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    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Yay, we have a video guys :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnZFd9Ljtmw


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    It sits really high...


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    heartSounds normally aspirated to me.... Like a GT3RS, but the body looks like a GT2


    --

     

    2011 Porsche Carrera 4S Platinum Silver (sold)
    2013 Porsche Panamera GTS Basalt Black

    2013 Porsche Carrera S GT Silver

    “The greatness of a man is not in how much wealth he acquires, but in his integrity and his ability to affect those around him positively” 
    ― Bob Marley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    The rear spoiler has the same air-ram inlets as the gt3 so i suspect gt3rs with turbo back fenders as interim testing solution.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Pentium:

    Maybe is the GT3 RS...

    Could be. Maybe they are using the wider 991 Turbo body and they didn't have time to build body parts without the side air inlets. The exhaust in the middle looks kind of weird for a 991 GT2 RS but maybe they just adapted to the GT3?

    Two days ago, I heard a rumor that there won't be a GT2 or GT2 RS and this rumor seems to have spread to other car forums too, so maybe there is some truth in it, who knows? I would find it weird but Porsche could only pull this one off if they offer something in return, like some sort of 960 or a 991 Turbo R(S) or whatever.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Maybe GT2 was "impinging" into future 960 performance territory.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Spyderidol:

    Maybe GT2 was "impinging" into future 960 performance territory.

    My thought exactly but still, not the same pair of shoes, so I don't know what happened. Maybe Porsche didn't sell enough GT2 and GT2 RS, so they tanked the projects. Let's wait and see but usually, when such rumors come up, there is some truth in them. Weird, since I heard about two weeks ago that the next 991 GT2 will have 560 hp and the next GT2 RS 630 hp and PDK. Well... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    RC:
    Spyderidol:

    Maybe GT2 was "impinging" into future 960 performance territory.

    My thought exactly but still, not the same pair of shoes, so I don't know what happened. Maybe Porsche didn't sell enough GT2 and GT2 RS, so they tanked the projects. Let's wait and see but usually, when such rumors come up, there is some truth in them. Weird, since I heard about two weeks ago that the next 991 GT2 will have 560 hp and the next GT2 RS 630 hp and PDK. Well... Smiley

    If this rumour was true (honestly, I doubt it very much...) it would be good to not sell one's old GT2 too early Smiley

    But honestly, what should all the GT2/GT2RS buyers get to replace their "old" car? They could not wait for a future "960" available in 2,3 or 4 years. Economic reasons are imperative: a 991 GT2/GT2RS is need Smiley Otherwise, Porsche might lose several hundred of the highest-margin customers to McLaren & Co. They would not risk that.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    This is why I am pretty sure that Porsche would only "tank" the GT2/GT2RS if there is some sort of alternative in the pipeline. Not sure however if a 960-type of car would be that alternative since I can imagine that some GT2/GT2RS buyers actually want something more stealth and not too flashy.

    How about a 991 Turbo RS? Would be a completely new approach? 600 hp, AWD, sportier chassis setup, lower... OK, it would lack RWD (and probably weight more) but this could be an alternative...to some.

    Interesting times ahead... 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Maybe the want GT2 potential buyers to soak up the excess 918 they will have on their hands angry


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    I don't want a Turbo RS.  I want a GT2RS or 960.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    SciFrog:

    Maybe the want GT2 potential buyers to soak up the excess 918 they will have on their hands angry

    If the discount is big enough, some might consider the 918 Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Markus,

    AFAIK 991 GT2 is coming, RWD and PDK only.

    Problem is power IMHO, I heard 580ps and it could be true.

    Other problem is price range since for 220K € base price in Germany it will compete with pretty big oposition. Do not forget that new Gallardo replacement(BTW, I had lots of info about it and it will be from technical point of view totally amazing car) is coming early in 2014...


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Every Porsche above 200k EUR already poses a problem for Porsche because the competition is very strong in that price segment, also considering that some so called super sports cars are cheaper in Germany than in other countries (458, MP4-12C, F12, Gallardo, etc.).

    If the GT2 starts at 220k, where would a GT2 RS start? At 300k? This is getting ridiculous.

    Porsche started a price hike with the 991 Turbo S and for that to be accepted, they need to deliver (if not spectacular looks, at least amazing performance). I don't know how many pre-orders Porsche has for the 991 Turbo and Turbo S but I get the feeling that the GT3 demand is higher. I may be wrong though but right now, I really see a lot of things Porsche may have done wrong with the 991 Turbo S, not so many things (actually almost none) with the new GT3.

    Regarding the rumored 580 hp power for the GT2: SInce I assume that the engine will be completely identical to the 991 Turbo/Turbo S, this will be another issue where Porsche fans will have lots of questions. What about track capability on slicks for example? Does the new GT2 have a separate (dry sump) oil tank (not an "integrated" one)? If not, there is already a problem. There are so many question marks here...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    KresoF1:

    Markus,

    AFAIK 991 GT2 is coming, RWD and PDK only.

