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    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Aside from the hp deficit, my dd X5 40e hybrid does a wonderfull job regarding switching between electric and petrol power. I often have to look at the rpm to see wich engine is powering the wheels, it's that smooth. Never was this impressed with the E-hybrids from Porsche. yes


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    997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    The problem with the Panamera is that the engine sound is noticeable, that's why the change over is noticeable. In a quiet car, say a Lexus or something, then it won't get noticed.


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Na Mezger:

    https://youtu.be/v127kcXPhJU

    Great test and again it shows that here is something wrong with the Panamera since the beginning on. I see the problem that it is neither beautiful, nor sporty, nor luxurious, nor elegant, nor a sedan, nor family car - the Panamera can do a lot of thing but nothing of in perfection. Sadly 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    No Porsche, nor any car, does anything to perfection. To make  such a judgement about the Panamera in this video is really quite silly. One driver, slamming around both cars on a short track, hardly leads to a rational and balanced conclusion. The real question should be which car is better  overall.   And of course the answer to that is a very personal one based on your needs, preferences and financial situation. wink


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Wonderbar:

    No Porsche, nor any car, does anything to perfection. To make  such a judgement about the Panamera in this video is really quite silly. One driver, slamming around both cars on a short track, hardly leads to a rational and balanced conclusion. The real question should be which car is better  overall.   And of course the answer to that is a very personal one based on your needs, preferences and financial situation. wink

    Well - I agree on the judgement of the driver. For my statement I should have added "in my opinion" sorry for that! Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    I live in South Africa, not sure about pricing elsewhere but the Panamera Turbo is $ 46k more and E-hybrid S $ 76k more. The Merc looks better IMO (this is subjective of course) certainly sounds better and seems to have the Porshe covered for pace (not the ideal track to test either car). Hard to find a reason to want to own a Porsche in this segment here. The 911 range is totally different.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Wonderbar:

    No Porsche, nor any car, does anything to perfection. To make  such a judgement about the Panamera in this video is really quite silly. One driver, slamming around both cars on a short track, hardly leads to a rational and balanced conclusion. The real question should be which car is better  overall.   And of course the answer to that is a very personal one based on your needs, preferences and financial situation. wink

    Heard the Panamera Turbo (not Turbo S) during a car meet/drive. Very muted V8 sound, like a V8 fart Smiley, very subtle and barely noticeable (from the outside!).

    Heard the new E63 AMG S Saturday at lake Starnberg, car was passing by, stopping and then accelerating into another road. Wow, what a beautiful (not very loud but quite noticeable) deep V8 sound. This is how you do it. Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    I prefer a quieter  sound – and I generally like the Panamera.  But the new model is too generic overall. To me, the new model really needs the sport design kit to give it some excitement. And it does really irritate me that the base turbo looks just like the base Panamera four. Then for Porsche to charge an extra 4K for a sport design kit, and even worse, over $1000 for the rearview  camera, seems a calculated rip/off. I recently rented a Chevrolet Malibu for $25 a day, and it came standard with a very good rear camera. The Porsche turbo (or any Porsche) should have that option as standard.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    There is about $15k of options that should be standard on all Porshes. My RRS Autobiography came with most things included and was way cheaper than a Cayenne turbo, let alone a Panamera 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    SciFrog:

    There is about $15k of options that should be standard on all Porshes. My RRS Autobiography came with most things included and was way cheaper than a Cayenne turbo, let alone a Panamera 

     

    The Land Rover brand is quite below that of Porsche that's why.

    The SVR is basically a Turbo S clone and almost half the price. 

    Land Rover really don't have the brand equity of Porsche at the end of the day. 

     


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    That is true. That said for example there is zero price negotiation on a Range Rover around here, the dealer sells every single allocation they get so they do not discount. However I have never bought a Porsche without some sort of good discount...


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Thanks Whoopsy,  and I agree that the brands are different. My neighbor and good friend has a high end Land Rover, as well as a 150 K Tesla X. Both are nice cars, but very different from the overall performance integrated approach of Porsche.  But that doesn't mean Porsche should not  include very basic  convenience technologies like rearview cameras. I hope someone can explain why these are not included but right now it just seems that Porsche has intentionally excluded them so it  can simply pad the profit line.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Wonderbar:

    Thanks Whoopsy,  and I agree that the brands are different. My neighbor and good friend has a high end Land Rover, as well as a 150 K Tesla X. Both are nice cars, but very different from the overall performance integrated approach of Porsche.  But that doesn't mean Porsche should not  include very basic  convenience technologies like rearview cameras. I hope someone can explain why these are not included but right now it just seems that Porsche has intentionally excluded them so it  can simply pad the profit line.

     

    And we all know that's how Porsche has always conduct business this way.

