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    Z06 in Autocar

    I never paid that close attention to the Vettes but after seeing so many threads on rennteam and reading some native and European magazines articles on this car, I admit that I'm very impressed and my hats off to Vette's engineers.

    Even though I still prefer any European sports cars over this bad boy, I shall say that I'm very very impressed. Let's give credit where it's due, good job GM.

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/FirstDrive_Summary.asp?RT_ID=216919

    Re: Z06 in Autocar

    Yep amazing car for amazin price... and it has better weight to power ratio then SLR! CHeck MT magazine... Vette has 6.2 SLR 6.3

    Re: Z06 in Autocar

    Thanks Ron.
    I too prefer European performance cars to the Vette, but as you say, GM deserves credit for creating such a great performance car.
    As you probably know, American car magazines that have reviewed the ZO6 were obviously impressed, but said the steering lacked feel and that the chassis was uncommunicative. That's a little scary.
    I was almost impressed with the feel of the C6 Z51, but Porsche is still far ahead in overall feel. Also, not having driven any hardcore performance cars, like the GT3 for example, and not having driven the C6 hard enough (I'm never too enthusiastic with a car that isn't mine ), it's hard to make a valid comparison.
    Hopefully these problems don't hold it back from being the great performance car it can be.

    Re: Z06 in Autocar

    Amazing indeed. I never would have considered a Corvette in the past - but with this one - a test drive may be in order (don't know how I'll arrange that, though).

    As is probably the case with many of us, I buy cars for the whole package. The style, the feel, handling and power, the redline, the sound of the engine, the smell of the leather, HVS's time around the Green Hell, and dozens of other reasons that make my wife laugh. I once bought a black GMC Sierra Denali truck because it had four wheel steering, and semi-style lights on the roof of the cab. Then there are the powerful intangibles and brand associations. For me, Porsches are clean mechanical perfection, elegant and sophisticated but understated, purposeful and sober. Finally, I factor in price, as I cannot afford to disregard value.

    The case of the Z06 is a tough one. On paper, the performance is remarkable, and in person I am sure it would be stunning. The value is undeniable - a 997TT or a Z06 and $70,000 in change? But, in the morning, when I go out to the garage, what will I feel? Value does not stir the soul. And in real life, performance at the limits means little more than bragging rights. I will never drive 7:42 at Nurburgring and, for the most part, can't responsibly rocket to 60 in 3.5. Even if I did, would it be so different from 3.7? For me, value and performance will rarely, on their own, be deciding factors.

    At one extreme, my little S2000 was a wonderful value. Looks were so so, but it handled and felt great. Straight line performance was nothing to write home about, though with the top down, a 9000 rpm redline and a perfect gearbox, it was delightful through mountain roads. And at $32,000 dollars, I had no qualms about spending another $8,000 for some super light Volk CE28Ns, coilovers, and lightweight racing brakes. The end result was a go-kart. A fast, fun little car that did damn well at the track, even when compared to my friend's 360 F1. Now that was a good value.

    At the other end of the spectrum, the 996TT. The first time I drove it, my decision was made. The price was high, but at the time it represented everything I wanted from amazing performance to the little button that made the wing go up and down. Quite a thrill. Seems strange to say it, and even contrary to my point/counter-point, but all the tangibles and intangibles together somehow made it another good value. Or am I rationalizing? Hmmm.

    So anyway, back to the Z06? I think it is somewhere in the bad part of the middle. Maybe that's just another way to say that sports car buying is an emotional endeavor, and math alone can never solve for all of the variables. I will, however, reserve judgment until I (or a few more of you) drive one.

    Just rambling,

    Paul

    Re: Z06 in Autocar

    Paul,

    great comments. They do reflect my thoughts 100 percent!

    In fact I would and do have the same feeling getting up early and finding a particular car in my garage. The Vette just wouldn't stirr my blood - to me, it's like having unlimited access to Mc Donald's food. I just won't envy anybody who has it!

