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    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Yes. I believe the campaign slogan will be : "Go in style".


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    EnglishManInNY:

    indecision

    Hearse model coming? 

    Panamera-hearse.jpg

    Turbo S? SmileySmiley


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    fritz:
    noone1:

    Side profile looks great on the Sport Turismo. Side profile on those facelift mules look like shit.

    jkhlkjhlk.PNG

    Take a closer look at this one: 

    porsche-panamera-03-1.jpg

    At what? Lines look completely different...


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    noone1:
    fritz:
    noone1:

    Side profile looks great on the Sport Turismo. Side profile on those facelift mules look like shit.

    jkhlkjhlk.PNG

    Take a closer look at this one: 

    porsche-panamera-03-1.jpg

    At what? Lines look completely different...

    Looks to me like the area you circled on the Sport Turismo might be the same on the sedan, but camouflaged with padding and a foil wrap. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Hmm...

     


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Unless that have fake doors and front fenders... yuck


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    noone1:

    Unless that have fake doors and front fenders... yuck

    But you must admit that the lines on the mules are not far off the red marked area that you did on the sport turismo? The Sport turismo is also in a light blue crystal color and under perfect spotlight reflections which makes a huge difference in visualizing the lines. They are not the same, but if you like the sport turismo ones you can't hate the mule. I agree that the Sport turismo as a whole car looks much sweeter than the Pana, but that was not the issue here. Or you maybe don't like it because it is more controversial and create a debate? SmileySmiley


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    they should just produce the sport turismo and I'll buy one.

    why show us a design that we like and then produce something else?yes

    the lines on the mule is slightly different than on sport turismo and just does not look as right...

     


    --

    Tim

    2010 997.2 GT3RS;  2008 Cayenne Turbo;  2006 911 Club Coupe;  2016 911 GTS Club Coupe;  2015 Macan S
     


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Lukas:
    noone1:

    Unless that have fake doors and front fenders... yuck

    But you must admit that the lines on the mules are not far off the red marked area that you did on the sport turismo? The Sport turismo is also in a light blue crystal color and under perfect spotlight reflections which makes a huge difference in visualizing the lines. They are not the same, but if you like the sport turismo ones you can't hate the mule. I agree that the Sport turismo as a whole car looks much sweeter than the Pana, but that was not the issue here. Or you maybe don't like it because it is more controversial and create a debate? SmileySmiley

    I disagree. They are very far off and unappealing. It's the equivalent of having a painting hanging crooked or a shelf not level. Same general shapes, but even a slight difference makes it vastly different in overall appearance.

    The Panamera lines look like the napkin sketch of the Sport Turismo. 

     


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Guys, both variants will be available - standard body and sport turismo.

    Relax


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    The look shit out of two reasons.

    1. First of all all the vertical lines are missing which are giving dynamic
    2. the one of the Panamera are much higher - so this is killing the dynamic, too. 

    1459921757650SideSkirs.png


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Targa Tim:

    they should just produce the sport turismo and I'll buy one.

    why show us a design that we like and then produce something else?yes

    I agree and I can tell you why - this is like with little kids which don't want to share there favorite toys Smiley


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    RS 991:
    Lars997:
    ALDO:
    Lars997:

    Front bumper is like the Caymen first generation. The black plastic parts are similar to a Golf GTI. Especially that black piece of plastic we are seeing on the rear is same like on the 718 and just screams - cheap plastic. It is definitely more a facelift than a complete new car, but this is what we are used to from Porsche. They always keep 70% of the car for two generations. Seeing that I have to say that Tesla made a better looking Porsche Limousine with the Tesla 3.

    This car is a totally new car. All new parts even the lens hood. Wait until you see the car in flesh. 

    I see the car daily in flesh and since two or three weeks they hardly wear some camo. The car looks like the old with a bit make up. Only thing - the rear lights are a million light years better. Other than that - same old sh*t. It misses innovation and even regarding technology there  is no innovation to expect. It is Mercedes, BMW which are bringing innovations to life, may it be gadgets, safety or material mix - nothing new from Porsche. And for sure Tesla with its digitalization is moving faster than any of the Germans together. But clearly to see - Porsche is adding Zero innovations throughout the model lines (maybe you can see some innovations in the 918, but even here, nothing we haven't seen from any other brands). They are adapters and not innovators.

    I wouldn't say so. The Panamera was quite innovative back in 2009. It was the first car with a double clutch transmission in its class, it had adaptive aerodynamics, some parts of the chassis and engine were out of magnesium,pdcc,the all-wheel-drive was and is still one of the sportiest in its class. It's a benchmark in its class. Of course the infotainment system is dated and the engine can't hold up with the current technology either (hot V).  But this will probably change soon.

    I think you didn't get my point. Innovations are completely new things. Double clutch in a class is not innovative as it is there already from so many others - and by the way, the Quattroporte had it 6 years earlier (since 2006). And using magnesium in the engine build isn't new either - Mercedes is doing this on its AMG engines since many years before. And regarding the All-wheel drive, the ratio might be a bit sportier but here is Audi in the lead - doing it since decades. 

