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    Re: 997S vs. M5

    What's all the fuzz about?

    The comparison might've been fun in the first place but AutoBild ruined it in my eyes.
    Neither the list of criteria nor the results provide a valuable food for thought on that topic.

    The fact that a racecar driver chooses the 997 over the M5, which is considered to be more comfy and roomy and especially "not too loud for long-distance travels" unlike the Porsche... Niko Rosberg might be promoted by his father's name but he delivered some very nice results in the past! There are other kids from rich or important parents that perform differently - by the way, it can be a hassle to have your father's or mother's name!
    AutoBild is a ridiculous magazine and considering AMS's creative output these days makes me wonder what paper I'd choose to read!

    I have to agree about the braking issue, any info if they used the std. or PCCB system? Couldn't discover on the pictures!
    The various system settings can be programmed via i-Drive and stored in the mysterious M-button on the steering wheel. You could drive in P400, DSC on etc. mode during the day and instantly turn it into something wilder, similiar to Porsche's sport-button, isn't it?

    Christian, please be so kind and hold back your temper.
    As much as I value your opinion it is YOURS and doesn't have to fit on anybody else!

    Cheers!

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Ferdie, maybe you're not aware of it but this is a Porsche forum, not a BMW forum.
    I could give you nberry as an example but he really changed his strategy and although it is still provoking, we can accept it.
    Gabriel is here to promote BMW and he might not even own one. So why is he posting this here on the Porsche forum? For information purposes only? I doubt it.
    There is a saying in German: "wer Benzin ins Feuer giesst..." (something like "who adds petrol to the fire..."). Gabriel provoked and I showed hot temper. What is wrong with that?

    Autobild did a comparison which actually will stirr up a lot of emotions. And I'm pretty sure they knew it.
    BMW owners will look at this comparison as a win situation over the "famous" 911 and Porsche owners will see it exactly the other way.

    I don't like such comparisons because they aren't worth anything. They serve hot tempered discussions on internet forums and in pubs but don't really say much about the cars. I'm surprised to see that Autobild didn't make a track comparison between both. Maybe they do that in Auto Bild Test & Tuning later on. The reason is clear: the M5 wouldn't stand a chance against the 997 Carrera S on the track, especially on tracks where power doesn't count, like the Lausitzring which Autobild uses most of the time for comparison tests.
    Regarding programming the button: are you sure people will program this button for changing to max. power? And you forgot to add how the high power mode can be activated if this button is programmed with a different fucntion.

    And maybe you should start telling us what car you own and drive because up til now I heard a lot of nice things from you (and I agree with 80% of what you said in your posts) but I try to back up my claims with pictures and descriptions (not to speak about my witnesses who read this forum... ). Maybe you're just a 12 year old kid playing with his father's computer?

    The 997 Carrera S tested in Autobild had the PCCB brake.
    It was a car equipped with the standard PASM suspension.

    And regarding Gabriel's remark about money: I hear that pretty often at the fuel station and even from my neighbor who wanted to drive my 996 Turbo and couldn't even move it because the engine stalled three times until I stopped him(one mass flyhweel, short shifter, racing clutch system).
    His comment before that: "you have money to buy this car but I can drive it".
    Being "poor" doesn't mean you're a better driver or more intelligent. Being poor means not to have money and being rich means to have money. Nothing more and nothing less.
    Money can't buy you talent but it was always difficult for kids of famous parents to get the recognition they (often but not always) deserve.

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    I guess, this is the part of life that sucks, everyone has got an opinion. Hahaha....

    BMW engineered the M5 as it's own car from the S.T.O.P. for the standard E60 5. The M5 has all the credentials it needs to run w/ any "sports car" including the 997 std, S, and I bet even the Turbo. Now you might think, "the M5? a sports car?" Well I guess that just depends on who you ask? RC, while I dont agree w/ everyting I hear and read, I know when I read and hear the same thing over and over again, there is some sort of truth, even if it comes off slightly twisted. This is what I've heard and read about the new M5, over and over again, "it's in a class of it's own" E55? *yawns*

    And you're more than welcome to believe im one sided.

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    I don't believe you're one sided because you won't post here if you would be. As I said in another post: it really depends on what you want. I'm 100% positive that the new BMW M5 is the hell of a sports limousine and I'm also sure this is a car which, driven in the right hands, can provide a lot of fun. And judging by it's price tag and comparing it to the E55 or even the new CLS55 AMG, the new BMW M5 is a bargain.
    But this isn't my type of car. I just have to set priorities because I can't afford buying all the cars I like out there. If I would have the money, the new BMW M5 would be in my garage, no doubt about it. Because I think it is the most fascinating limousine on the market right now.
    This is why I said that the Autobild comparison isn't worth anything. This is like comparing the Cayenne Turbo to the M5, same BS.

    Please don't get me wrong: I never said the new M5 is a bad car, I even like the design, though the interior doesn't fascinate me at all. But this is not the type of car I want to drive now at my age. I realized it when I owned the E55. All E55 owners I met were over 50 or even 60. Suddenly, I felt in the wrong place.

