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    Right, who do you think is in the wrong and to blame for this?

    It's not a Tourist day, It's a closed track day.


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    Re: Right, who do you think is in the wrong and to blame for this?

    I didn't see the BMW signal to allow the pass like the GT3 cars did...


    Re: Right, who do you think is in the wrong and to blame for this?

    Yeah, to me it was unfortunate for both drivers, but the EVO was too eager to get past if you ask me.  The EVO was off the power all the way which intimated to me he was a little unsure if he should pass.  The BMW over cooked it initially, but for me the EVO should have waited to see what came of it.

    It's not a passing point there either from what I gather or should I say a little unwise to do so but perhaps PJ can clear that one up.   He looks like he knows the Ring very well becasue he's quite quick, so perhaps he should have known better.


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    Re: Right, who do you think is in the wrong and to blame for this?

    Can't tell for sure, but it looks to me as though the BMW braked, moved over to the right to be passed and then moved back again to the left causing the collision...

     

     


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    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: Right, who do you think is in the wrong and to blame for this?

    What you doing up?  Thought it was only me that burnt the minight oil.   I think the BMW driver overcooks the corner John, hence why he ends up on the RHS of the track, after he avoids an incident he pulls back to the left to gather the line again...meanwhile....


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    Re: Right, who do you think is in the wrong and to blame for this?

    Hi Rich - just got back from a special evening at one of my venues.  Difficult to go straight to bed....need some time to unwind...

     


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    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: Right, who do you think is in the wrong and to blame for this?

     The BMW driver lost his car or just moved to the left...actually it does not make much difference. His blinker was not on.

    When you overtake you take a risk. The EVO guy went for it too early , he was not completely sure the BMW would stay on the the side. So he took the chance , but it did not work. I would say it was more his fault. 

    But as it is a closed day track, rules on tracks are : each pays his own damages . And that's the most fair in this case


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     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Right, who do you think is in the wrong and to blame for this?

    Looks like a combinations of factors the way I see it 

    - the EVO was a bit too eager, came up on the BMW with too much of a speed differential when there was no clear line free to pass (like there would be on a straight),

    - the BMW driver looked like he took the previous turn too fast and had to slam on the brakes and went wide,

    - the EVO misinterpreted the BMW going wide as a signal that he was being alowed to pass,

    - when the BMW driver tried to go back to the driving line for the next turn he closed the door for the EVO,

    - the EVO in that place had no were to go, braked with the left wheels on the grass and spinned it.

     

    Bottom line, the EVO should have not tried to pass on such a spot (where there is a transition from one curve to another where driving line and overtaking line cross, and no escape) without being given the blinkers. Just a few meters ahead there was a straight were he could of done that. These things happen in the heat of the moment unfortunately and you don't always make the best desition and the EVO driver was unlucky.


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    Re: Right, who do you think is in the wrong and to blame for this?

     I think the BMW is the one to blame totally. Its a racetrack, if the BMW starts to pull to a side, the driver behind automatically steps in and overtakes no matter what circumstances, as this is a racetrack !!, once you decide a direction you cant change it in a matter of a second and close someone (of course the BMW driver didn't saw him in his rear mirror)....

    Either way, the EVO owner was lucky enough to not touch the fence (or at least that, is how it looks from the video). 


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    Re: Right, who do you think is in the wrong and to blame for this?

     

    Bottom line, the EVO should have not tried to pass on such a spot (where there is a transition from one curve to another where driving line and overtaking line cross, and no escape) without being given the blinkers. Just a few meters ahead there was a straight were he could of done that. These things happen in the heat of the moment unfortunately and you don't always make the best desition and the EVO driver was unlucky.


    Fully agree.

    J.Seven


    Re: Right, who do you think is in the wrong and to blame for this?

    Great points on both sides of this.

    I agree with Alex a bit here - the BMW falls off the line, and assumes he can just jump back on it.  I don't know the rules of this event (if permission was required, it clearly was not given), but I also doubt the BMW was aware of where the Porsche was.  I think he's a little more "at fault" but the Porsche has to be kicking himself a bit too.

    It seems to me the the BMW has limited awareness.  He also seems to be only partially aware of how much space he needs to give the spinning Porsche ahead of him.  The near miss at the very end of the video seems mostly related to his judgment.

    I think he may have hit the rail, because his engine goes quiet suddenly as he spins out.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     


    Re: Right, who do you think is in the wrong and to blame for this?

    100% BMW M3 fault. He missed his brake point went wide and then without looking cut back into racing line definitely not seeing the guy behind. He should perhaps been a little more careful because he didn't see a signal and passed anyways, which is also illegal.


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    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: Right, who do you think is in the wrong and to blame for this?

     The BMW looks lost to me - he was on the wrong side of the track, and didn't brake at all until he realised he wasn't going to make it round what is a fairly tricky section - i.e. you can tell from the line he takes that he's going to be in trouble in a few seconds.  Personally I'd have waited til it was clear he'd recovered.  Having said that, the guy shouldn't have just drifted back onto the racing line, either.


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    2007 987S, KW v3 1964 Type 1


    Re: Right, who do you think is in the wrong and to blame for this?

    M3 driver is at fault. He should have looked before he dove back inside after drifting wide on the exit of his last turn.


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    ...the only thing stopping you in all likelihood, is you!


    Re: Right, who do you think is in the wrong and to blame for this?

    From a sportsman point of view, the BMW was to blame but from a legal point of view, both are to blame. Not that it really matters during a closed track event. 

    Personally, I would have waited until the BMW gives me a clear sign to pass him. I really hate it to come home from the track, having to explain to my wife why I have to spend another 5000 or 10000 EUR for a day which was supposed to be fun. Unless of course the insurance pays but I highly doubt it. 


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Right, who do you think is in the wrong and to blame for this?

    I thought this thread is about US politics once more...

    The BMW driver clearly lost control, there is no reason that one should turn in the way he did at that particular corner. Therefore it is fairly safe to say that he did not move back onto the racing line deliberately. Whatever reason there was, he swerved and braked after the apex of the corner which, in this case, shows that he is not in control of the situation. In my opinion, that occurrence should´ve been reason enough for any following driver to back of.

    As being said above, if one takes the risk to pass without waiting for an indication to do so one has to live with the outcome. As sad as it is...


     
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