    In fact it is a shame to me that such a high-powered car, with a very race-orientated suspension, with one of the best drivers around on a track that the car was honed at - and it only delivers a 7:43? That's the same level a 996 GT2 Mk.1 with a driver on Magnussen's level would have been able to do - not to mention the Mk.2 version which would be absolutely on par with the Vette in performance numbers!
    And on top of that it doesn't even deliver the feel and communication of the European rivals! So what's the fuzz?

    Unfortunately GM can ONLY sell this car to such a ridiculous price - otherwise it would be grounded on the dealer's showroom. The amount of technology necessary to perform that well, especially the substantial changes over the 6.0l-model, cannot enable GM to receive a big gain in the end!

    Re: Z06 in Autocar

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    In fact it is a shame to me that such a high-powered car, with a very race-orientated suspension, with one of the best drivers around on a track that the car was honed at - and it only delivers a 7:43?



    Ferdie, please remember that the 7:43 time is just a rumour (actually, this rumour was spread by the same GM staff that also claimed 7:50 or so for the standard C06 which did only above 8.05 in sportauto). I am looking forward to the sportauto test of the Z06

    I think, any potential buyer of the Z06 should be warned that the rumour about the NBR time is very likely to be a marketing trick. I do not belief that the Z06 (as sold to customers) will do below 7:50 in the sportauto test. But let's wait and see

    Re: Z06 in Autocar

    I just remember one Danish (?) press article reporting about the Z06 NBR recordlap. I don't know if there has been any official timekeeping.

    Anyways, I would only accept laptimes if they come from a valid source - or are directly done by unbiased experts in a comparison test.

    Re: Z06 in Autocar

    This week's issue of Autoweek reports on the Z06 and states again that Magnussen did a 7:42.99 and a Z51 equipped C6 was 16 seconds slower......

    Re: Z06 in Autocar

    Quote:
    964C2 said:
    ...Magnussen did a 7:42.99 and a Z51 equipped C6 was 16 seconds slower......


    Oh, that's interesting. That seems much more appropriate than 7:50 min - especially if you take HVS's time into consideration!

    Re: Z06 in Autocar

    The new Z06 is a rocketship.

    Does it have the wet weather traction of a 911?,No.
    Does it have the luxury of a 911? No.
    Is it faster than a 997S? Yes.
    Is it quicker than a 997S? Yes.
    Is it more spartan inside? Yes.
    Does it feel like a Porsche? No.

    Its really a car for a sunny day when the sense of occaision
    calls for 500hp in a 3100lb car. Its definitely not a daily driver like a 997 is, but it doesnt have a 997 price either.

    Re: Z06 in Autocar

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Is it faster than a 997S? Yes.
    Is it quicker than a 997S? Yes.



    Jim - Feel free to substitute GT3 or 996TT here too...

    Re: Z06 in Autocar

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Its definitely not a daily driver like a 997 is, but it doesnt have a 997 price either.



    I don't see how it couldn't be a daily driver as long as you don't care about the luxury aspect. Plenty of people daily drive GT3s, Elises, etc. Will the ride of the Z06 be unreasonably harsh?

    - J

    Re: Z06 in Autocar

    Quote:
    Justin said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Its definitely not a daily driver like a 997 is, but it doesnt have a 997 price either.



    I don't see how it couldn't be a daily driver as long as you don't care about the luxury aspect. Plenty of people daily drive GT3s, Elises, etc. Will the ride of the Z06 be unreasonably harsh?

    - J


    Justin - It could easily be a daily driver for someone like you who is lucky enough to live in San Diego. It's just not really suitable for nasty weather...

    Re: Z06 in Autocar

    The suspension and acoustics of the Z06 seem to be rather on the harsh side, very track-orientated. The only upside is that this car has ESP standard.

    Honestly I have a few doubts that the Z06 will be significantly faster than the 996 TT-S - there was a comparison between F430, Gallardo and TT-S on German TV this weekend and all three posted 0-200kph times roundabout 13 sec. The ridiculous gearing on the Vette makes it virtually have one gear less for top-speed acceleration.
    Once again I have my doubts if a TT-S with factory sportsuspension would be that far off the Z06.