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    RC, stop talking about age, you're making me depressed

    Curiously, I would think the M5 and Cayenne Turbo would be aimed at the same customer base. Both are very fast comfortable 'cruisers' that have plenty of pasenger and luggage room, and both are an ideal family car. Ok, the Cayenne obviously has off-road abilities but I doubt many owners would exploit them. What is your opinion on this RC? I know you say that the M5 is not for you, but couldn't it be an ideal substitute for your Cayenne?

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Quote:
    danny828 said:
    RC, stop talking about age, you're making me depressed

    Curiously, I would think the M5 and Cayenne Turbo would be aimed at the same customer base. Both are very fast comfortable 'cruisers' that have plenty of pasenger and luggage room, and both are an ideal family car. Ok, the Cayenne obviously has off-road abilities but I doubt many owners would exploit them. What is your opinion on this RC? I know you say that the M5 is not for you, but couldn't it be an ideal substitute for your Cayenne?



    Actually it is even worse with the Cayenne Turbo: I met three Cayenne Turbo owners til now and all of them were over 60. The Cayenne Turbo is too expensive to be owned by younger people and over here in Germany, wealthy young couples with kids usually have a XYZ Cab in the garage for some summer fun and a BMW/Audi/VW station wagon with a Diesel engine for the family. Or a Minivan.

    A limousine isn't a good car for a family with two little kids. Did you ever change a diaper in a limousine? I did, my wife did and we hated it. And you NEVER get as much luggage in a limousine as you get inside a Cayenne. Because the kids have child seats, we usually put two large bags between the front seats back and rear seats in the foot room. The interior room of the Cayenne is impressive, only US SUVs like Lincoln Navigator, etc. are larger. And the luggage room isn't bad at all too, enough room for two large Samsonites and a few other bags, incl. a baby stroller. And don't forget that I live in Bavaria, in winter time, the Cayenne is much better than a limousine, not to speak about rainy weather where the AWD and the weight of the Cayenne provide an incredible stability and safety feel. And to give you a hint HOW good the Cayenne Turbo is on wet streets (with 20'' summer tires of course): on the Leipzig test track, the Cayenne Turbo outruns ALL current Porsche models when the track is wet, including the Carrera GT.

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Quote:
    RC said:
    ...And maybe you should start telling us what car you own and drive because up til now I heard a lot of nice things from you (and I agree with 80% of what you said in your posts) but I try to back up my claims with pictures and descriptions (not to speak about my witnesses who read this forum... ). Maybe you're just a 12 year old kid playing with his father's computer? ...



    This is seriously adressed at ME?

    RC, you have a very strong personal opinion and so do I. If you cannot live with it you better make me leave this forum. I don't adress this issue to the public, leave me a note if there is anything to complain.

    It was not Gabriel who launched this topic (or do you know more about Mr. or Mrs. "Dgoldsc" than us) so where lies the point in that?
    I don't think this forum is about adulation for buying the right car or doing the right things in life...

    I guess we had enough discussions on this forum private and public that you have a certain information about me - I only talk about the things I know about. I have never commented on cars I haven't experienced by myself - please tell me if you need any proof for that!
    I even offered you to meet once I am in your region but you more or less declined...

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Besides that I commented on AutoBild's reputation which is not pretty high in my eyes. Rosberg even adressed the seat-memory dilemma!

    The Bild-Zeitung has their daily topic and topless women on 1st page...

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Ferdie, you expect me to have a thick skin and you start to cry for your mama? C'mon, buddy.

    Yes, the question was addressed towards you. There are opinions and opinions and I'm sure people on this forum are curious about car backgrounds to understand claims and views and opinions. Why should I be the only one who lets down his pants?

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Ferdie, you expect me to have a thick skin and you start to cry for your mama? C'mon, buddy.
    ...



    Huh? Where did I do that?

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    The topic of this thread is a joke right?
    Why would anyone compare 997 with M5?
    No matter what any of these automotive tabloids say, those who like Porsche would not go for a limousine/saloon/sedan, no matter who the car manufacturer is. Yes there are those who do not have confidence in their driving ablilities would go for four door automatic with a big engine, and there is no doubt about. So please don't tell me you like M5 or E55 for them being sports car, they are not!
    When I was young I really admired the M1, but what BMW is bulding today is really sad.

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    For a lot of people, and I can definately speak for Western-Europe, a 911 is one of the icons for a fast sportscar. Fast in their terms means in straight-lines...

    I actually believe that there are quite a few people considering both cars and evaluating the pros and cons. Fact is they both cost about the same and offer a thrill and performance level that is way beyond average. In the past the Carrera was about on par with the M5 in terms of acceleration AND had the advantage in handling.
    Let's face it - speed and acceleration IS an important fact for a few out there!

