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    C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/10q3/2011_aston_martin_v12_vantage_vs._2010_audi_r8_5.2_fsi_v10_2011_ferrari_458...



    How fast is fast? How fast is fast enough? Perceptions vary. You might observe, correctly, that this five-rocket salvo doesn’t represent the ultimate liquid-fuel thrust available on today’s automotive launchpad. There are cars—a few—with higher power ratings, higher flat-out speeds, and much higher price tags.

    Compared with a Bugatti Veyron, the ultimate example, everything in this collection looks a little more ordinary and a lot more attainable. You could buy the entire group and still have a couple hundred thou left over. But it’s hard to argue that these aren’t some of the most desirable cars on the road. They make us even more grateful than usual that we aren’t quadrupeds. The slowest sprints to 60 in barely more than four seconds, and all can attain 100 mph in less than 10 seconds.

    We’d hoped to make this show a little bigger, but the folks at Lamborghini declined to participate. Disappointing. But even with a Lambo in the cast, the star of this show, in terms of sheer wattage, has to be Ferrari’s new 458 Italia. The menacingly  wedgy sheetmetal, amplified by the baritone boom of its 4.5-liter V-8, sends parking valets into fibrillating sensory overload.

    The Mercedes SLS AMG also got a lot of attention whenever we popped its gullwing doors, a move that could draw a crowd in Antarctica.

    This is not to suggest that the other contestants are wallflowers. All three—Aston Martin Vantage, Audi R8, Porsche 911 Turbo—are familiar faces [“Everyday Supercars,” July 2007]. But “familiar” does not mean “same as.”

    The Aston checks in with the DBS’s 5.9-liter V-12. Similarly, the R8 5.2 has a V-10 to increase its urgency index. And the 911 Turbo, a sports-car benchmark for more than four decades, emerged from its recent makeover faster (of course) and easier to manage at high speed on challenging roads. The example we have here is the 30-hp-boosted Turbo S version.

    We opened the comparo at Nevada’s Reno-Fernley Raceway, in the bleak desert hills about 30 miles east of Reno. That’s where we generated our test numbers, and these merit a couple caveats. Like most desert tracks, Reno-Fernley is dusty, which likely diluted both launch and braking performance a bit. Also, the skidpad’s unswept surface, bumpy paving, and tight radius (180 feet) diminished lateral-acceleration results.

    We drove west from Reno-Fernley, to sparsely populated roads in the Sierra Nevada. The High Sierra experience—unknown public two-lanes, sometimes requiring extraordinary responses—revealed behavioral traits and capabilities that the racetrack could not.

    Extraordinary, of course, is what these machines are. But inevitably, some emerged as more extraordinary than others. Continued...





    Ferrari 458 Italia

    0-60mph - 3,3s
    0-100mph - 7,5s
    1/4mile - 11,5s @ 125mph
    lap time - 1:32,7

    Porsche 911 Turbo S

    0-60mph - 2,7s
    0-100mph - 6,4s
    1/4mile - 10,8s @ 129mph
    lap time - 1:33,2

    Mercedes SLS AMG

    0-60mph - 3,5s
    0-100mph - 7,7s
    1/4mile - 11,6s @ 125mph
    lap time - 1:34,0

    Aston Martin V12 Vantage

    0-60mph - 4,2s
    0-100mph - 9,2s
    1/4mile - 12,5s @ 117mph
    lap time - 1:35,6

    Audi R8 5,2FSI

    0-60mph - 3,7s
    0-100mph - 8,5s
    1/4mile - 12,0s @ 118mph
    lap time - 1:35,7

    Download in PDF 26mb


    --

    Porsche 997 GT2 & Porsche Cayenne Turbo 8-Spd


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    LOL, some of the categories are so stupid.  Turbo actually got 2 points for having a rear seat.


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

     

    Most interesting: 458 sooooo much slower than turbo S - at least in this test.


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    MKSGR:

     

    Most interesting: 458 sooooo much slower than turbo S - at least in this test.


    ...and slower in 0-140mph then SLS AMG.

    No doubt about it-Turbo S is in 0-300km/h probably at least as fast as 458.

    Now... This puts strange light at recent Sport Auto 0-300km/h tests at Papenburg. First, 997.2 Turbo PDK was way slower then usual. Second, in latest test SLS AMG was slower then on AMS test in Nardo. For various credible sources I know that both 997.2 Turbo PDK and SLS AMG are 36s 0-300km/h cars.