    As I say - the Panamera as any "regular" Porsche brought up any real innovation.

     

     


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Lars, 

    Quattroporte did not have DCT any time in its production life. It had roborised manual and old 6 speed automatic.

    But, I do not consider DCT as ultimate choice for sport sedan. New generation of automatics like 8 speed ZF (BMW) and 9 speed of Mercedes are current leaders.


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Panamera is 4 seator, and sport turismo is 5 seats avant.  Panamera should present 1 year ahead of Sport Turismo (2017 Q2)

    like RS7 and RS6. for those who does not like Panamera have another option which means more money for Porsche....  why wouldn't they built it..... 100% they will built

     


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Lars, totally agree with you. porsche is lacking innovation and cutting edge tech.

    it seems their focus is simply on selling....whatever the market absorbs


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Lars997:

    I think you didn't get my point. Innovations are completely new things. Double clutch in a class is not innovative as it is there already from so many others - and by the way, the Quattroporte had it 6 years earlier (since 2006). And using magnesium in the engine build isn't new either - Mercedes is doing this on its AMG engines since many years before. And regarding the All-wheel drive, the ratio might be a bit sportier but here is Audi in the lead - doing it since decades. 

    As I say - the Panamera as any "regular" Porsche brought up any real innovation.

    I'm afraid if we set the bar for "innovation" that high, we'll discover that no one is actually innovating, that there is nothing new under the sun.


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    apias:
    Lars997:

    I think you didn't get my point. Innovations are completely new things. Double clutch in a class is not innovative as it is there already from so many others - and by the way, the Quattroporte had it 6 years earlier (since 2006). And using magnesium in the engine build isn't new either - Mercedes is doing this on its AMG engines since many years before. And regarding the All-wheel drive, the ratio might be a bit sportier but here is Audi in the lead - doing it since decades. 

    As I say - the Panamera as any "regular" Porsche brought up any real innovation.

    I'm afraid if we set the bar for "innovation" that high, we'll discover that no one is actually innovating, that there is nothing new under the sun.

    Come on, that is not true. BMW i3, not only is it electric it's also made of carbon fibre reinforced plastic internally. Likewise the new 7 series with its "carbon core". Just a couple of recent examples. 


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    But, it's not the first electric car, nor the first to use carbon fiber, probably not the first to use both.


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    WAY:
    apias:
    Lars997:

    I think you didn't get my point. Innovations are completely new things. Double clutch in a class is not innovative as it is there already from so many others - and by the way, the Quattroporte had it 6 years earlier (since 2006). And using magnesium in the engine build isn't new either - Mercedes is doing this on its AMG engines since many years before. And regarding the All-wheel drive, the ratio might be a bit sportier but here is Audi in the lead - doing it since decades. 

    As I say - the Panamera as any "regular" Porsche brought up any real innovation.

    I'm afraid if we set the bar for "innovation" that high, we'll discover that no one is actually innovating, that there is nothing new under the sun.

    Come on, that is not true. BMW i3, not only is it electric it's also made of carbon fibre reinforced plastic internally. Likewise the new 7 series with its "carbon core". Just a couple of recent examples. 

    Agree - the 7 is full of innovations. The S-Class had the active body control which works wonder and the E-Class has as well as the Tesla a partially autonomous drive. There are still innovations out there guys! 


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    KresoF1:

    Lars, 

    Quattroporte did not have DCT any time in its production life. It had roborised manual and old 6 speed automatic.

    But, I do not consider DCT as ultimate choice for sport sedan. New generation of automatics like 8 speed ZF (BMW) and 9 speed of Mercedes are current leaders.

    Hi Kreso - you are right. The Quattroporte had a sequential gear  box not the double clutch. 


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Lars997:
    RS 991:
    Lars997:
    ALDO:
    Lars997:

    Front bumper is like the Caymen first generation. The black plastic parts are similar to a Golf GTI. Especially that black piece of plastic we are seeing on the rear is same like on the 718 and just screams - cheap plastic. It is definitely more a facelift than a complete new car, but this is what we are used to from Porsche. They always keep 70% of the car for two generations. Seeing that I have to say that Tesla made a better looking Porsche Limousine with the Tesla 3.

    This car is a totally new car. All new parts even the lens hood. Wait until you see the car in flesh. 

    I see the car daily in flesh and since two or three weeks they hardly wear some camo. The car looks like the old with a bit make up. Only thing - the rear lights are a million light years better. Other than that - same old sh*t. It misses innovation and even regarding technology there  is no innovation to expect. It is Mercedes, BMW which are bringing innovations to life, may it be gadgets, safety or material mix - nothing new from Porsche. And for sure Tesla with its digitalization is moving faster than any of the Germans together. But clearly to see - Porsche is adding Zero innovations throughout the model lines (maybe you can see some innovations in the 918, but even here, nothing we haven't seen from any other brands). They are adapters and not innovators.