    This wouldn't make me buy an M5 but I might not be in their target group of speed-addicted soccer mums and dads...

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Quote:
    997C2S said:
    The topic of this thread is a joke right?
    Why would anyone compare 997 with M5?
    No matter what any of these automotive tabloids say, those who like Porsche would not go for a limousine/saloon/sedan, no matter who the car manufacturer is. Yes there are those who do not have confidence in their driving ablilities would go for four door automatic with a big engine, and there is no doubt about. So please don't tell me you like M5 or E55 for them being sports car, they are not!
    When I was young I really admired the M1, but what BMW is bulding today is really sad.



    If the new M5 is indeed faster than 997 C2S(true sports car) in straight lines and on tracks, what will you say?? Plus, M5 offers SMGIII which probably is best solution today for those who can't drive manual very well and want to enjoy motor sports, isn't that a good thing?? I've seen many rookie 996 drivers who can't even launch well and still keep saying "oh, my car is a true sports car and I drive manual only." Isn't that quite ridiculous and out-dated!! E55, M5, RS6 and 911, four types of enjoyment and in reality, M5 should be easier to drive and to reach its true performance level...So, if 5L V-10 with 507bhp controlled by F1 inspired 7-speed SMG gearbox is a sad thing, what would make you happy??

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Quote:
    deedee said:Plus, M5 offers SMGIII which probably is best solution today for those who can't drive manual very well and want to enjoy motor sports, isn't that a good thing??



    If you want to enjoy motor sports and you can't drive a manual well the best solution is to learn to drive a manual not the bypass it with an auto shortcut there is no reason not to learn if you want to be enjoying motor sports anyway.

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Quote:
    deedee said:
    E55, M5, RS6 and 911, four types of enjoyment and in reality, M5 should be easier to drive and to reach its true performance level...



    Four different cars yet, but three of those are in the same category. Also, some people enjoy a more involving car, not just a point and shoot type thing, if you get my point. Steering and brake feedback are important things.

    I think this thread is somewhat useless. Different people take different routes to their automotive pleasure. Though apparently there is some debate over the capabilities of an SUV, a sports sedan, and a sports car. I've seen people at the Porsche dealership walk away with a Cayenne instead of a 911 because it is 1) a porsche 2) sporty enough for them. It's just about priorities. Perhaps the M5 is sporty enough for you, but not for another. I can't say myself, having not driven one yet.

    Because I'm fairly unexperienced with sports cars, the three most important things for me are a good suspension, good steering feedback and good brakes, not just power. From my first hand experience, I know which cars satisfy these requirements. Your requirements and metrics may differ! I realized this after trying to buy a sports sedan trying to compromise between practicality and sportiness. You really need two cars unless you are lucky enough to be able to drive a sports car every day.

    The other thing to consider is that some potential sports car driver, who picks a 911 C2 Cab tip, is not really viewed as a sports car driver compared to perhaps a 911 GT3 RS driver or perhaps a Caterham R5 Evo driver. Don't worry about all this internet forum babble about the M5 vs. 911. It's just an argument to justify your purchases.

    - J

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Quote:
    Justin said:

    Four different cars yet, but three of those are in the same category. Also, some people enjoy a more involving car, not just a point and shoot type thing, if you get my point. Steering and brake feedback are important things.





    I don't think M5 is a real sports car..I never said so...and BMW never makes point and shoot cars since the very beginning...My point is, M5 offers great practicality and comfort as well as great performance figures, what's wrong with that?? M models are somewhere in between AMG and Porsche.....

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Quote:
    carlos fromspain said:
    ...learn to drive a manual not the bypass it with an auto shortcut there is no reason not to learn if you want to be enjoying motor sports anyway.



    Different people, different opinion...

    I have to admit that for a lot of people driving perfection is their highest goal and a automated std. gearbox is high on their list. Why does the F1 and SMG models have such a high sales percentage, especially since Ferrari (metal shift gate) and BMW (slick gearchanges) were something outstanding to shift?

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    I have to admit that for a lot of people driving perfection is their highest goal and a automated std. gearbox is high on their list. Why does the F1 and SMG models have such a high sales percentage, especially since Ferrari (metal shift gate) and BMW (slick gearchanges) were something outstanding to shift?



    For some drivers that already have plenty of experience in manuals its a refreshing new alternative to the manual to experience and enjoy, or the more confortable or practical gearbox for their daily driver sportcar, or the fastest option for their weekend track sportcar... but for other drivers its the easy way out in trying to operate a gearbox adequately in a sportcar

    Re: 997S vs. M5

    Quote:
    deedee said:My point is, M5 offers great practicality and comfort as well as great performance figures, what's wrong with that?? M models are somewhere in between AMG and Porsche.....



    There's nothing wrong with that and that was the point of my post. People should buy what works for them. Far be it for RC to try to convert you into a Porsche zealot if you would ultimately be happier with a BMW. At the same time, proclaiming your desire for BMW on the 997 forum has yielded the expected results.

     
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