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    Tried 12 different Porche today

    I was invited by my local dealer to try nearly all their cars on a track. What a day!!!
    There was two sessions. 1h30 in the morning. 2 hours in the afternoon.
    I was able to attend both. 20 people at each sessions. Did each time two laps and then changed cars for the one we wanted.
    So here is what I tried ( a few times) and my impressions:
    Boxster
    Boxster S
    Boxster tiptronic
    996C4
    996C4S cab
    996 C4S plus ( this one was one of the least pleasant to take around the track !!! )
    996 TT I loved specialy the PCCB brakes!!!!
    997 C2
    997 C2 Cab ( but I am not a fan of the open roof feeling)
    997 C2 tiptronic ( I have to admit that it was better than what I had expected from an ' automatic' )
    997 C2 -20mm That was my favourite ! What a car, what a feeling aound the track, I just loved it!!!

    But now I have a big problem again
    After lots of hesitations a few weeks ago, I preordered a 997 C4S, thinking I will need the 4 for the winter conditions around here... but, I like the feel of the C2 today so much, 996 C4 was ok, 996 C4S was disapointing. So, I don't know what to da again. I know I was on a track with perfect weather conditions.... Would I notice so much difference on the roads? Do I realy need the 4WD on cold, slippery roads? Should I think about having a second car to drive when the weather is too bad?
    And what about the -20mm ??? Loved it on the trac. The PASM car felt safer, as I felt PASM helped correct the 'mistakes', but it also took some 'wibe' away.
    I will drive my car maybe only once a year on a track....
    What a great day....but now I am even more confused then before

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    Ohhhhhh and I forgot.
    There was a GT2 , but you had to be in the passenger's seat.
    The driver was a 16 year old girl !! Driving like a maniak !!!!!!!! She does the formula Renauld championship and she was just mad!

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    Jeez, you were busy today! Must have been really nice.

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    Why no C2S to drive? It seems like that would be the overall best choice

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    Quote:
    SrfCity said:
    Why no C2S to drive? It seems like that would be the overall best choice



    Just sold out!

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    Gnil,
    Awesome day for you man!!!
    Did you have the chance to take some pictures maybe.
    If you say you didn't have a camera, shame on you!!!
    Re your choice, yes a C2 feels more "agile" than a C4, especially if the C4 you tried was a C4S, the "fat" one
    Different use for quite similar cars but not in their behaviour.
    If you want to track a bit, then go for a C2S with -20 mm chassis.
    It'll be fine in the winter too as long as you don't drive like a maniac.
    Remember, best safety feature is your right foot!

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    Remember, best safety feature is your right foot!



    Very well said!

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    You don't need 4wd as I found when I went over the alps in the snow recently following a C4S quite comfortably through the snow.

    As for -20mm I just love it and even would prefer it over PASM
    even if the car never went on track. If you like the feel of this setup you will find 4wd Porsches are just too understeery and bland in comparison.

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    Quote:
    SrfCity said:
    Why no C2S to drive? It seems like that would be the overall best choice



    You are right , I made a mistake.

    The two last ones I mentioned where 997 C2S.. so that is : 997 C2S tiptronic
    997 C2S - 20mm

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    Wicked day gnil and thanks for the info because it kind of settles my decision on my recent order of a 997C2S ( slate grey ) with maybe the -20mm option ..

    Just pondering though , will it be to hard for UK roads but its a tempting choice with the fact that its not my only car , my other vehicle a Toyota Landcruiser , so ones fun and the other family..

    Thanks again..

    throt.

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    Gnil,
    Awesome day for you man!!!
    Did you have the chance to take some pictures maybe.
    If you say you didn't have a camera, shame on you!!! :





    I did not have a camera
    But a friend had his..I will ask for some picks.

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    Quote:
    throt said:
    Wicked day gnil and thanks for the info because it kind of settles my decision on my recent order of a 997C2S ( slate grey ) with maybe the -20mm option ..

    Just pondering though , will it be to hard for UK roads but its a tempting choice with the fact that its not my only car , my other vehicle a Toyota Landcruiser , so ones fun and the other family..

    Thanks again..

    throt.



    It is fine on UK roads and even got me across Ireland in total comfort. It is a compromise between hard and soft settings on PASM and is never annoying or jiggly. It is a little bit lower though so you have to be a bit more wary of speed bumps.

