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    HUGE Depreciation Hits

    I have been shopping for a boxster for quite some time. The one thing I can tell you is that these cars take HUGE hits on depreciaton. For example - 2004 Boxsters are selling for 20K less than they were new at say 59K. You can pick up a 2004 for like 41K. I was going to buy new but am having second thoughts. Thats 1/3 of the value of the car in 1 year. Gives you pause about dropping all that coin on a new one.

    Its unbeleivable actually. I would have never expected that from a Porsche.

    Re: HUGE Depreciation Hits

    Yeah, but there may be some leveling off after that. Kelly Blue Book says an average 2002 S should sell for $33.5K retail. After 10 years, my 968 cab had not only leveled off, but had gone up slightly. I got a little less than 50% of what I paid for it new. What I paid new was about $10K off MSRP. I also paid $3400 less than MSRP for my 987S. Most cars are going to take a big hit in the beginning. With Porshes, you have to look more long-term. These cars are keepers, and they're as satisfying 5-10 years out -- and more -- as when they are new. If you're looking for something you're only going to keep a short time, a Porshche may not be the right car for you, IMHO.

    Re: HUGE Depreciation Hits

    Also bear in mind that 2004 cars are 986s not 987s. Any car replaced with a new model tend to depreciated more than they ordinarily do so.

    Re: HUGE Depreciation Hits

    Quote:
    tincanman99 said:
    I have been shopping for a boxster for quite some time. The one thing I can tell you is that these cars take HUGE hits on depreciaton. For example - 2004 Boxsters are selling for 20K less than they were new at say 59K. You can pick up a 2004 for like 41K. I was going to buy new but am having second thoughts. Thats 1/3 of the value of the car in 1 year. Gives you pause about dropping all that coin on a new one.

    Its unbeleivable actually. I would have never expected that from a Porsche.



    You should thank your lucky stars your are not considering a 997. You can figure at least a $10,000 loss as soon as you put one mile on it. Another poster stated it correctly. Don't buy a Porsche for short term. You will lose your shirt. Long term is better but not much. TOO many are being produced.

    Re: HUGE Depreciation Hits

    ALG gives depreciation ratings www.alg.com. It's mostly used to determine the residual value of a car for leasing companies. The ratings go from 1 to 5. I believe the Boxster is a 3. The difference between a 3 and a 5 is maybe 10%. I wouldn't call that HUGE. If you've never owned a new car then the first two years depreciation can be a sticker shock.

    You can go to cars.com and use the residual tool and it will give the alg value: http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?...mp;aff=national

    Re: HUGE Depreciation Hits

    Now that cars are largely recyclable we have disposable cars for disposable income.

    Re: HUGE Depreciation Hits

    Quote:
    ezzie said:
    Also bear in mind that 2004 cars are 986s not 987s. Any car replaced with a new model tend to depreciated more than they ordinarily do so.

    Correct. That is pretty much the only reason for 04'986 losing its value so fast at the moment.

    And if I were to consider a 04 986 S with 250 bhp, why not go for the 987 with 240 bhp for pretty much the same price a second hand 04'986 S is being offered for? I would definitely pick a new 987 non-S instead.

    Re: HUGE Depreciation Hits



    And if I were to consider a 04 986 S with 250 bhp, why not go for the 987 with 240 bhp for pretty much the same price a second hand 04'986 S is being offered for? I would definitely pick a new 987 non-S instead.



    How do others feel about 986S vs 987?
    I almost bought a new base but in the end went with 03 S with a lot more options and a few $K less, but mostly because I thought the S was far superior when it comes to torque and power. There's more to these cars differences than a few hp. I did prefer 987 trans and exhaust sound though.
    Also buying a used certified not only saves $$ but you get an extra 2 yr warranty, worth keeping in mind if you plan on keeping it.

    986 vs 987

    In the last 2 years of the 986 Porsche appears to have upgraded the interior a bit - thats 2003-2004. The interior is nowhere nears as plastic-ish as it was before. The 03/04's also have a glass back window.

