelerated too hard.

    I also remember a very nice incident in Romania where I had to catch a plane to Germany and I was stuck in snow with my 190E 2.6 in front of the german embassy and no rats ass in front of the embassy (there were dozens of people incl. several militia officers) helped me, so I had to use a shovel to clear out the snow under the car. I made it to the airport only because I used a police car, otherwise I would have lost my last plane before Christmas to Germany. Maybe situations like this one influence your mind, I certainly wouldn't drive to the Alps in a 911 when I know that there is a lot of snow or when it is actually snowing.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


     
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