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    Jun 7, 2006 4:30:48 PM

    SciFrog Offline
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    Reply to: SoCal Alan

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    So, are all of you pleased with performance? Well, I am and as RC said TIP is only little bit faster(you will see in few issues of AMS-they already measured it!). And when I said little bit-I mean little bit(just 0.1s in 0-200km/h )!



    So, if we were to assume that overboost was used on both cars...

    The manual 997TT w/ SC did 12.3 (12.8)
    The tip 997TT w/ SC did 12.2 (12.2)

    Numbers in parenthesis are official Porsche times. Do we know for a fact if the official Porsche times also enabled overboost?



    12.8 (manual) and 12.2 (tip) are assumed without SC from Porsche.

    So what RC meant was the test showed a 0.5 improvement with SC for the manual over Porsche number (without SC).

    For the tip with SC, we can then assume a 0.4-5 improvement over 12.2, ie 11.7-8 because of SC...

    KresoF1, 12.1 for tip test, that's without SC no? If this is with SC, it is very dissapointing, enough for not getting the tip.

    Jun 7, 2006 4:53:12 PM

    Turbo
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    Reply to: Mike2

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    Mike2 said:



    Braking (with PCCB):
    100-0--cold/unloaded--34m
    100-0--cold/loaded----36m
    100-0--warm/loaded----35m
    190-0-----------------123m





    I d'ont thtink the AMS Test car has PCCB, Base Price is Euro 133.603,-- car as tested Euro 140.702,-- (PCCB Price is Euro 8.491,--)?? But on the photo it looks like PCCB, big mistery...

    Jun 7, 2006 6:04:57 PM

    turbolite
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    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    not a mistery at all, the test expressly states that the car tested has PCCB...

    Jun 7, 2006 6:19:41 PM

    Super DariusM
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    Reply to: turbolite

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    WOW,the 997 TT is a rocket,can't wait to have it!!!

    Jun 7, 2006 7:17:37 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: SciFrog

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Just one thing-SC is NOT improving acceleration from 0-100km/h or 0-200km/h, just in-gear acceleration(80-120km/h or else...). Reason? According to my friend from P. you are using all the power(and revs) during sprints(0-200km/h), so overboost is not the issue there... Makes sense to me. But, if you are driving 140km/h in fourth gear for example and floor it car with SC will accelerate faster then one without it!

    Jun 7, 2006 8:51:57 PM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: EricAlain

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    EricAlain said:

    Top speed on the 997 TT is "electronically" limited to 310km/h to fit tyre rating.



    Top speed is only limited by the gearing... (improves acceleration figures)

    Jun 7, 2006 8:56:59 PM

    trip
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Wouldn't the significant extra torque, and horsepower (not peak, just increased in rev range affected by sc) contribute to quicker times?

    Jun 7, 2006 8:59:21 PM

    RCA
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Top speed is only limited by the gearing... (improves acceleration figures)



    This is one thing I still wasn't able to figure out. There have been claims of an "artificial" 310 kph speed limit due to tire issues and this rumors still persists. I always forgot to ask when I had the chance, stupid me...

    Jun 7, 2006 9:00:22 PM

    RCA
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    Reply to: zzbobaA

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    zzboba said:
    Well, at least the doped press rocket cars are



    Well...lucky me I guess.

    Jun 7, 2006 9:05:40 PM

    trip
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    RC do you think Porsche would follow MB's lead in releasing extra powerful cars to the press? I wouldn't think that Porsche would stoop to this level. Also, did you get my email about my Avatar. Thanks for offering to help.

    Jun 7, 2006 9:09:50 PM

    RCA
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    As RC said test is little bit short but, very good one!
    So, are all of you pleased with performance? Well, I am and as RC said TIP is only little bit faster(you will see in few issues of AMS-they already measured it!). And when I said little bit-I mean little bit(just 0.1s in 0-



    As a comparison "hint": from aprox. 80 kph up to 200 kph, almost a car length advantage for the Tip. Of course considering that the manual driver was a pro shifter and it can't also be excluded that the manual OR the Tip had more power (it is difficult to compare it that way). One car had rumored 7000 km and the other rumored 9000 on the speedo. May be one car length and a half with not so talented shifter. Of course this is just a rumor.

    Jun 7, 2006 9:16:12 PM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Top speed is only limited by the gearing... (improves acceleration figures)



    This is one thing I still wasn't able to figure out. There have been claims of an "artificial" 310 kph speed limit due to tire issues and this rumors still persists. I always forgot to ask when I had the chance, stupid me...