    That being said while the interior of a 987 is better than a 986 I still would not classify it as nice as say an Audi. Audi interiors are beautiful and are of high quality. The TT is built like a vault.

    I am leaning now toward a used 03-04 with an extended warranty. You can pick up an 04 S for like 40K and thats with low mileage. I have not seen any 987's roll out for much under 50K. Most are closer to 55-60K. 20K in one year is a lot of green, that is money I could have in the market.

    I am a keeper and am planning on holding onto the car for a long time. Engine/transmission issues not withstanding. I have heard many stories about the RMS and engines grenading on the 986. While shopping I asked the dealer point blank about the RMS and he told me that its happening even on the 987. Its not as common but its the same engine and transmission as the 986. Porsche has reengineered the seal and is using some kind of expoxy with it. The RMS will not cause the engine to fail but you will have leaks that have to watched.

    Though my cube neighbor just got an E46 M3 convertible for 42K. It has a kick butt engine and drives great. Gives me something to think about....

    Re: HUGE Depreciation Hits

    TinCan, don't forget the base price on a '04 Boxster 5 speed
    was about $43,000 US. Options mean virtually nothing in terms of resale value. Remember, you could buy a brand new
    '06 ( all new car ) for a mere $44,000.....Revvv

    Re: HUGE Depreciation Hits

    you think that depreciation is bad, try a mercedes SL-55 i lost 30% of the car's value in 1 year

    but let's face it, cars are NOT an investment(generally speaking) it will always lose it's value no matter what and one shouldn't think too much about the resale upon purchasing because you're going to be getting a hell of a lot less than what ever you paid for it originally. so just buy it enjoy it, and worry about the trade in price when the time comes.

    Re: HUGE Depreciation Hits

    Its pure and simple , its down to the huge production vacuum rate which is well propped from all these various purchase plans which then in a big effect screws the owners of these prestige cars ..

    Bigger volume = poor results , simple ..

    throt..

    Re: HUGE Depreciation Hits

    I agree with Mike S. If all you worry about is money then don't buy an expensive car - leave the cash in the piggy bank. We buy these expensive toys because of the pleasure they give and the pride of ownership, if we can afford these things buy them and enjoy them. We make these purchases with our eyes open so please stop whingeing on about losing money.

    Re: HUGE Depreciation Hits

    No whingeing on the thread as far as I can see so far just points and facts that should be considered before any purchase , however rich one might be ..

    Decisions decisions ..

    throt..

    Re: HUGE Depreciation Hits

    What I find really interesting is that there are so many '05s still on dealer lots. The 987 got universally rave reviews, as far as I can see. It should be in greater demand. The dealers have been discounting them almost from day one. I found one dealer in Ohio who was willing to take almost 11% off a really nice in-stock 987S without any negotiating. Even when I ordered mine back in March, I got 5.5% off, while the Corvette dealers were doing MSRP or maybe $1,000 off on the C6 convertibles.

    Re: HUGE Depreciation Hits

    Newer is better in the Boxster kingdom.

    The 987 benefits from inproved offset crash protection that help give it a stiffer chassis with better handling and leg room. The interior has better materials also.

    Get a standard 987 with heated seats and end it at that. Its the best car out there for the money. The S model doesnt really deliver anything more performance wise that you actually need or can use often on US roads. Nice to have,yes, worth another 10$K to drive everyday? Only if money doesnt really matter. The standard model Boxster is good enough on its own. The "base" 987 is the best deal that Porsche offers. Get one and be happy!

    Dont fry your wallet or brain on choosing options or calculating future depreciation.

    Re: HUGE Depreciation Hits

    I guess it is where you are, my dealer just sold his 2.7 which was 5 months old with 4500kms for full new car price, just hard to get here if you want it now. I agree new car model always reduces residual on older model & I would go for 987 anyday over 986.

    Re: HUGE Depreciation Hits

    Quote:
    throt said:
    No whingeing on the thread as far as I can see so far just points and facts that should be considered before any purchase , however rich one might be ..

    Decisions decisions ..

    throt..



    I agree - so having thought carefully and bought the car, don't whine and gripe afterwards if it loses money - 99% of cars do!