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    Quote:
    jjr1 said:
    Quote:
    throt said:
    Wicked day gnil and thanks for the info because it kind of settles my decision on my recent order of a 997C2S ( slate grey ) with maybe the -20mm option ..

    Just pondering though , will it be to hard for UK roads but its a tempting choice with the fact that its not my only car , my other vehicle a Toyota Landcruiser , so ones fun and the other family..

    Thanks again..

    throt.



    It is fine on UK roads and even got me across Ireland in total comfort. It is a compromise between hard and soft settings on PASM and is never annoying or jiggly. It is a little bit lower though so you have to be a bit more wary of speed bumps.



    I second that, I gave it the fill paved road parisien treatment and it's no harder than my M030 996. Superb setup, definitly go for it if your 997S is gonna be a pleasure car.

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    Awesome!

    What a coincidence... Here in Portugal (and Spain) today it was the Porsche Day!

    I don't have time to make a big report, but basicaly we took our cars to the Estoril circuit, and test some new Boxster in the Paddock area, testing how the ESP and brakes work.

    It was raining, and easily putting an old 911 sideways in a circuit is an extraordinary feeling!

    What a great day it was!


    Edit: Oh.. I had a camera! eheh DVD format. In a couple of days i'll resize it and post somewhere.

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    Quote:
    gnil said: Would I notice so much difference on the roads? Do I realy need the 4WD on cold, slippery roads? Should I think about having a second car to drive when the weather is too bad?

    And what about the -20mm ??? Loved it on the trac. The PASM car felt safer, as I felt PASM helped correct the 'mistakes', but it also took some 'wibe' away.



    What a day!!! you are very fortunate to get to try all in the same day at the track to compare, but the more you try the more choices

    As to the AWD, if by bad weather you mean snow then forget AWD, the important thing is getting snow tires, C4 with with summer tires in the snow is as useless as the C2. I have tried a C4 in the snow, PSM and AWD make no difference.
    And if by bad weather you mean wet roads, then AWD is a help but its not a must. Like Fanch says your best safety is your right foot. The C2 is perfectly suited for rain, its just that the AWD of the C4 gives it an edge, but only at the limit mind you. Nowadays with thing like PSM and the superb traction the 997 has, AWD is not as big of a deal, unless we are talking about 500HP figures.

    The -20mm... too late, seems to me that now that you have tried it you have to get it or you may regret it everytime you turn that ignition key. If you are worried about PASM being safer, then the best thing to do is to learn and get used to the -20mm, not avoid it, or like I said you will regret it. A couple of the track events and you will never look back
    Also the rear LSD of the -20mm can be of help in bad weather compared to the PASM, due to the greater traction it gives to the rear.

    My too cents

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    Wow, what a day.

    I'd go for the C2S -20mm and a rusty, cheap, old squeeker for the ugly days.

    Which dealer does offer such testing days? Mine doesn't, however he's pretty good at lending me cars for testdrives.

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    Quote:
    gnil said:

    The driver was a 16 year old girl !! Driving like a maniak !!!!!!!! She does the formula Renauld championship and she was just mad!



    Man picked the wrong career path 10 years ago...and i'm only 18

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    Quote:
    gnil said:

    But now I have a big problem again
    After lots of hesitations a few weeks ago, I preordered a 997 C4S, thinking I will need the 4 for the winter conditions around here... but, I like the feel of the C2 today so much, 996 C4 was ok, 996 C4S was disapointing. So, I don't know what to da again. I know I was on a track with perfect weather conditions.... Would I notice so much difference on the roads? Do I realy need the 4WD on cold, slippery roads? Should I think about having a second car to drive when the weather is too bad?
    And what about the -20mm ??? Loved it on the trac. The PASM car felt safer, as I felt PASM helped correct the 'mistakes', but it also took some 'wibe' away.
    I will drive my car maybe only once a year on a track....
    What a great day....but now I am even more confused then before



    Hi!

    I got the same "problem" like you, gnil. But I don't really need 4WD, but I like the wider body... I will have to see, how the C4S will look in real, if I don't see any real optical diferences to the 2WD Carrera S than I'll go for the 997 Carrera S (but also here I'm not sure... should I take the sport suspension or the PASM... It will be my first 911).

    Last but not least to answere your question (underlined )... I would always think of a allday-secondary-car, if the weather conditions are to bad you can leave your Porsche at home. That's how I'll do it... it doesn't care, who does the driving-mistake when the weather is to "slippery", the result will be the same... a crashed 911 . Ok, ok... it would be even more worse if someone gets injured.
    Maybe you should even think of this point?! This helped me to decide to have another older car beside the 911.