    My SVR at half the price still has more content than the Cayenne Turbo S, soft closing doors for example.

    Granted,the material used is of a lower grade, as in leather, but that really doesn't account for the gigantic price difference, the difference is due to brand equity.


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Whoopsy:
    Wonderbar:

    Thanks Whoopsy,  and I agree that the brands are different. My neighbor and good friend has a high end Land Rover, as well as a 150 K Tesla X. Both are nice cars, but very different from the overall performance integrated approach of Porsche.  But that doesn't mean Porsche should not  include very basic  convenience technologies like rearview cameras. I hope someone can explain why these are not included but right now it just seems that Porsche has intentionally excluded them so it  can simply pad the profit line.

     

    And we all know that's how Porsche has always conduct business this way.

    My SVR at half the price still has more content than the Cayenne Turbo S, soft closing doors for example.

    Granted,the material used is of a lower grade, as in leather, but that really doesn't account for the gigantic price difference, the difference is due to brand equity.

    The gigantic difference comes from profit margins. Just compare Porsche's profit margin with the one of Range Rover. I think Porsche managers would have a blast laughing at them. Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    The profit margins are the result of this brand positioning. Not the other day around.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    SciFrog:

    The profit margins are the result of this brand positioning. Not the other day around.

    Porsche always had a high profit, especially since Wiedeking but the brand positioning is definitely clever, no doubt about it. The former Cayenne, Panamera and Macan base Diesel models with very low hp figures are a very good example of clever brand positioning. Saw a Cayenne Diesel (not the S!!!) for over 100k EUR, fully loaded. Crazy. Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

     Regarding the exhaust sound. I'm in LA at the moment and have seen two new Panameras that sounded pretty good.  They must have had the sport exhaust option.  Could not tell if they were turbos or not. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Wonderbar:

     Regarding the exhaust sound. I'm in LA at the moment and have seen two new Panameras that sounded pretty good.  They must have had the sport exhaust option.  Could not tell if they were turbos or not. 

    Just pay your local Mercedes AMG dealer a visit and listen to the sound of an E63 S AMG or a C63 S AMG. Perfect. Not too loud, not too annoying, deep V8 growl, loud enough to be noticeable but not loud enough to annoy people around you. Very nice sound, I wish the Panamera would sound similar but I think that Porsche went the "do not attract too much attention" route. Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    “Noise is unused energy” -Dr. Wolfgang Ullrich (Audi)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Spyderidol:

    “Noise is unused energy” -Dr. Wolfgang Ullrich (Audi)

    He got old, this is why he left... Smiley Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    I believe backup cameras are required in the US now so Porsche does not charge extra here. I believe. Every new car now has to have one.  The average 15k Hyundai contains 25k in Porsche 'Options'


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

     Porsche does charge extra for a rear "surround view" camera. Maybe this option is more than the typical rearview camera. Anyone know if the surround camera is different from a standard rear camera?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    For the Cayenne and Panamera, Surround means all around the car, like top down view.


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Whoopsy:

    For the Cayenne and Panamera, Surround means all around the car, like top down view.

    Smiley Not a fan of this option because the view is usually a bit distorted. Not sure how good it works on newer cars though.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

     According to standard Panamera specs, every car comes with Park assist front and rear. The surround view option has three more cameras to give a more complete view.  Personally, I'm not convinced the surround option is worth the $1000 plus charge. Anybody have another view?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    I had a Maserati Levante for 6 months before I traded it in for the Panamera. It had the surround view camera system which was excellent and very accurate. It is a really useful option if you have to park in tight spaces.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    ISUK:

    I had a Maserati Levante for 6 months before I traded it in for the Panamera. It had the surround view camera system which was excellent and very accurate. It is a really useful option if you have to park in tight spaces.

    So this means the camera view wasn't distorted? 


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    The surround view in my Cayenne is fine, no distortion and great for parking that's for sure.

    That's combined with parking sensors makes the whole system just about fool proof.

    Mine you, there will always be idiots that will screw that up........................


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    RC:
    ISUK:

    I had a Maserati Levante for 6 months before I traded it in for the Panamera. It had the surround view camera system which was excellent and very accurate. It is a really useful option if you have to park in tight spaces.

    So this means the camera view wasn't distorted? 

    The picture was really clear and it was even easy to see the different coloured paving blocks that I have on the edge of my drive and parking area. if you haven't tried it out on the latest models it is worth taking a look as the camera resolution has improved greatly.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New Panamera (2016)

    Given how low you sit in the Panamera and how big it is, I would definitely go for the surround cameras. They could also  save you from scratching the wheels when maneuvering close to curbs. Such systems could be found in most modern premium cars so it would be stratnge not to have them in such an expensive car, even from the perspective of resale. 


     
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