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    Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2005

    235/40 R18 91V M+S (front)
    265/40 R18 97V M+S (rear)
    Continental Winter Contact TS 810 N0
    This combo is recommended for snow and dry/wet pavement.

    235/35 R19 87V M+S (front)
    295/30 R19 100V XL M+S (rear)
    Continental Winter Contact TS 810 N0
    This combo is recommended for dry/wet pavement.

    235/35 R19 87V M+S (front)
    295/30 R19 100V SL M+S (rear)
    Pirelli Winter 240 SnowSport N0
    This combo is recommended for snow and dry/wet pavement.

    Recommended tire pressure:
    18'': 2.5 bar (front) and 3.0 bar (rear)
    19'': 2.5 bar (front) and 3.0 bar (rear)
    These are the recommended tire pressures for a fully loaded car but we recommend them anyway for a less loaded car too because the standard recommended tire pressure refers to a car loaded to two persons without luggage only.

    It is not approved and very likely not possible to mount snow chains on the 19'' wheels!!!

    Approved rims:
    18'' Carrera III rim
    19'' Carrera S rim
    19'' Sport Design rim
    19'' Carrera Classic rim

    Porsche offers snow chains which are fully compatible to the 18'' wheel combos, part nunber is: 997.044.600.07.
    The Porsche snow chain is approved for the rear tires (265s) only. Max. speed with snow chains: 50 kph (30 mph).

    We do not recommend "swapping" of tires (exchanging summer tires with winter tires and back again on the same rim) due to possible damage in the mounting/de-mounting process, damage which might not be visible.

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2005

    Evidently neither tire is or will be available in the USA, according Tire Rack. Only the Continental TS 790 and the Pirelli Sotto Zero, in these sizes. Both are new V rated tires, not yet available.

    Maybe Porsche dealers will have them, but I assume the cost will be much higher.

    Paul

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    RC, do you think, those of us receiving their 997 during winter might have winter tires fitted on them already, especially customers in Canada?

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    * Porsche recommends standard rear width (295 for the S) snow tires.
    * BMW recommends going narrower (235/235 versus 245/285 standard front/rear) for my M5.
    * Tire Rack reps recommend going narrower as a rule of thumb, but haven't posted thier 997 recommendations yet).
    * My Porsche dealer recommends going narrower on the 997!

    I posted this question on another thread and only Fritz responded, suggesting that the greater rear weight distribution of a 911 was the reason, and I'm sure Fritz knows his stuff, but now even my Porsche dealer (OK, the salesman!) is suggesting otherwise and I'm thoroughly confused!

    I certainly like the idea of standard tire size from an aesthetic point of view but also want to survive the winter in one piece along with my new 997 S!

    Does anyone have an explanation for the mixed message I'm getting? I'm new to Porsche. What do you have on your 996 cars? Standard or narrow width snow tires in the rear?

    Paul

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    Quote:
    997C2S said:
    RC, do you think, those of us receiving their 997 during winter might have winter tires fitted on them already, especially customers in Canada?



    All Porsche cars are delivered from the factory with "standard" (= summer) tires, regardless of the time of year when they are built.

    Just like any brand of car, in fact.

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    Quote:
    pnoble said:
    I posted this question on another thread and only Fritz responded, suggesting that the greater rear weight distribution of a 911 was the reason, and I'm sure Fritz knows his stuff, but now even my Porsche dealer (OK, the salesman!) is suggesting otherwise and I'm thoroughly confused!




    I didn't suggest it, I implied it. Minor difference, but I have not personally carried out traction or directional stability tests on snow with a 997. Therefore I am inclined to rely on Porsche's "official" approvals for winter tires, because - in my view - they are the best source of information available to us as Porsche drivers.

    What does your salesman say as to why Porsche would include wider-tread tires in list of recommended dimensions, against his superior knowledge? Did he even know what Porsche recommends?

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    Fritz,

    Sorry if I misinterpreted your comments, but for sure this is Porsche's own position and your explanation for why seems perfectly rational.

    As said, it was the salesman not the service department that suggested narrow tires and, no, he didn't have Porsche's recommendations in hand. I e-mailed RC's post to him after our conversation.

    My only aim here is to ensure that I have a good and appropriate set of snow tires for the winter since I will take delivery of the car in November.

    It has been my experience in the past that the more exotic snow tire types ans sizes tend to sell out quickly: e.g. 295/35 19"!