    They also published a speed/rev/gear chart in the AMS article. Max revs in 6th gear result in ca. 310kph.

    Jun 7, 2006 9:21:08 PM

    Crash
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Top speed is only limited by the gearing... (improves acceleration figures)



    This is one thing I still wasn't able to figure out. There have been claims of an "artificial" 310 kph speed limit due to tire issues and this rumors still persists. I always forgot to ask when I had the chance, stupid me...



    They also published a speed/rev/gear chart in the AMS article. Max revs in 6th gear result in ca. 310kph.



    So I guess it is safe to say that you will not be selling your X50 any time soon, at least not until the GT2/X50 comes out. I personally think the car is as fast as anything out there, but I wonder how it compares against the M6 and the new SL55 above 200 km/h.

    Jun 7, 2006 9:21:25 PM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Top speed is only limited by the gearing... (improves acceleration figures)



    This is one thing I still wasn't able to figure out. There have been claims of an "artificial" 310 kph speed limit due to tire issues and this rumors still persists. I always forgot to ask when I had the chance, stupid me...



    They also published a speed/rev/gear chart in the AMS article. Max revs in 6th gear result in ca. 310kph.



    Seems to accurate. 310 kph seems too slow for a 480 hp Porsche 997...

    Jun 7, 2006 9:25:52 PM

    svtrader1
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Top speed is only limited by the gearing... (improves acceleration figures)



    This is one thing I still wasn't able to figure out. There have been claims of an "artificial" 310 kph speed limit due to tire issues and this rumors still persists. I always forgot to ask when I had the chance, stupid me...



    They also published a speed/rev/gear chart in the AMS article. Max revs in 6th gear result in ca. 310kph.



    Seems to accurate. 310 kph seems too slow for a 480 hp Porsche 997...



    Yup, especially with a very slippery drag coefficient of only .31.

    Jun 7, 2006 9:27:12 PM

    RCA
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Not sure about the gearing. I really have to look into it, I find it pretty strange that ALL four models, Turbo/Turbo Tip, GT3/GT3 RS have a Vmax of 310 kph. I hope I don't forget to ask next time, I actually wanted to ask WR during our GT3 testing but of course...I forgot.

    Jun 7, 2006 9:27:13 PM

    trip
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    Reply to: svtrader1

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Exactly, but perhaps porsche put the limiter in place to protect its less talented customers. The 997tt has less downforce than the f430 so maybe it is not as stable as Porsche is comfortable with above 310?

    Jun 7, 2006 9:34:43 PM

    JimFlat6
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    Reply to: trip

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    The V max limiter is likely there to compliment the v max rating of available hi speed winter tires.



    Jun 7, 2006 9:39:54 PM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: trip

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    trip said:
    Exactly, but perhaps porsche put the limiter in place to protect its less talented customers. The 997tt has less downforce than the f430 so maybe it is not as stable as Porsche is comfortable with above 310?



    Do you really think a less talented customer has any benefit if the his car is "only" capable of 310 kph?

    Jun 7, 2006 9:46:48 PM

    JimFlat6
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Rossi you are very funny!

    That avatar makes the Ferrari prancing horse look very funny also!

    Jun 7, 2006 9:53:04 PM

    svtrader1
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Or maybe it's just another marketing ploy. When Turbo sales start to taper off, Porsche, will introduce power kit/ turbo S and will hit the magical 200mph barrier. Bada bing Bada boom!

    Jun 7, 2006 9:55:41 PM

    trip
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    trip said:
    Exactly, but perhaps porsche put the limiter in place to protect its less talented customers. The 997tt has less downforce than the f430 so maybe it is not as stable as Porsche is comfortable with above 310?



    Do you really think a less talented customer has any benefit if the his car is "only" capable of 310 kph?


    As I was saying, If the car doesn't have enough downforce to remain suitably stable above 310, Porsche may not feel comfortable allowing for true Vmax because less capable customers may be likely to make a serious error. I am just speculating.

    Jun 7, 2006 10:17:02 PM

    GT Offline
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Just one thing-SC is NOT improving acceleration from 0-100km/h or 0-200km/h, just in-gear acceleration(80-120km/h or else...). Reason? According to my friend from P. you are using all the power(and revs) during sprints(0-200km/h), so overboost is not the issue there... Makes sense to me. But, if you are driving 140km/h in fourth gear for example and floor it car with SC will accelerate faster then one without it!


