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    Is it possible to make a 997 Turbo sound as good as a 997 C4S w/PSE??

    Hello everyone...

    Long time lurker and first time poster here.

    Anyway, I had a small question to ask...

    I previously owned a 997 Carrera 4S with the PSE and I thought that the car sounded perfect in sport mode. In fact, I drove it sport mode all of the time just for the exhaust. It was loud enough to be entertaining but it was never obnoxious on long trips (it didn't resonate).

    After selling the C4S and having gone through some very interesting cars over the last couple of years, I have come to miss the 911's perfect mix between driving pleasure and usability and therefore decided to get another one.

    Moral of the story: I test drove a 997.1 Turbo (manual) and loved it...except for the exhaust...which was reminiscent of a..hmmm...hand-drier Smiley

    Now, my question to you guys is: is it possible do make a 997 TT sound anything like a C4S with the PSE? What exhaust would you suggest? I don't want anything too loud as the car will be my DD (20-30K miles per year). What comes closest to the PSE? 

    I just don't understand why Porsche didn't offer a PSE for the Turbo?

    Thanks in advance for any input.

     

     


    Re: Is it possible to make a 997 Turbo sound as good as a 997 C4S w/PSE??

    You can make it sound good but no the same I'm afraid. I would suggest Cargraphic, they have a lot of experience and offer a good quality. Not cheap though.

    The lack of PSE for the Turbo has to do with...the turbos. Apparently they solved the problem with the Panamera Turbo but it may take some time until it is available for the 997 Turbo FL too...if ever.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M (03/2010), BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Is it possible to make a 997 Turbo sound as good as a 997 C4S w/PSE??

    Thanks for the reply. I've heard good things about Cargraphic before.

    Unfortunately (for my wallet), I test drove a perfectly kept, high-mileage 599 (don't care about mileage as I want to drive it daily) and I'm now in love. The exhaust note is intoxicating...and the power...and the gearbox...and the looks...

    Decisions, decisions...


    Re: Is it possible to make a 997 Turbo sound as good as a 997 C4S w/PSE??

    I had a Cargraphic exhaust on my 997.1 Turbo. On idle and low revs the sound is not far from the Carrera PSE. On full throttle, when the turbos spool up, it sounds like a jet 


    --

    987 Boxster S, Arctic Silver with 'Martini Racing' Livery, H&R Monotube Coil-Overs, H&R Anti Roll Bars, Strut Brace, FVD ECU, BMC Air Filter, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, Recaro Racing Shells, PSE.

    997 Carrera 4S, Guards Red, Bilstein PSS10 Damptronic, H&R Anti Roll Bars, IPD Plenum, Dension Gateway 500, PSE.


    Re: Is it possible to make a 997 Turbo sound as good as a 997 C4S w/PSE??

    In case the 599 plan doesn't go through...
    I have not heard 997 PSE but have heard a number of different 997 Turbo after-market exhausts, and I agree with RC that none of these sounds the same as a Porsche NA engine. Not the same does NOT mean not as good however.

    To my ears, the "classic" 997 NA sound is this: A low frequency "wet" bubbling at idle; this bubbling yields to a mid range crackling/staccato on throttle, that climbs in frequency as rpm climbs.
    How does my Turbo Loud-Version Cargraphic differ from this? At low frequency:  the bubbling is replaced by a gutteral rumbling that is lower in frequency and ironically mimics American V8, on throttle the crackling/staccato is there, but more meaty (lower in frequency), not the same but at least as spectacular, and then at 6000 rpm or so onward, the sound becomes a deafening mechanical screams that, yes, I've been told also, sounds like a jet plane fly-by if you are following the car and I am shifting at red line.

    The Cargraphic exhaust inexplicably and unexpectedly has become one of the things I enjoy **MOST** about my car. Really quite a statement since I am a difficult person (some say crazy; my main source of music is still a turntable and tube preamp) when it comes to sound. If you end up with a Turbo, this audition is simply a must. Sometimes when I don't feel cheery, I just take my car through a few tunnels with windows down to be rejuvenated. It's my Freudian couch. Smiley (The sound proofing is so good ("too good") that to really hear any 997 exhaust in all of its glory, I think you need to be outside the car, or if driving, take it through a tunnel.) 

    And yes you are correct, the stock Turbo sounds like either a loud Lexus or a quiet hairdryer,  because a. it is too quiet, and b. it is continuous in nature (none of the classic staccato/crackling) when you are on throttle.

     


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Is it possible to make a 997 Turbo sound as good as a 997 C4S w/PSE??