    Paul

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    Quote:
    pnoble said:
    Fritz,
    Sorry if I misinterpreted your comments, but for sure this is Porsche's own position and your explanation for why seems perfectly rational.




    No need to be sorry. I wasn't trying to be awkward in any way. I just wanted to stress that my view was based on conjecture, and not on firm knowledge. May not have come across the way I meant it.

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    Living in Florida, we have to put up with huricanes for a couple of months every few years, but I am sure glad we don't have to worry about snow tires!!

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    Quote:
    dan996 said:
    Living in Florida, we have to put up with huricanes for a couple of months every few years, but I am sure glad we don't have to worry about snow tires!!



    This is why Florida is our favorite family vacation spot, especially in the february/march semi-winter months when it is still cold in Germany.

    We escaped "Andrew" many years ago, we left Miami for Orlando just in time, the winds very already blowing pretty strong and the Hotel started to move guests to a nearby school hall. We returned to Miami one day after the water distribution was turned on again in our Hotel. Lucky us. I even bought a T-shirt "I survived Hurrican Andrew" but I never really realized how dangerous a hurricane can be.

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    For those still undecided, Porsche's recommendations for winter tires have been published in German edition of "Christophorus" for October/November. I would guess that they are now generally available to all dealers in the relevant markets.

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    Quote:
    RC said:
    ..This is why Florida is our favorite family vacation spot, especially in the february/march semi-winter months when it is still cold in Germany. ...



    RC, why Florida? Southern California is always warmer than Florida in the winter time. We never get those freezes that Florida always seems to get. Plus, if you come to Los Angeles on January 1, almost always guaranteed to be sunny and in the upper 70s low 80s. Plus you get the original family attractions instead of the copies they have in Florida.

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    Quote:
    vtrader said:
    ...why Florida? Southern California is always warmer than Florida in the winter time...



    I find more and more reasons to make a nice trip to California...

    Back to the tire recommendations:

    if you are driving in extremely snowy conditions the 265mm rear tires are by far the better choice. On the other hand, do they fit on the S-model (due to brakedisc size)?
    Since Porsche has only three 19" wheels in same size available choices of tire width are rather narrowed down.

    Tire rack is absolutely right that a narrower tire is better on snowy and icy conditions and - to a certain extend - even on rainy surfaces.
    Since you won't drive on snowy surfaces half of the year you should be able to live with the above recommendations though. Handling on the S will definately be improved by wider tires, especially since winter tires are less sticky beyond 7 Degrees Celsius.

    RC, do you put winter tyres on your 997 or do you rely on your snow-plow TT during those months?

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    Anyone find the proper winter tires in the US yet??

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    Quote:
    vtrader said:
    RC, why Florida? Southern California is always warmer than Florida in the winter time. We never get those freezes that Florida always seems to get. Plus, if you come to Los Angeles on January 1, almost always guaranteed to be sunny and in the upper 70s low 80s. Plus you get the original family attractions instead of the copies they have in Florida.



    1. we love HEAT.
    2. how warm is the water temperature in march in California?
    3. Orlando is great fun for kids (and us adults too of course) and you don't have that rush hour craziness you have in the LA area.
    4. Florida has no earthquakes (we're fed up with earthquakes)
    5. we have our favorite beach hotel in Fort Lauderdale, unfortunately the beach hotels in California aren't that nice
    6. all entertainment attractions are pretty close one to each other

    We can't help it, we're in love with Florida.

    If we win the lottery and have enough money (let's say around 10-20 Million... ), we surely move immediately to Florida, bye bye Germany.

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    I heard that florida is really humid?

    I love california weather. We just got a few drops
    of rain yesterday. One bad thing about this
    state, is its really really expensive to
    live in these days.

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    Tire Rack will have available in November for the S:

    Pirelli Winter Sottozero XL in 235/35VR-19 and 295/30VR-19.

    This is evidently a brand new winter tire for high performance sports cars, designed to be used late Fall through early Spring. Not reviewed yet but Tire Rack was raving about it.

    I ordered a set: $1152 with shipping. They will fit on the standard wheels.

    PS: I had called Porsche Customer Service just yesterday and was given the Christophe info and when I told the rep the Conti 810 wasn't available in the USA and the Pirelli 240 not in 19", he had nothing to say and suggested I speak with my dealer, who in turn had no info either. God bless Tire Rack!

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    Quote:
    TopherV said:
    I heard that florida is really humid?

    I love california weather. We just got a few drops
    of rain yesterday. One bad thing about this
    state, is its really really expensive to
    live in these days.