    Problem is power IMHO, I heard 580ps and it could be true.

    Other problem is price range since for 220K € base price in Germany it will compete with pretty big oposition. Do not forget that new Gallardo replacement(BTW, I had lots of info about it and it will be from technical point of view totally amazing car) is coming early in 2014...

    With 580hp it would make a lot of sense to wait for the GT2RS Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    A 991 GT2 with PDK, at least 80kg less weight, 580 hp and of course AWS could actually be faster on the track than the 997 GT2 RS. So this could be a reason not to offer a GT2 RS but a 960 type of car in the upper 250k EUR price range.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    KresoF1:

     Do not forget that new Gallardo replacement(BTW, I had lots of info about it and it will be from technical point of view totally amazing car) is coming early in 2014...

    Do you feel the same about the next R8 (related car)?  Can you confirm whether the manual gated transmission is dead or continued in the next generation Gallardo/R8 (I have conflicting data)?

    Thanks!


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    RC:

    A 991 GT2 with PDK, at least 80kg less weight, 580 hp and of course AWS could actually be faster on the track than the 997 GT2 RS. So this could be a reason not to offer a GT2 RS but a 960 type of car in the upper 250k EUR price range.

    I am not sure if it would be any faster (if as fast as the 997GT2RS): if you compare the performance of the 997 GT3RS 4.0(500hp, manual, conventional steering) and the (assumed) performance of the 991GT3 (475hp, PDK, AWS) the 991 is supposed to do the NBR in 7.25 (officially) and SportAuto will most likely get to like 7.30 or slightly below. The 997GT3 4.0 did the NBR in 7.30... Also, 0-200kph performance seems to be pretty similar for both cars (approx. 12s)....

    Now, the power difference between a 580hp 991GT2 and the 997GT2RS is even bigger than in the above GT3 based example... That's why I would be surprised if a new GT2 with just 580hp could be any faster than the old GT2RSSmiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    If Timo Kluck did 7:25 in the GT3, I'd say that he would do under 7:20 in the new GT2 (not RS). This could be a close one to the 997 GT2 RS, I wouldn't underestimate the "power" of PDK, AWS and a new setup. The 997 GT2 RS is an amazing car but according to the last info I had, it stands no chance against a 991 Turbo S from 0-160 kph (launch control from standstill, one car length ahead). Up to 200 kph, the GT2 RS gains ground again and the cars are side to side (this comes from somebody who should know). Now take the GT2 with let's assume 80kg less and maybe 20 horses more. Do the math. On the Nordschleife, the 991 Turbo S did 7:27 with a Porsche test driver. So the "under 7:20" for Tim Kluck in a GT2 should be possible. That said, I think that the new GT2 would be a very fast car and if not faster than the 997 GT2 RS, at least at par.

    So maybe Porsche will put a GT2 on the market and then that infamous 960 model.

    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    RC:

    If Timo Kluck did 7:25 in the GT3, I'd say that he would do under 7:20 in the new GT2 (not RS). This could be a close one to the 997 GT2 RS, I wouldn't underestimate the "power" of PDK, AWS and a new setup. The 997 GT2 RS is an amazing car but according to the last info I had, it stands no chance against a 991 Turbo S from 0-160 kph (launch control from standstill, one car length ahead). Up to 200 kph, the GT2 RS gains ground again and the cars are side to side (this comes from somebody who should know). Now take the GT2 with let's assume 80kg less and maybe 20 horses more. Do the math. On the Nordschleife, the 991 Turbo S did 7:27 with a Porsche test driver. So the "under 7:20" for Tim Kluck in a GT2 should be possible. That said, I think that the new GT2 would be a very fast car and if not faster than the 997 GT2 RS, at least at par.

    So maybe Porsche will put a GT2 on the market and then that infamous 960 model.

    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    The problem is: the car needs to be really quicker to be an attractive offer... For example, you could argue that the 991GT3 does not make any sense to an owner of the old RS4.0. Why should he sell his more special car for a new product which is not faster? Same would apply to a GT2 with "just" 580hp compared to the old GT2RS. Porsche needs to make an offer to customers which makes them willing to spend like 250k Euros Smiley

    The 991TT has a big advantage: the 997TT was an underperformer (suspension/setup). Thus, the new turbo is soooo much quicker than the old car that traditional turbo buyers will naturally buy it and feel good about it Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    To be honest, I never really understood the GT2 (after the initial 993 GT): GT3 is the track toy, turbo is the GT meister... then what nich does the GT2 fill?!? Seems like a marketing ploy, just to design something they charge even more $$$ for. True, it is in the junior supercar niche, but to the people that buy such cars, I think image counts as well, and the image of the GT2 to the general public might be too much affiliated to the standard 911.
    Therefore, I wouldn't be surprised when the GT3 and turbo are going to be the top models, maybe GT2 a very limited edition that combines the best of both worlds, and then the 960 to fill the "junior supercar" niche.