    FWIW choosing PSE on my 997.1 was one of the best options I ever picked.  The 997.1 PSE sounds like a deep, rasping chainsaw when revved high.  This, of course, is on top of the 911's typical sewing machine on steroids/flatulence sound


    --

     
    RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: Is it possible to make a 997 Turbo sound as good as a 997 C4S w/PSE??

    easy_rider911:

    FWIW choosing PSE on my 997.1 was one of the best options I ever picked.  The 997.1 PSE sounds like a deep, rasping chainsaw when revved high.  This, of course, is on top of the 911's typical sewing machine on steroids/flatulence sound


    Can't figure out why anyone would NOT pick the PSE. It really is what the car is all about to begin with Smiley


    --

    Slow In, Fast Out


    Re: Is it possible to make a 997 Turbo sound as good as a 997 C4S w/PSE??

    Clearly sound matters. Recently I read that PAG has a department that tunes the sound (clearly they fell asleep during Turbo development, but I understand they have other market-driven issues to worry about).

    Interesting that sound is one of the few things, perhaps the only thing, that car enthusiasts consider important even though it serves no function. I mean I would have changed the exhaust for sound reason alone, even if back pressure reduction is not part of the equation, and I understand PSE doesn't have noticeable power increase (?).

    The low frequency component in all systems are important to my ears, as it gives a sense of power. In audiophile circles, we have a similar concept, mid-bass is considered by some to be the foundation of all "power" music.
     


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Is it possible to make a 997 Turbo sound as good as a 997 C4S w/PSE??

    I know its quite a difficult task by just seeing a single pic......but could anyone give me some feedback in what aftermarket exhaust this turbo has ?.....not even the porsche dealer knows about it.....

    I know it sounds really deep when the engine starts , it sounds louder than PSE, much louder, and has a very explosive sound, and indeed it sounds like a jet when you push it, in tunnels its just a circus !!!!

    Could it be Cargraphic ?, I remember they looked really thin the exhaust tips, and they even changed to multiple colours outside the exhaust tips (like petrol colour ), I know its nearly impossible by just seeing one picture, but any contribution is welcomed !!!!!

    The picture is taken from the dealership webpage of porsche approved cars they have in stock, I tried to maximize it a little bit.....any clues ????

    WP0ZZZ99Z7S788982_2.jpg


    --


    Re: Is it possible to make a 997 Turbo sound as good as a 997 C4S w/PSE??

    Also when you pressed sport button the exhaust valves opened even more, like I said, ridiculous sound inside tunnels


    --


    Re: Is it possible to make a 997 Turbo sound as good as a 997 C4S w/PSE??

    Alex, without a picture from underneath, impossible to tell. My best guess:

    If it's a European car with European exhaust, most likely Cargraphic/Miltek or Europipe. Recently, FVD came out with a system as well, and it has tips like that also. (Miltek appears to source their exhaust from Cargraphic, or vice versa.)

    If it's a US car, then the double round tips mean it could be Cargraphic, FVD, AWE, Fabspeed, or GMG. The fact that it's so explosive and loud and the thin tip make me think it's Cargraphic, FVD, or GMG (really really loud), and NOT Tubi. And, Cargraphic has tip with chrome like finish that I expect to have the multi-hue/rainbow color change as you describe.

    BTW, the "Sport" function button does NOT make the sound that much louder in the Turbo.

     

     


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Is it possible to make a 997 Turbo sound as good as a 997 C4S w/PSE??

    Alex,

    that could be sourced from about any exhaust manufacturer out there. 9ff also offers one that fits your description but I am not sure how many of those systems are effected by the sport-button.

    Are you getting bored of your SLK? Smiley


    Re: Is it possible to make a 997 Turbo sound as good as a 997 C4S w/PSE??

    @Cannga, thanks a lot for the input, I forgot to say the car is here in Europe (Madrid, Spain).....the owner was German, if that can help you ......Will try today to have a look from underneath (and even take a pic), as most of the porsche approved cars they have are parked outside so people can see them.....

    @Dirk, thanks for the input too, I know that by just uploading a pic its nearly impossible, but the sound was just like starting a rocket

    The SLK is just perfect, very happy with it !!!!Which reminds me a never posted a pic in rennteam..........this turbo would be for my father if we finally decide to sell the carrera 4 pdk to a friend, by end of next week will know what happens.....gonna send you a pm now


    --


    Re: Is it possible to make a 997 Turbo sound as good as a 997 C4S w/PSE??

    That really narrows down the list as I think it's extremely unlikely a German owner will use an American system. Not even allowed in Germany without TUV certification right?

    BTW, maybe owner posts here? He must be some enthusiast to use after-market exhaust and isn't rennteam the most popular web site for Porsche nuts in Europe?