    I wouldn't say so. The Panamera was quite innovative back in 2009. It was the first car with a double clutch transmission in its class, it had adaptive aerodynamics, some parts of the chassis and engine were out of magnesium,pdcc,the all-wheel-drive was and is still one of the sportiest in its class. It's a benchmark in its class. Of course the infotainment system is dated and the engine can't hold up with the current technology either (hot V).  But this will probably change soon.

    I think you didn't get my point. Innovations are completely new things. Double clutch in a class is not innovative as it is there already from so many others - and by the way, the Quattroporte had it 6 years earlier (since 2006). And using magnesium in the engine build isn't new either - Mercedes is doing this on its AMG engines since many years before. And regarding the All-wheel drive, the ratio might be a bit sportier but here is Audi in the lead - doing it since decades. 

    As I say - the Panamera as any "regular" Porsche brought up any real innovation.


    If Porsche would have wanted to make the car stylistically more advanced they would´ve certainly be able to do so. So I believe they have a reason, be it marketing or design philosophy in itself, to continue with the well-known theme void of any real surprises. 

    In terms of technology, Porsche has hardly been a trendsetter, hardly any technology has been presented first at Porsche, be it turbocharging, ceramic brakes, active suspension, sway bars or rear-axle steering. Apart from the Japanese (e.g. Honda) or American (GM), even among the German brands BMW or Audi have presented technically more advanced proposals in serial production. The carbon roof and bonnet on the M3 CSL comes to mind.

    Innovation costs money and a smaller manufacturer such as Porsche is dependent on suppliers, cooperation partners or mother companies to bring real advancements. BMW can use its experience in carbon technology from 1- to 7-series as well as sportscars and their new electric i-model lineup. I also believe that, under Wiedeking, the company gains were highest priority a. in itself and b. not to get into a similar situation as in the 90ies again. Since development cycles take a couple years, we might still see the result of this philosophy. 

    Your comment raises an interesting question though, as it sounds as if innovation per se is one of your main motivations to buy a new car. I personally view the entire package to be either sufficiently convincing or unconvincing to purchase a car.


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    intouch1:

    Lars, totally agree with you. porsche is lacking innovation and cutting edge tech.

    it seems their focus is simply on selling....whatever the market absorbs

    Our GMC(!) Yukon rental car had Apple CarPlay! My 2015 Carrera 4 GTS doesn't have it, I also cannot retrofit it. Only thing I can retrofit is a PCM software upgrade with some online (through app and smartphone though) traffic features and updated map data...for a "cheap" 399 EUR. Smiley Also, streaming through smartphone works much better with my Mini JCW entertainment system than the 991.1 PCM.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Apple CarPlay is just rubbish in it's current version. I have it in my Macan GTS and never use it. But really did give it a chance and have tested it thoroughly.  I really like new tech and is a big Apple fan, but the Carplay is just so bad. Integration with the vehicle is so-so, low resolution, limited availability of apps, Annoying Siri integration, no autoresume for music (like you have via BT), Apple Map App is the worst navigation app and looks like something from 2003, Music apps are decent (spotify, deezer), but really does not provide any additional value. yes, you can browse/scroll in playlists, but the font is huge and not very user friendly to scroll between songs. I have rather long playlists and prefer to use next/prev while driving and does not need to spend time browsing my music libraries - this I can do while stationary. It is a laugh also that pinch/zoom does not work in Carplay mode and also that the steering wheel buttons can't be used (answer phone calls, switch to next music track, etc).

    So for those of you who feel envy about the new model years Carplay, you can just relax, because you don't miss a thing. The new PCM however is amazing and the integration with google services works very well (RTT, google earth, online search). The resolution is high, pinch/zoom works a treat, the UI is well thought thru, graphics looks great and modern with nice typeface, the Map gfx in 3d is the best I ever seen in a car and a joy to look at while driving.


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    I actually liked it, not a lot but it worked quite OK. I was able to basically remote control my iPhone, this was really nice. Yes, the resolution wasn't great but better than no integration at all. I haven't played around with the new PCM but Apple CarPlay in the GMC was not bad at all (for a start).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Guess I am a rogue here, but I disliked the sport turismo from the start, and still don't like it.  The new design looks good, as far as i can see from the mule.  


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Rogue One... smiley

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wji-BZ0oCwg


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    Wonderbar:

    Guess I am a rogue here, but I disliked the sport turismo from the start, and still don't like it.  The new design looks good, as far as i can see from the mule.  

     

    That makes 2 of us Smiley


    --

     

     


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    RC:

    Rogue One... smiley

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wji-BZ0oCwg


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     

    If ever there was a more epic off topic! Thanks RC. I have yet to see that. 


    Re: Panamera 2016 (Gen.2) Thread Closed

    WAY:
    RC:

    Rogue One... smiley

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wji-BZ0oCwg

    If ever there was a more epic off topic! Thanks RC. I have yet to see that. 

    Blimey. I think you nailed the 2016 off-topic award there RC Smiley Smiley

    Chest rubbing hairy grizzly hugs from your favourite forum member Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


     
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