    We are better off depreciation wise here in the UK because new supply is carefully managed and there are no discounts off new price. Money off new price = depreciation later. The more discount, the more depreciation.

    Re: HUGE Depreciation Hits

    I'm finding it difficult to find places to use the power of the car in day-to-day driving anyway, so from that point of view, the base car is probably more than adequate 99% of the time. Brief squirts of overtaking power, then back to the speed limit, or the limit of the road if it's a twisty.

    So if you want to minimise your depreciation risk, get a base 987 with minimal options.

    However, if you're going to load it up with options, particularly leather and wheels (as most people do) you might as well go for the S. About half the cost difference between the base and the S is engine and brakes, the rest is due to options that you may well want to spec anyway.

    Re: HUGE Depreciation Hits

    Sad but true, Porsche is actually one of the brands that depreciate the least, but it's not getting better due to the fact they're producing more and more.
    I just sold my 996 C4 Cab for a bit more than 50% of its value new!
    But hey, I always knew depreciation was gonna be a bitch.
    Truth is, it was a very nicely equipped car and it's actually the mileage of car that made it hard for me to sell.
    And dig that, it only had 45000 km in three years! That's 15000 km a year (about 10000 miles a year or a bit less) which is the average for a car in Europe.
    What are people on about!!!
    Then I check the ads myseld and realise to my great sadness that most 02 996 like mine, had between 10000 and 20000 km.
    Garage queens... Porsche are made to be driven, the more you drive them, the better it gets!
    So there you go, plenty of 996s around for sale but mine, supposedly high mileage (rubbish!), low resale value.

    Like MikeS wrote, cars are not an investement, except rare limited edition exotics or brand new models with a long waiting list.
    But in general, any sensible person knows that is makes 110% sense to byu a car second hand, but here's the catch, for guys like us, we don't buy cars with our brain, we buy it with our hearts, otherwise, we'd all be driving Toyota Prius or VW Jetta Diesel (awesome cars to get from A to B BTW) and when you buy with the heart, well, reason is the last thing on your mind.

    If you want low depreciation, chose Ferrari, actually, it's an interesting case, it's not low depreciation, it's slow downed depreciation due to the low production numbers, F430 now is a great investment, but look at 5 years old 360s, they sell for about 50% of their value now (in Europe at least) and let's not talk about V12 models! Ouch!
    The downside on new models is that if you order one now, you'll be likely to wait at least 24 months.

    With every new car, the moment you turn the igintion for the 1st time, you lose min 20% of the car's value, Porsche included.

    Re: HUGE Depreciation Hits

    wise words, fanch!

    Quote:
    If you want low depreciation, chose Ferrari, actually, it's an interesting case, it's not low depreciation, it's slow downed depreciation due to the low production numbers, F430 now is a great investment, but look at 5 years old 360s, they sell for about 50% of their value now (in Europe at least)



    i don't agree with this one. there's no 360 berlinetta available below EUR 80K. price for new 6 speed modenas 5 years ago was approx DM 220.000, which is roughly around EUR 110.000... and even if it was 50% after 5 years... this would be a resale value, 996 or 986 owners would dream of.

    Re: HUGE Depreciation Hits

    Quote:
    zzboba said:
    wise words, fanch!

    Quote:
    If you want low depreciation, chose Ferrari, actually, it's an interesting case, it's not low depreciation, it's slow downed depreciation due to the low production numbers, F430 now is a great investment, but look at 5 years old 360s, they sell for about 50% of their value now (in Europe at least)



    i don't agree with this one. there's no 360 berlinetta available below EUR 80K. price for new 6 speed modenas 5 years ago was approx DM 220.000, which is roughly around EUR 110.000... and even if it was 50% after 5 years... this would be a resale value, 996 or 986 owners would dream of.



    I don't remember the price of the 360 when new, but you can find a lot of 360 in France for 85000, if you pay cash, they'll go for 75000 I'm sure.
    At Ferrari France, they have two for 90000 with WARRANTY! They'll go for 80000 to 85000.
    That's a 40% depreciation, a bit better but not by much than a Porsche.