    Exactly! Everybody with a tuned 996 with overboost would know that.. Overboost is until about 4.5k rpm and thus on accelerations from standstill it does not come into play since after every gearchange engine goes above the overboost threshold..
    Was waiting for somebody to point that out at last!

    I am afraid no 11.5s for tip with or without SC RC..

    Jun 7, 2006 10:21:41 PM

    trip
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    Reply to: GT

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    That is kind of disapointing. Hopefully tuners will make overboost last into higher RPM ranges.

    Jun 7, 2006 10:35:01 PM

    Crash
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    Reply to: trip

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    trip said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    trip said:
    Exactly, but perhaps porsche put the limiter in place to protect its less talented customers. The 997tt has less downforce than the f430 so maybe it is not as stable as Porsche is comfortable with above 310?



    Do you really think a less talented customer has any benefit if the his car is "only" capable of 310 kph?


    As I was saying, If the car doesn't have enough downforce to remain suitably stable above 310, Porsche may not feel comfortable allowing for true Vmax because less capable customers may be likely to make a serious error. I am just speculating.



    Why would the Turbo have less downforce than the 430? Also, being around 100 kilos heavier, it would also need less downforce.

    Jun 7, 2006 10:41:07 PM

    trip
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    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    The 430 has a full length undertray complete with venturi tunnels. Nberry (I know, not the most reliable source) posted a graph showing that the 430 had something like 600+ lbs of downforce. Now I think that is probably exagerated and I admit I don't know the official figure but my bet is it has more downforce. You're right, the turbo is heavier so it would need less. I would be curious to see official numbers and see which has the downforce advantage.

    Jun 7, 2006 10:52:29 PM

    Tony007
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    Reply to: trip

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    trip said:
    That is kind of disapointing. Hopefully tuners will make overboost last into higher RPM ranges.



    They will..

    Jun 7, 2006 10:55:02 PM

    MKW
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    Reply to: trip

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    trip said:
    The 430 has a full length undertray complete with venturi tunnels. Nberry (I know, not the most reliable source) posted a graph showing that the 430 had something like 600+ lbs of downforce. Now I think that is probably exagerated and I admit I don't know the official figure but my bet is it has more downforce. You're right, the turbo is heavier so it would need less. I would be curious to see official numbers and see which has the downforce advantage.



    Too much down force reduces high speed acceleration . That net down force of 600 lbs is like the F430 weighing 4000+ lbs at very high speed but more " stable "from an aero standpoint.Note the 997 Turbo's " TechArt "- like wing develops more downforce vs the smaller 996 Turbo's wing as another example. Everything is a compromise - accelerate to the same top speed slower and steady or quicker with potential veering way out of your lane at the slightest crosswind. Each manufacturer has to engineer to its own targeted sweet spot.

    Jun 7, 2006 11:04:41 PM

    WBH
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    Reply to: MKW

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Quote:
    MKW said:
    Quote:
    trip said:
    The 430 has a full length undertray complete with venturi tunnels. Nberry (I know, not the most reliable source) posted a graph showing that the 430 had something like 600+ lbs of downforce. Now I think that is probably exagerated and I admit I don't know the official figure but my bet is it has more downforce. You're right, the turbo is heavier so it would need less. I would be curious to see official numbers and see which has the downforce advantage.



    Too much down force reduces high speed acceleration . That net down force of 600 lbs is like the F430 weighing 4000+ lbs at very high speed but more " stable "from an aero standpoint.Note the 997 Turbo's " TechArt "- like wing develops more downforce vs the smaller 996 Turbo's wing as another example. Everything is a compromise - accelerate to the same top speed slower and steady or quicker with potential veering way out of your lane at the slightest crosswind.



    Exactly...

    Any of our German pals w/first-hand expce re: stability of 430 and 996TTS at 170+MPH cruise???

    Recall a recent Brit mag doing top-speed testing of various cars on track and claiming that 997S @?172MPH was scarily unstable....is that mag b.s.?....or is it part of the trade-off w/lighter sportscars that excel in twisties rather than 170+MPH cruising stability???

    Jun 7, 2006 11:05:39 PM

    trip
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    Reply to: MKW

    Re: Test Auto Motor Sport 997 Turbo

    Yeah MKW, I know that, I am just wondering which car actually has greater downforce including the vehicles own weight.
     
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