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    And turbo s is 33s car?

    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    Bought the magazine - pure waste of money!

    Surely, this test deserved a more detailed report. CD probably doesn't have the advertising dollars to do so.

    Anyway, while they did take the cars over to the Sierra  mountains around Reno Nevada (with some great roads), they failed to provide much detail.

    AM V-12 Vantage - For instance, saying that the AM V12  "sometimes had to work harder to keep up"  doesn't tell us why. Was it due to its handling/accelaration/braking,  less low end torque, less top end power, gearing, traction, tires or what? What about this car's tendency to oversteer?

    MB SLS - Surely the surprise performer of the group. Beating the 458 from 0-140mph, and lapping within 0.8s of the tts'. How did they place it in 4th place behind the Audi after it  trounced the R8 by 3 seconds from 0-140mph, beat it in the 1/4 mile and out lapped it by 1.7 seconds ? I'm sorry, but their rating system is useless.

    Audi R8- 5.2 - What's going on with this mid engine car? The slowest around the track?

    911tts - No question the performance benchmark. Porsche must have done some magic to fix the handling deficiencies present in my 997.1 tt. Too bad about the pathetic sound track and turbo lag . Really spoils the experience IMO. Oh - how long will the drivetrain last trying to match 0-60mph in 2.7s? We will see.

    Ferrari 458 - Not as impressive as first thought. They missed the boat by not reducing its weight - as promissed. 

    Too bad they used a fairly tight (technical) track. Not ideal for these thoroughbred to stretch their legs. Wouldn't it be great if car magazines used 2 different tracks to test their cars? Oh - some do.

    For my money - SLS all the way.

     

     


    --
     

    997TT Blk/Blk,  BMW K1300GT


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

     Ferrari price point just does not make sense. With a few options it is almost $100,000 more than the other cars. They really need to rethink their marketing. The expensive but more exclusive strategy can take you only so far. 

    Maybe they should just produce more cars and charge less. The difference between the other cars and the 458 is not that great.

     


    --

     


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    Nick,

    I understand these are tough economic times, but is the 458 price point affecting sales at all? 

    Best,

    Justin


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    Nick thought fcar pricing was fine when he could own them for free.

     

    Is 2.7 real? Is this dead stop to 60? I remember something about differences between Europe and US acceleration testing beyond the 60 vs. 62 part.


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    Without a doubt that was an important consideration in buying Ferrari's. But the recent recession has taken out a lot of buyers out of the market and most if not all Ferrari owners are experience fairly dramatic depreciation. The carrot to buy Ferrari remains an opportunity to buy the 458. If the car does not meet expectations, It will not be in demand and will negatively impact all Ferrari models new and used. 


    --

     


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    artur777:
    And turbo s is 33s car?

    Probably, since GT Purely Porsche magazine did 0-180 mph (290 km/h) in 28 seconds...

    Smiley


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    Smiley


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    nberry:

     Ferrari price point just does not make sense. With a few options it is almost $100,000 more than the other cars. They really need to rethink their marketing. The expensive but more exclusive strategy can take you only so far. 

    Maybe they should just produce more cars and charge less. The difference between the other cars and the 458 is not that great. 


    I know from a trustworthy source that there are some people at Ferrari who are quite suspicious of their new customers and their need for all those exaggerated, silly and ridiciously expensive options.

    But as long as they fill the cash box of Ferrari... Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    vantagesc:

    Nick,

    I understand these are tough economic times, but is the 458 price point affecting sales at all? 

    Best,

    Justin

     In the US my guess it has not. Most of the early orders are long time Ferrari owners who often own more than one Ferrari. Once those orders are filled the price will become an issue especially if comparison tests like the one above continue to demonstrate that the 458 is an excellent car but not that much better than cars worth $100,000 less. 


    --

     


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    nberry:
    vantagesc:

    Nick,

    I understand these are tough economic times, but is the 458 price point affecting sales at all? 

    Best,

    Justin

     In the US my guess it has not. Most of the early orders are long time Ferrari owners who often own more than one Ferrari. Once those orders are filled the price will become an issue especially if comparison tests like the one above continue to demonstrate that the 458 is an excellent car but not that much better than cars worth $100,000 less. 

     

    Nick, Name one Ferrari model that isn't overpriced/outperformed by less expensive car.
    I was fortunate enough to have the 348 when it came out. Although it was way slower than most of the Japanese sport cars back then I still loved it!