    Re: HUGE Depreciation Hits

    My 1990 964 C2 is still worth 50% of what it cost in 1990....

    I Am Aware That A Car Is Not An Investment

    I dont expect it to make money as someone said unless its a rare car or hand made. I understand that a Porsche is about enjoyment more than anything else. Its not practical nor pragmatic. And thats fine.

    30% depreciation in the first year is huge though. Thats like a Chevy or something. I also have noticed there is no shortage of 987's. Where I live every single Porsche dealer has inventory on the lot to pick from. As of May/June lots of them still had 2004s still available. Lots of them. I suspect Porsche sales are slowing down on the Boxster.

    Re: HUGE Depreciation Hits

    Quote:
    964C2 said:
    My 1990 964 C2 is still worth 50% of what it cost in 1990....



    Exactly what I stated on another thread , the only way to get your moneys worth is to keep the vehicle for a sensible period . The wife has had her people carrier from brand new and it is now 6 yrs old she refuses to give it up because its been a trouble free ride thus giving us great value ..

    Chopping up every two yrs and your going to pay big time , VAT for a start but having said that I have done it many times ..

    Its all a no-brainer really ..

    throt..

    Re: I Am Aware That A Car Is Not An Investment

    Quote:
    tincanman99 said:
    I dont expect it to make money as someone said unless its a rare car or hand made. I understand that a Porsche is about enjoyment more than anything else. Its not practical nor pragmatic. And thats fine.

    30% depreciation in the first year is huge though. Thats like a Chevy or something. I also have noticed there is no shortage of 987's. Where I live every single Porsche dealer has inventory on the lot to pick from. As of May/June lots of them still had 2004s still available. Lots of them. I suspect Porsche sales are slowing down on the Boxster.



    right. there isn't really a difference in depreciation between a porsche 996/986 or -- let's say -- a 5 series BMW. and this was different some years ago.

    Re: HUGE Depreciation Hits

    Quote:
    I don't remember the price of the 360 when new, but you can find a lot of 360 in France for 85000, if you pay cash, they'll go for 75000 I'm sure.
    At Ferrari France, they have two for 90000 with WARRANTY! They'll go for 80000 to 85000.
    That's a 40% depreciation, a bit better but not by much than a Porsche.




    if you deduct 10% of the price of listed 4 to 5 year old 996/986, you end up with a 60% loss then. and most 996 are specced quite good (PCM, full leather) while at (especially early) 360's nothing was ticked.

    Re: I Am Aware That A Car Is Not An Investment

    Quote:
    zzboba said:
    Quote:
    tincanman99 said:
    I dont expect it to make money as someone said unless its a rare car or hand made. I understand that a Porsche is about enjoyment more than anything else. Its not practical nor pragmatic. And thats fine.

    30% depreciation in the first year is huge though. Thats like a Chevy or something. I also have noticed there is no shortage of 987's. Where I live every single Porsche dealer has inventory on the lot to pick from. As of May/June lots of them still had 2004s still available. Lots of them. I suspect Porsche sales are slowing down on the Boxster.



    right. there isn't really a difference in depreciation between a porsche 996/986 or -- let's say -- a 5 series BMW. and this was different some years ago.



    Sad and bad but true..

    throt..

    Re: I Am Aware That A Car Is Not An Investment

    Automobile manufacturers have increased their sales by financing themselves through their own credit corporations. The availability of leases and "rent to own" plans returns high initial profits at the showroom but eventually gluts the market down the line when these cars are turned in with 36-48 months. It would seem that one of the lessons that the Japanese taught Porsche in the early 90s is that high volume and turnover is essential for profitability. That was certainly true for the 996/986, but perhaps the 997 will fare better with decreased production which can be offset by other models. While the 997 is clearly in demand in our area, I don't see that much enthusiasm for the 987.

    Re: I Am Aware That A Car Is Not An Investment

    This thread is really sad... lets go back to how good our cars are!!! Lets forget that they wont sell as much after we ENJOYED IT for several years!



    Just Drive !

     
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