    Greetings

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    gnil, I live in Bavaria. Our winters may not be as white as yours in Switzerland but if you don't live in the mountains, you really don't need 4WD on the 997.
    I drove my 997 Carrera S during the whole last winter and as you may remember, we had lots of snow in Bavaria, Austria and Switzerland. I have 235/295-19''winter tires (same size as summer tires) and I had NO problems whatsoever with traction or the car slipping away. Braking performance was good too. I have to mention though that my car has the limited slip differential (20 mm chassis) but due to the low locking percentage, I don't think it really makes a HUGE difference regarding winter driving.

    I'm pretty sure the new 997 Carrera 4 S is a stunning car and it should perform very well. But look at the price tag and tell me if it is worth it for a slightly wider b.tt and 4WD, giving away a lighter weight and better performance, not to speak about top speed.

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:

    As to the AWD, if by bad weather you mean snow then forget AWD, the important thing is getting snow tires..
    My too cents



    Ehh, not quite sure what you mean here Carlos. Won't snow tires and 4wd be the best option for driving in the snow? That's my two cents

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    As to the AWD, if by bad weather you mean snow then forget AWD, the important thing is getting snow tires, C4 with with summer tires in the snow is as useless as the C2.
    The -20mm... too late, seems to me that now that you have tried it you have to get it or you may regret it everytime you turn that ignition key. If you are worried about PASM being safer, then the best thing to do is to learn and get used to the -20mm, not avoid it, or like I said you will regret it. A couple of the track events and you will never look back
    Also the rear LSD of the -20mm can be of help in bad weather compared to the PASM, due to the greater traction it gives to the rear.

    My too cents



    I always put winter tyres on my cars from november to march. It is a MUST on our roads. It even helps on cold wet roads ( under 5 degres)
    Carlos...You may be right about the -20mm. Now that I have tested..I will always remember the great feeling and might feel a bit bored with PASM , a bit too bland (Not that it is bland, but just comparing to the -20mm)

    Quote:
    Matt C said:
    Wow, what a day.

    I'd go for the C2S -20mm and a rusty, cheap, old squeeker for the ugly days.

    Which dealer does offer such testing days? Mine doesn't, however he's pretty good at lending me cars for testdrives.



    It was AMAG Lausanne in the morning, bank Bear in the afternoon. I know that AMAG Geneva did it the day before. I am pretty sure all AMAG dealers in Switzerland provide this once a year.
    Quote:
    RC said:

    gnil, I live in Bavaria. Our winters may not be as white as yours in Switzerland but if you don't live in the mountains, you really don't need 4WD on the 997.
    I drove my 997 Carrera S during the whole last winter and as you may remember, we had lots of snow in Bavaria, Austria and Switzerland. I have 235/295-19''winter tires (same size as summer tires) and I had NO problems whatsoever with traction or the car slipping away. Braking performance was good too. I have to mention though that my car has the limited slip differential (20 mm chassis) but due to the low locking percentage, I don't think it really makes a HUGE difference regarding winter driving.

    I'm pretty sure the new 997 Carrera 4 S is a stunning car and it should perform very well. But look at the price tag and tell me if it is worth it for a slightly wider b.tt and 4WD, giving away a lighter weight and better performance, not to speak about top speed.



    I live on lake Geneva...and I have about 10 days of snow around here , but I do go to the mountains sometimes..
    I am starting to be convinced by your comments...So, RC, you drove sometimes on snow and it was Ok ? And it was fine on the cold salty wet winter roads..?
    If I go for the C2S I can have it in 2 to 3 month. If I go for the C4S, it will be around the end of the year..

    Phonix....We are in the exact same position
    But I am getting very impatient... I don't know if I can wait to see the C4S live , before deceiding
    And, yes, a second old cheap car might be a good option

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    For a second old cheap car for the mountain in the winter, I recommend the Fiat Panda 4x4, awesome car on the icy and snowy road, makes minced meat of Cayennes, Hummers, X5, etc.
    I don't think so, I know so! It's just so light! And actually fun to drive, just make sure no one comes your way, but you can do whatever you want with that car.
    I'm talking about the old version, Fiat made a new one but don't know how good it is.
    Otherwise, a 3 series X version (4WD) or an Audi Quattro (again the old ones).
    Personally not a huge fan of SUV anyway, way too heavy to be efficient winter mountain roads cars. I'm talking quite high up roads here (like 1850 m, etc.)
    Also depends what you mean by cheap of course, I think a Fiat Panda 4x4 is a bit cheaper than a Cayenne Turbo but I'm not 100% sure.