    The same applies to my 355. The 360 was superior for a year after it came out till the AMGs and the Porsches   got faster and better.

    Ferrari commands such high prices because they can. At the Paris motor show on Thursday, Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo said the marque's profits were close to record highs in 2010.


    How do you think the Bugatti owners feel when they found out the GTO(costs less than half of what they paid) broke the Nurburg's record??



     


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    koko:
    nberry:
    vantagesc:

    Nick,

    I understand these are tough economic times, but is the 458 price point affecting sales at all? 

    Best,

    Justin

     In the US my guess it has not. Most of the early orders are long time Ferrari owners who often own more than one Ferrari. Once those orders are filled the price will become an issue especially if comparison tests like the one above continue to demonstrate that the 458 is an excellent car but not that much better than cars worth $100,000 less. 

     

    Nick, Name one Ferrari model that isn't overpriced/outperformed by less expensive car.
    I was fortunate enough to have the 348 when it came out. Although it was way slower than most of the Japanese sport cars back then I still loved it!

    The same applies to my 355. The 360 was superior for a year after it came out till the AMGs and the Porsches   got faster and better.

    Ferrari commands such high prices because they can. At the Paris motor show on Thursday, Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo said the marque's profits were close to record highs in 2010.


    How do you think the Bugatti owners feel when they found out the GTO(costs less than half of what they paid) broke the Nurburg's record??



     

    This discussion is really a vicious circle!

    An F1 car is the fastest circuit rounding machine on earth, yet a GP2 car is only 10% off its pace for 1/10th of the money, hence it's a batter value machine. 

    A road legal Ferrari FXX Edo is the fastest thing one could buy for the road (for an estimated, cool, 2m Euros nowadays) but for 1/10th of the money, one could get a 458 that is only some 25% slower round a standard circuit. Thus the 458 is the better value for money car.

    Then, a Porsche 911 Turbo S is only 5% slower but 25% less expensive than the 458; hence the better value.

    A Nissan GTR though is as quick if not quicker than the 997.2 TT S for half the money, ergo 100% better value!

    A Mitsubishi Lance Evo is only 20% slower than the GTR for 1/3rd of the money.

    Q.E.D., all of the aforementioned cars are inferior to a Mini Cooper S. 

     

    SmileySmileySmileySmiley

     

    PS: The results of C&D are laughable, as per usual... Smiley


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    koko:
    nberry:
    vantagesc:

    Nick,

    I understand these are tough economic times, but is the 458 price point affecting sales at all? 

    Best,

    Justin

     In the US my guess it has not. Most of the early orders are long time Ferrari owners who often own more than one Ferrari. Once those orders are filled the price will become an issue especially if comparison tests like the one above continue to demonstrate that the 458 is an excellent car but not that much better than cars worth $100,000 less. 

     

    Nick, Name one Ferrari model that isn't overpriced/outperformed by less expensive car.




     

     You're missing the point. Previously, Ferrari had little competition in a buyer group interested in exotic high performance sport cars. Over the past ten years several auto manufacturers saw an opportunity to cash in on this market and began introducing models to compete with Ferrari.

    Initially, they had difficulty producing a car to compete with Ferrari at a much lower price point. Thus, many of us continued to buy Ferrari since the other models were not only performance inferior but suffered fairly substantial depreciation. Ferrari's at least in the US depreciated very little.

    But Ferrari changed the buying dynamic. They began to introduce new models including one cheaper than their flag ship mid-engine car. At the same time, they raise prices on their coveted mid-engine model substantially in an effort to separate itself from the rest of the competitors. It is as if Ferrari was saying to the buying public "we are different because we cost a hell of a lot more and never mind we don't offer anything different from the rest"

    If this is what they believe and I believe they believe that, not only do I find it offensive as a buyer in that group but  also find it  bad brand strategy. Smiley

     

     


    --

     


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    Well there's so many things to test a car, i always found the above guidelines and points a well rounded thing as long as they are applied to all cars tested. It's always been more or less accurate. They don't only look for 0 to 60 or top speed or even just handling... it's about package these days. I think the SLS does very well and deserves to be further up there even behind the 911. It really does perform well compared to the 458, considering they are of different breed alltogether. thanks for posting, the pics are beautiful.

    I think Nick you are bang on with the Ferrari position as of lately. They really do want to keep that magic Ferrari image, but really it has to be concrete. Their HELE stuff and all is worrying.