    Would that be a result of having to pay to pump all your water up from Florida?

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    Quote:
    pnoble said:
    Tire Rack will have available in November for the S:

    Pirelli Winter Sottozero XL in 235/35VR-19 and 295/30VR-19.

    This is evidently a brand new winter tire for high performance sports cars, designed to be used late Fall through early Spring. Not reviewed yet but Tire Rack was raving about it.

    I ordered a set: $1152 with shipping. They will fit on the standard wheels.




    I heard that complete winter wheels sets will be available in time for ordering through Tequipment, even in the US.

    The tires you ordered from Tire Rack are not approved by Porsche, not tested by Porsche and a risk for driving safety. Due to it's special weight distribution because of the rear engine design, the 997 requires special tires which have been adapted specifically for this purpose.
    Even the winter tires carry N-designations.

    I know that especially in the US, people don't care too much about tires (which might have to do with the speed limit), maybe also because there is that "myth" which says that Porsche chooses the N-designated tires because of comfort and marketing reasons. This is not the case.

    And a last hint: Porsche does not recommend swapping tires in 18'' or even 19'' size. During the de-mounting process, invisible damage can occur to the tires, making them a safety risk.

    People buy a car for 100000 USD and want to save a few bucks on winter wheels. Human nature I guess...

    Be clever and buy yourself a seperate set of winter wheels and if you have snow and ice in your area, the 18'' winter tires are better than the wider ones in 19''.

    Some people also use aftermarket rims for mounting winter tires, this is another problem on a high performance car like the 997 Carrera/S. Rims sometimes slightly change their shape/size due to extreme heat or extreme cold.
    This is where the danger lies if the rim hasn't been specifically tested for your car. Imagine the inner spoke suddenly touching your brake caliper. Do you think this is a good thing?

    Again: the 911 is no VW Jetta or Saturn. It is a high performance car which due to it's specs needs specific parts and setups. Not following Porsche's recommendations for rims and tires could result in serious safety risks.
    I also heard that Porsche does not take any legal responsibility in case of an addicent or severe technical breakdown if non-approved wheels are used.

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    So 18" Wheels is working on both 997 and 997S?

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    RC,

    Facts are:

    * Porsche Germany is recommending two tires - neither of which are available in the USA (the Conti 810 not at all, the Pirelli 240 not in 19").

    * Porsche Germany is also recommending to use the same size and width for snows as standard. Not narrower or smaller (as seems a common view).

    * I have seen no confirmation as to whether 18" wheels are even an option on the S vis-a-vis brake clearance.

    * Porsche USA is not recommending anything.

    * Porsche USA Customer Support has no further information. Told me to speak to my dealer. specifically gave me the name of their service manager.

    * My dealer has no futher information. I have spoken with the Porsche dealer the service manager (per Porsche's suggestion)and the parts manager (at my salesman's suggestion). Nada. They suggested that I speak with Tire Rack - where they themselves (and I believe Porsche USA also) get their tires.

    * I spoke to Tire Rack, and the Pirelli Sottozeros where their strong suggestion. (If you go to their web site they do not list anything and ask one to call).


    * I get my car next week and snowfalls in December are not uncommon in this area.

    * Typically 'exotic' tire types and sizes sell out very quickly in the USA. 295/30 19" is exotic. I have been through this before.

    So all in all I think I am taking this matter more seriously than Porsche USA and I am frankly very surprised at just how unseriously they are taking things, since within a couple of months it could be lethal to drive a new Porsche off the dealer's lot without snow tires!

    If they are planning to offer a snow package in the USA they should bloody well inform their customers and or their dealers now. I would not hestitate to purchase whatever they recommend.

    PS: I specifically asked both the Tire Rack sales consultant and the service manager of Paul Miller Porsche yesterday if there was an issue re removing/replacing tires on the standard wheels (as I have heard to be the case)and I was told categorically NO by both.

    I don't profess to have a great deal of knowledge in this area and am trying to rely on the 'experts'. And I'm not getting very far!

    My sole goal is to survive the winter in one piece. Ditto my new $94,000 car! Saving money is not the issue, believe me.

    I appreciate your input, RC. and I can assure you that although it is impractical to drive at Autobahn speeds in the US, some of us, me included, drive as aggressively in terms of taking curves and maybe more so in maneuvering, since the average US driver is not disciplined like a German driver and one is typically forced to weave around traffic at highway speeds. So I'm very concerned to have the right equipment!