    What I do NOT factor in is price - you either have the money for a TT or you stay with a CarreraS. That's just my 02 cents, though I am very curious to drive on of the Vette models!

    Re: Z06 in Autocar

    Justin, the ride is not harsh, in fact its pretty good, the problem is with wet weather handling with the OEM tires and the prodigious amount of torque. Changing the tires from run flats to Michelin, Yokohamas or Toyos Proxes would help.
    But dont expect to be able to drive it in the snow like you can a 997. No matter what, its still a front engine car and will never have the traction of a 911.

    The creature comforts are enough. The detailing of the interior is something thats important to some people and not to others. Hey its a sports car, not a lounge.

    I wish Porsche would dare to build a spartan light wieght sports car again, but i doubt they ever will. The big money is in luxury options and in product positioning viz a viz consumer pricing acceptance. Porsche has the formula for that nailed down to perfection, they are geniuses at that!

    Re: Z06 in Autocar

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Is it faster than a 997S? Yes.
    Is it quicker than a 997S? Yes.



    Jim - Feel free to substitute GT3 or 996TT here too...



    No - you are wrong.

    If the Z06 is (as stated by GM) 16 seconds faster than the C6 its NBR time should be around 7:59 (as the C6 did 8:15 in sportauto).

    That is slower than GT3 and 996TT or any other of the faster Porsches. Not to mention the new generation GT3 or TT/GT2.

    Re: Z06 in Autocar

    But it does have a 997 price. At least for dealerships in my area. Comparing the ZO6's msrp is meaningless to me because you wont be able to actually buy the car for that price. Just like it was always strange to me when journalists compared the Ford GT'S MSRP price to a Ferrari 360. Dunno.

    Re: Z06 in Autocar

    7000 Z06s to be made in the first year.

    Ignore the second "Chump" sticker dealers throw on a car.

    There are dealers, like Kerbecks in NJ, who are selling them at MSRP now. Wait 6 months and they all will offer money off list price. Its only a Chevy!

    Re: Z06 in Autocar

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Is it faster than a 997S? Yes.
    Is it quicker than a 997S? Yes.



    Jim - Feel free to substitute GT3 or 996TT here too...



    No - you are wrong.

    If the Z06 is (as stated by GM) 16 seconds faster than the C6 its NBR time should be around 7:59 (as the C6 did 8:15 in sportauto).

    That is slower than GT3 and 996TT or any other of the faster Porsches. Not to mention the new generation GT3 or TT/GT2.



    The last Z06 was very similar to the then standard model Corvette. The New Z06 is WAY different from a standard model corvette. Its engine sits lower and further back, it has a lower center of gravity, and the brakes are gargantuan in comparison to the previous Z06 and the current C6 standard coupe.

    Claiming the lap time spread between a C5 Z06 and a C6 Z06 between their base models should be the same ignores the
    differences in their construction and design.

    Re: Z06 in Autocar

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Is it faster than a 997S? Yes.
    Is it quicker than a 997S? Yes.



    Jim - Feel free to substitute GT3 or 996TT here too...



    In spite of conflicting performance and lap time figures from "dubious" sources (not "official" GM claims?), lack of information on "state of tune" of the Nürburgring car, etc., the Z06 wíll obviously offer a lot of bang for the buck in terms of straight-line performance.

    However, as anyone who has been to a good firework display will tell you, it takes a lot more than just big bangs to turn it into a good show.

    Re: Z06 in Autocar

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:

    Claiming the lap time spread between a C5 Z06 and a C6 Z06 between their base models should be the same ignores the
    differences in their construction and design.



    I agree, this would not make much sense - and that is why I did not do it

    In fact the time difference of 16 seconds stems from the Autoweek article mentioned in one of the posts above. There they mention that a C06 with X51 performance kit (as also tested by sportauto) is 16 seconds slower on the NBR than the new Z06...

     
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