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    MKSGR:

    The problem is: the car needs to be really quicker to be an attractive offer... 

    I agree. Why do you think I criticized Porsche's approach with the 991 Turbo S? 

    I get it: Turbo and Turbo S at the same time (actually the Turbo S will be available earlier Smiley), it makes sense.

    However: Porsche raised the price tag by a whopping 22k EUR but performance hasn't grown at the same level. Why would a 997 Turbo S driver switch to the new Turbo S? OK, the chassis setup is probably better, maybe even the sound but overall, there is no "need" to upgrade, which is my opinion also isn't clever from a marketing point of view.

    The competition has never been that strong, so Porsche clearly had to send a message with an all new 991 Turbo S, especially after they raised the price tag. They failed to do that in my opinion. Yes, I ordered one but only because I have no choice. If I wouldn't care about the neighbors and if AWD wouldn't be something I really need from time to time, I would have gone for the F12 or maybe even the MP4-12C. Honestly.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Joost:

    To be honest, I never really understood the GT2 (after the initial 993 GT): GT3 is the track toy, turbo is the GT meister... then what nich does the GT2 fill?!? Seems like a marketing ploy, just to design something they charge even more $$$ for. True, it is in the junior supercar niche, but to the people that buy such cars, I think image counts as well, and the image of the GT2 to the general public might be too much affiliated to the standard 911.
    Therefore, I wouldn't be surprised when the GT3 and turbo are going to be the top models, maybe GT2 a very limited edition that combines the best of both worlds, and then the 960 to fill the "junior supercar" niche.

    Agreed. All they needed to do was make the 991 turbo S more like RC calls for, a turbo RS... And forget all the gt2.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    SciFrog:
    Joost:

    To be honest, I never really understood the GT2 (after the initial 993 GT): GT3 is the track toy, turbo is the GT meister... then what nich does the GT2 fill?!? Seems like a marketing ploy, just to design something they charge even more $$$ for. True, it is in the junior supercar niche, but to the people that buy such cars, I think image counts as well, and the image of the GT2 to the general public might be too much affiliated to the standard 911.
    Therefore, I wouldn't be surprised when the GT3 and turbo are going to be the top models, maybe GT2 a very limited edition that combines the best of both worlds, and then the 960 to fill the "junior supercar" niche.

    Agreed. All they needed to do was make the 991 turbo S more like RC calls for, a turbo RS... And forget all the gt2.

    The GT2 models were always massively (!) different from the turbos. You basically need to change nearly everything in a turbo to get to a GT2. How you call the product afterwards is more subject to marketing considerations. The point is: turbo and GT2 are way different cars. It is not just AWD vs. RWD.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Joost:

    To be honest, I never really understood the GT2 (after the initial 993 GT): GT3 is the track toy, turbo is the GT meister... then what nich does the GT2 fill?!?

    Seriously? The GT2 is the car which is faster than the GT3 - and much more precise than the turbo. It combines the strengths of the turbo with those of the GT3 (for those who have a preference for turbo engines). Fastest - on the track and on the Autobahn. Simple answer Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Markus,
    You may very well be right, and don't understand me wrong; I LOVE the GT2 and all that it stands for (massive power combined with fantastic setup), and I know I can't really comment since I never drove either one of them. (Well, 996 GT3 for ten minutes :-P). But I think marketing-wise it is a bit of an odd car. I wish I could still find that awesome mmovie: it showed a 996 GT3 and a 996 GT2 together on the track. The GT2 slipping and powersliding in each and every corner, the GT3 driving the clean line supersharp, both more or less equally fast...

    Let's rephrase what I meant to say before: It wouldn't surprise me too much, if you see that in the 991 generation, character/marketing of the GT3/Turbo/GT2 was changed a bit wrt the 997generation to allow for a car in the junior supercar niche.

    Maybe I see it wrongly, and am I also fooled by the seemingly (exterior) resemblance between the turbo and the GT2... I think there's no other solution: I'll need to drive these puppies... anyone? smiley


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    http://www.autozeitung.de/erlkoenige/2014-porsche-911-gt2-991-erlkoenig-turbo-gn-401147

     


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    http://www.autogespot.com/porsche-991-gt2/2013/06/27

    Btw, mule is PDK. Engine? Check out the pics carefully... I know what engine is in the mule.

    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Kreso, how long are you going to torture us before you can tell us? :)


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    KresoF1:
    http://www.autogespot.com/porsche-991-gt2/2013/06/27

    Btw, mule is PDK. Engine? Check out the pics carefully... I know what engine is in the mule.

     

    Ah ha. I see the turbos now.

    So Porsche is going to switch the GT2/GT3 to the central exhausts?

     


     
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