    My first post on this site was to ask about snow tires, and I'm more confused now than I was when I started!

    Paul

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    Quote:
    pnoble said:
    PS: I specifically asked both the Tire Rack sales consultant and the service manager of Paul Miller Porsche yesterday if there was an issue re removing/replacing tires on the standard wheels (as I have heard to be the case)and I was told categorically NO by both.




    Whereas a typical Porsche driver might get through summer tires fast enough for them "only" to need to be removed / refitted once during their "lifetime" to replace them with with winter tires, you could easily find your winter tires lasting 4 seasons, resulting in the beads of the tires needing to be stretched over the wheelrim a total of 7 times during their life.

    Since it is not unknown even for new tires to "creep" slightly on the rim circumference during use, implying that bead-to-rim air seal might also be compromised, I am very surprised that the people you spoke to saw no problems with swopping winter/summer tires around on the same rims. It certainly goes against Porsche's recommendations, and I know who I'd be more inclined to trust.

    Having said that, I agree however with your view that Porsche USA really needs to get its act together on this matter, and very quickly.

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    Paul,

    I went through the same problem with finding the latest Porsche Winter recommendations for the 996TT. TireRack did not have the latest recommended Pirelli SnowSport 240 N3 tires. My local Porsche dealer was clueless on what the recommendations were or on availability. I had heard excellent things about Wheel Enhancements. http://wheelenhancement.com/
    So I gave them a call and spoke to Dave. He was very knowledgeable of the recommendations and had the tires in stock. They obtain their wheels from Porsche. It's worth the call.

    Pete

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    Peter, I'll give them a call. Thank you.

    It shouldn't be this hard!

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    Fritz,

    I agree - or at least this is what I have heard myself in the past. I'm just repeating what I have been told!

    I am leasing for three years, so we are talking at least five times between on and off each and since I won't likely track the car, quite likely both sets will indeed last the three years.

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    I'm looking for an 18" wheel/winter tire combo. The Tire Rack actually has Blizzak LM25's with a 265/35/18 size. The Blizzak's are awesome winter tires. I had them on my E39 M5. I think the Blizzacks are also a XL load tire. It's close in size to the recommended 265/40/18 tires that PAG recommends.

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    Quote:
    sterio said:
    So 18" Wheels is working on both 997 and 997S?



    Yes, they are! They are listed in Tequipment:

    Germany, incl. recommended prices:
    http://www3.porsche.de/german/deu/home.htm

    GB:
    http://www3.uk.porsche.com/isapi/english/gbr/accessories/911_997teq/item.asp?id=341&kat=Wheels

    I am quite surprised that no more infos are available in the US - it's funny that Porsche gives out specifications and recommendations but doesn't provide info how to get them. Only reason can be that the 997 is brand new...


    RC,

    tire choices are not only important on Porsche vehicles but on EVERY car. No matter if you have a sophisticated or very rustic suspension the tires are the only connection to the street and are very, very important! I would not recommend to save on tires either!

    Of course it is more senseful to take the 18" wheels if you drive in severe conditions. On the other hand, if you do so only in certain conditions and rather have to live with low temperatures, a lot of moisture and the occasional ice and snow the 19" wheel set might fit your needs even better. Traction and handling on ice and snow won't be on par with the narrower wheels though!

    You don't run your brandnew Plasma-TV with a in-room antenna, do you?

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    Yeah it's amazing that the Porsche NA website doesn't have any of this info, including the 997 Tequipment catalog

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    As I recollect, it snowed in NY/NJ early last December. I can imagine just 6-7 weeks from now people picking up their nice new 997s, driving out of the dealer lot and promptly crashing them into the nearest tree!

    That first snow fall was completely unexpected and I didn't yet have my snow tires on. My M5 was completely uncontrollable on performance 275s (let alone 295s).

    I had to abandon it a few miles from my office. A couple of days later I retrieved it but driving the last mile to my house the streets weren't perfectly plowed and had firm snow pack.

    My M5 spun out and I had to change the wheels/tires in the middle of the street before I could make it home.

    Not something I'd care to do again!

    Re: Official Porsche Winter Tires Recommendations for 2004/2

    Oh yeah, there is no way that high performance "Z" rated tires can handle any snow. But, the Blizzaks on 17" wheels on my E39 M5 was a BLAST to drive in the snow. Maybe I'm nuts, but I'm looking forward to driving my 997S in the snow and ice. Obviously, not the really heavy stuff...

     
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