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    Turbo S PDK

     

    458 Italia


    --

    Porsche 997 GT2 & Porsche Cayenne Turbo 8-Spd


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    Hopefully they do a test like this again with the new 2012 Corvette ZR1 Centennial Edition...With Pilot Sport Cup tires, lighter wheels, more carbon fiber, and gearing improvements...I think it would land near the top of this list.  Lateral g's over 1.1, improved braking distance, improved acceleration...I'm guessing it will hit 60mph in 3 seconds flat...and the 1/4 should be easily in the 10's.

     

    Here's the press release on it... www.autospies.com/news/Chevrolet-Announces-2012-Corvette-Centennial-Edition-Z06-And-ZR1-Models-63473/


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

     One thing we forget, due to emissions and whole bunch of other requirements, cars sold in EU vs NA are not the same, and hence we can't expect same performance, I guess some companies are good in dealing with NA standards than others, and I would guess Ferrari is not good in dealing with meeting these NA standards. I might be mistaken, please feel free to correct me. 


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    HP is nothing without control....I've driven Z06 vs Gt3RS on the track in Dijon and our of corners - even fast ones the Z06 looses traction because of to much torque and stands no chance against the GT3 who's weight is in the back - on the straights yes very fast - but you need to replace the brakes to AP to be able to track a Z06 - standarts are gone after 2 laps....not kidding....no match in corners whatsoever...


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    This sums up with it wasn't included in this supertest...

     

     


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    The motivation for buying a car in this price range is more complex than any given performance figure. No other automobile looks or sounds like a Ferrari so that in and of itself can justify the price differential for some. The Turbo is a terrific performer to be sure, but could easily be mistaken for a regular 911, an advantage to some, not to others. The others all have elements of appeal beyond the numbers that speak to a prospective owner. Unless one of these cars were to be embarassingly slow or unexpectedly unreliable I cannot see the value of attempting to rank them.
    --

    "Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    These tests are lame. The cars are so fast that the accelleration differences really dont mean much for typical street driving.

    The test premise is too assumptive. Wich one is best? Wich one to buy? People who have the resources to park a new Ferrari in their garage can usually afford a 997 Turbo also. Indeed some people here own both. Someone named Nick comes to mind....


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    The AM Vantage V12 performance is quite disappointing. The car weights 250 pounds more than the AWD and rear passenger room equipped 997 Turbo S...not really acceptable.

    Just compare the performance between the Vantage V12 and the Turbo S...amazing difference. The Vantage V12 would actually have trouble taking on a Carrera GTS. Ouch.

    AM needs to lower weight and make their cars more effective.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    One has to say that the Turbo´s weight is incredibly low if you compare it with its rivals, despite its AWD and steel chassis. The high torque numbers of the turbocharged engines demand solid and therefore heavy components as well.

    The Ferrari might be the lightest, considering its level of equipment it could´ve well been even lower.

    The AM, apart from being more GT than sportscar, certainly has its burden due to the heavy V12 engine. I also believe that the company is lacking ressources to significantly reduce the weight on the fly, this is probably due with the next modelchange.


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    Well Mercedes did just enter a partnership with AM, so I think the resources side could be taken care of.. Question, what's in it for Benz


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    REALZEUS:
    A road legal Ferrari FXX Edo is the fastest thing one could buy for the road (for an estimated, cool, 2m Euros nowadays) but for 1/10th of the money, one could get a 458 that is only some 25% slower round a standard circuit. Thus the 458 is the better value for money car.

     

     Isn't Zonda R faster than FXX Edo? Just curious..


    --

    ONUR

    11 M3 Coupe AW

    09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

     


    Re: C&D: AM V12 vs Audi R8 vs 458 Italia vs SLS AMG vs 911 Turbo S

    RC:

    The AM Vantage V12 performance is quite disappointing. The car weights 250 pounds more than the AWD and rear passenger room equipped 997 Turbo S...not really acceptable.

    Just compare the performance between the Vantage V12 and the Turbo S...amazing difference. The Vantage V12 would actually have trouble taking on a Carrera GTS. Ouch.

    AM needs to lower weight and make their cars more effective.


    Astons just cant get their claimed power to the ground. They are slower than a stripper 50K Corvette and thats sad for such a brand and ridiculous for the price. Astons sound better than they go. Maybe thats their new market, all bark and no bite.


     
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