    I am not as familiar with the exhausts available in Europe, but if you are serious enough to take pictures, make sure to take plenty of pictures of the central area (the 2 large mufflers between the tips and how they connect to each other at the very middle part), the area on the side right behind the tip, and the tip head on and close-ups. Then we could all play Sherlock.


    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Is it possible to make a 997 Turbo sound as good as a 997 C4S w/PSE??

    I have that system (pse) in my car based on GT2 titanium exhaust with 100 cell cats. Some data for all owners here based on dyno charts; Cargraphic 200cell cat - around 350mbar backpressure GT2 with 200 cell cats - around 250-300 +10hp from above GT2 with 100 cell cats - around 200mbar +10hp from above GT2 with 100 cell cats with electronic throttle flaps (PSE button) + 20hp from above and

    Re: Is it possible to make a 997 Turbo sound as good as a 997 C4S w/PSE??

    I have that system (pse) in my car based on GT2 titanium exhaust with 100 cell cats. Some data for all owners here based on dyno charts; Cargraphic 200cell cat - around 350mbar backpressure GT2 with 200 cell cats - around 250-300 +10hp from above GT2 with 100 cell cats - around 200mbar +10hp from above GT2 with 100 cell cats with electronic throttle flaps (PSE button) + 20hp from above and

    Re: Is it possible to make a 997 Turbo sound as good as a 997 C4S w/PSE??

    Alex18_996CC:

    I know its quite a difficult task by just seeing a single pic......but could anyone give me some feedback in what aftermarket exhaust this turbo has ?.....not even the porsche dealer knows about it.....

    I know it sounds really deep when the engine starts , it sounds louder than PSE, much louder, and has a very explosive sound, and indeed it sounds like a jet when you push it, in tunnels its just a circus !!!!

    WP0ZZZ99Z7S788982_2.jpg

     The end-pipes you see are just that:  The last 25 to 30 cm of the exhaust system.
    They do not even have to be from the same manufacturer as the mufflers, so knowing who made the end-pipes would not necessarily tell you who made the mufflers. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: Is it possible to make a 997 Turbo sound as good as a 997 C4S w/PSE??

    ok guys, so I did a little visit to the dealer, I'm really sorry, didn't brought my digital camera, but shoot some pics with my blackberry......

    I literally stood underneath and didn't saw a thing, maybe if I was lucky enough would see the badge in the mufflers or something, but there was nothing (I think)....so I took this pics, hope they are useful......

    The car only has 8.400kms, so its like new, interior is just like from factory....and like I said the owner is Germany, and by what the dealer has told me he has bought 911 turbo PDK (which today I saw my first cobalt blue 997 turbo pdk in the dealer for real, it looks amazing)

    Anyways, hope this helps a little bit .............IMG00026-20100131-2119.jpgIMG00027-20100131-2119.jpgIMG00028-20100131-2119.jpgIMG00031-20100131-2119.jpgIMG00032-20100131-2120.jpgIMG00033-20100131-2120.jpg1264978878680IMG00033-20100131-2120.jpgIMG00034-20100131-2120.jpgIMG00035-20100131-2120.jpgIMG00036-20100131-2120.jpg


    --


    Re: Is it possible to make a 997 Turbo sound as good as a 997 C4S w/PSE??

    Completing the previous post (my bberry decided to cut it in half..)

    I have that system (pse) in my car based on the GT2 titanium exhaust with 100 cell cats. Some data for all owners here based on dyno charts;
    - Cargraphic stage 1 with 200cell cat - around 350mbar backpressure
    - GT2 with 200 cell cats - around 250-300mbar (+10hp from above)
    - GT2 with 100 cell cats - around 200mbar (+10hp from above)
    - GT2 with 100 cell cats with electronic throttle flaps (PSE button) + 20hp from above and <50mbar (!!).

    (all the power differences were after adapting the software and are estimates as some times other parts were changed as well.)

    Turbo lag noticeably better with the flaps open. Car is 740hp with mod vtgs/rods/cams/ Cylinder heads etc. 100-200 around 5.4 seconds (from 3rd gear).

    Have pics of the system if anyone is interested. The sound is quite loud (as you can imagine) and at idle its too much like a racecar imo. I thus opted for the flaps to open at certain rev/load situations. Of course in the city i have the flaps closed and it sounds a bit louder than a GT2. The pse button is on the console next to the sport button and is retrofitted from original porsche part from the carrera PSE so it looks like stock.

    Another note is that I had the cargraphic stage 1 and it was too loud for me (resonance) at low rpm. The GT2 box with 200 cell cats for me was a much better proposition as the sound was better, made more power and was -15kgs as well. Not to mention build quality..
    Sorry to disagree with a lot of people here but CG imo is good but far from the best out there.