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    For a second old cheap car for the mountain in the winter, I recommend the Fiat Panda 4x4



    Haha, nice one!
    Just make sure you don't crash in it, since it appears to be made of tinfoil. And what's up with the beachchairs they put in as frontseats?

    If you want a fairly cheap car that's fun to drive, practical and has good traction, I can recommend the Subaru Impreza WRX. The WRX STi version is not recommended since the ride is on the wrong side of harsh and that it might be faster than your 911 in some conditions

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    Man no one commented on this!!


    "996 C4S plus ( this one was one of the least pleasant to take around the track !!! )"


    Is there such a model?? I saw once a 996 C4S Plus with switzerland plates in Greece and i thought it was a fake!

    But appears it wasnt...Can someone give info about this model variation???

    Thank you a lot!

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    I find the comments downplaying the importance of AWD for winter driving interesting. Where I live (Rochester, New York, USA-hundreds of miles/kilometers away from New York City, on Lake Ontario-which stays unfrozen almost every winter) we get over 100 inches/250 centimeters of snow in an average winter, and I live on a hilltop with a driveway that angles 45 degrees midway up and is at an incline of nearly 30%, even FWD with snow tires isn't sufficient for traction. I have been driving AWD since it became widely available on cars. My latest winter car is an Audi S4 (sport version of A4 with 4.3L V8) which I tuned up aftermarket, it's a Quattro and handles great and climbs the driveway. My summer car has been a BMW M-Roadster, the Z3 (1999) with the 3.2L 6 M-engine. I can't wait to replace that with the 997 which I could use in winter with the AWD. I would be hesitant to drive the RWD in winter based on the above experience with non-AWD cars, but is the 911 being also a rear-engine car better handling as RWD or is it more related to the traction control electronics or both? If the AWD from the turbo were to help me for winter, then I might buy 2 997's (? a 997 GT2 for the summer if they make it ). Any comments re. steep alpine climbs with RWD 997's?

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    gnil, This sounds like a dream date!! What a day, can't wait for the pix. Can you provide a little bit of colour on your experience with the TIP on the track.

    many thx

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    Quote:
    gnil said:
    996 C4S plus ( this one was one of the least pleasant to take around the track !!! )





    Gnil, what's the 996 C4S Plus?????

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    ...As to the AWD, if by bad weather you mean snow then forget AWD, the important thing is getting snow tires, C4 with with summer tires in the snow is as useless as the C2. I have tried a C4 in the snow, PSM and AWD make no difference.
    And if by bad weather you mean wet roads, then AWD is a help but its not a must. Like Fanch says your best safety is your right foot. The C2 is perfectly suited for rain, its just that the AWD of the C4 gives it an edge, but only at the limit mind you. Nowadays with thing like PSM and the superb traction the 997 has, AWD is not as big of a deal, unless we are talking about 500HP figures.

    The -20mm... too late, seems to me that now that you have tried it you have to get it or you may regret it everytime you turn that ignition key. If you are worried about PASM being safer, then the best thing to do is to learn and get used to the -20mm, not avoid it, or like I said you will regret it. A couple of the track events and you will never look back
    ...



    Carlos,

    couldn't have said it better!

    The AWD config on the Carrera is more aimed at improving vehicle dynamics than improving traction in bad weather. Remember the fact that 40 % at the maximum is directed to the front wheels and keep in mind the comparably low weight at the front axle, it becomes obvious that it should only be a slight improvement over the already good traction of a rear-engined vehicle!

    Dilinger, the C4S plus was a special edition for Switzerland, basically just some bundled options as standard and the famous badge.

    Gnil, what did you dislike on the C4S in detail?

    By the way, I would also go for the C2S with -20mm suspension! I don't need the wider looks on the C4, in fact I am VERY curious how the first driving reviews will report about its handling, and the car will loose some dynamics in the longitudinal way. For the price difference I would indeed buy me one of the new Panda 4x4s, which seem to be similiar remarkable in snowy conditions as its predecessor.

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    The 996 C4S plus was a special Swiss edition of the C4S with some options coming standard not unlike the 996 Turbo S.

    Re: Tried 12 different Porche today

    thank i found it in old files!!

     
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