     


    Re: Is it possible to make a 997 Turbo sound as good as a 997 C4S w/PSE??

    Alex, I still don't know what that exhaust system is, but I think (not sure) I know what it is not:

    1. Not Cargraphic, which has huge tubing coming into the muffler. Biggest that I've seen.
    2. Not Europipe.
    3. Shape of muffler looks like Tubi. But Tubi is one piece system and this one has clamps. Tubi picture here.
    4. Shape of muffler looks like FVD. But not quite so since FVD clamps are very close to the muffler and not far off like this. FVD picture here.

    Anyway, good luck. I think the people buying Mezger Turbo are very smart. The car has taken huge hit because of the economy and you end up with a tremendous discount  for possibly the best Turbo ever. Ok.. take that back, the Turbo with the best DNA ever.


    --
     

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Is it possible to make a 997 Turbo sound as good as a 997 C4S w/PSE??

    GT, does your car have an EVOMS ECU tune?

    If you recall my postings, the major reason I got rid of my EVOMS tune was that it caused unbearable noise and resonance in my car. Even at idle, the sound was intolerable and I had headaches after every drive. I believe EVOMS is ok with other exhaust systems but has a particularly nasty interaction with Cargraphic and Miltek. At least, it did in my car and a convertible I listened to. So the cause of the bad noise in your car may not be the Cargraphic at all. Why do I think I am right? Look around and see the number of HAPPY people with Cargraphic.  

    Lastly, I've also found that not only an ECU tune, but solid links in the suspension system might increase noise transmission from the engine bay, including exhaust noise, as well. Your car has a number of these mods so I am not sure one could easily pin the cause of the noise on one component. 


    --
     

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )


    Re: Is it possible to make a 997 Turbo sound as good as a 997 C4S w/PSE??

    Hi Caanga, no when I had the CG there were no changed suspension components apart from damptronics and sway bars. The CG had a nice/loud aggressive sound in the high rpm but the drone in the 2.5-3k that was quite annoying. My car had modified vtgs and ICs so don't know if that made a difference. Actually I spoke to CG about it and they sold me another custom made set of silencers to fix the problem but while the overall level of noise was reduced, the drone was still there. The GT2 titanium box was overall more quiet and reduced drone by 50%. The noise in the high rpm was noticeably different, can't really describe it, but I personally liked it. The important thing though was that the backpressure was less and thus made a bit more power, while the -15kgs were immediately felt in the back. Overwheliming proposition in my opinion since it is also a porsche part (made by akrapovich). Now regarding the power gains I state, these would obviously be felt only in cars that can benefit from lower backpressure, ie stage 2/3+ mainly. Overall the exhaust choice is a very personal decision as defferent people need/like different things. I just wanted to give some more observations from my (extensive) trials. The CG is a good enough system but for me the GT2 box was better. The electronic throttle flaps (pse) are a nice gimmick and make the car sound like a racing car. Its a cool gadget and makes power/torque, albeit a bit expensive.

    Re: Is it possible to make a 997 Turbo sound as good as a 997 C4S w/PSE??

    Also the software was custom made on dyno by sportec. Not evoms.

    Re: Is it possible to make a 997 Turbo sound as good as a 997 C4S w/PSE??

     THIS will make the turbocharger -strangled 911 Turbo sound better than ANY aftermarket exhaust  and I'm being very serious ! Best $50 spent in all autodom. I know several  Prius owners locally with one !

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9XAC-BvUyo

     

    I'd get the V10 version :

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1KbX3eFPlg&feature=related

     

    I had posted several years ago that with the coming electric cars ( and their underwhelming golf-cart sounds ) , manufacturers of higher end sporty ones would  offer OEM selectable exhaust sounds through either the sound system or dedicated hidden speakers - that day is not far off. Environmentally PC also, as the outside world hears nothing  and you would be labeled a supernerd if your windows were rolled down. Your future Audi E-tron may  sound like a shrieky 355 V8 Ferrari  on the way to work and a rumbling V10 Viper on the way home !

     

    Smiley

     

     

     


    Re: Is it possible to make a 997 Turbo sound as good as a 997 C4S w/PSE??

    That system is neither a tubi or a fvd, it could be an earlier fvd but the cats/pipes don't look right.


    --

    Chris '07 997 TT Midnight on Sea

    Farnbacher-Loles prepped!


    Re: Is it possible to make a 997 Turbo sound as good as a 997 C4S w/PSE??

    Under further review, it is an aerly generation speed art exhaust imo.

    GT, I understand akropovik (sp) now makes a 997tt exhaust with quad tips, looks really nice.


    --
     

    Chris '07 997 TT Midnight on Sea

    Farnbacher-Loles prepped!


     
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