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    Jun 30, 2004 10:03:58 PM

    nberry Offline
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    Autoweek article on voiding warranties if a car is tracked

    should send sound alarms to all of you including future owners of the CGT. Here is a quote:

    Most automobilemakers say the same thing: Racing, track use, competition and other abuses aren't covered.

    "When it hits the track, all bets are off" says Bob Carlson, Porsche Cars of North America spokesman.

    If this is Porsches' position, then either do not track, race it or do not buy the car. Can you imagine Porsche voiding warranties on the CGT because it was tracked? What the hell was it made for if not for the track?

    Jun 30, 2004 10:10:23 PM

    brunner
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Autoweek article on voiding warranties if a car is tracked

    What's the latest on Enzo warranties?

    Jun 30, 2004 11:20:24 PM

    W8MM
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    Reply to: brunner

    Re: Autoweek article on voiding warranties if a car is tracked

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    What's the latest on Enzo warranties?



    Enzos might be indestructible. I heard that they're made from Unobtanium (that's why there are so few of them).

    Enzo owners don't need a warranty anyway. They're all so rich; they simply pay for incidental repairs. Like $25,000 for renewing the brakes after a track session.

    If you have to ask how much ...

    Jun 30, 2004 11:44:56 PM

    lev
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Autoweek article on voiding warranties if a car is tracked

    Nick,

    As a matter of fact there are insurance companies that provide insurance for the track racing for "normal" people who actually race their daily drivers.

    Of course you wouldnt know about it, since your sport car meant to be for another purposes

    Still I am encouraged by the fact that you seem to be interetsed in Porsche warranty. Did you decide to buy Porsche and this is your last issue needed to be resolved?

    Jul 1, 2004 12:34:46 AM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: Autoweek article on voiding warranties if a car is tracked

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Quote:
    brunner said:
    What's the latest on Enzo warranties?



    Enzos might be indestructible. I heard that they're made from Unobtanium (that's why there are so few of them).

    Enzo owners don't need a warranty anyway. They're all so rich; they simply pay for incidental repairs. Like $25,000 for renewing the brakes after a track session.

    If you have to ask how much ...



    Am I to understand you accept Porsches' position that should you have your CGT on a track and god forbid there is a engine failure your warranty does not apply?

    Lev I am not aware of any insurance that covers mechanical failure as a result of track activities. BTW, I would reconsider buying a Porsche IF they start catering to my market. Overall they make a very good car but they need to update their styling and model it like the CGT but with a useable clutch and a chassis that can withstand a minor impact.

    Jul 1, 2004 12:52:53 AM

    W8MM
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Autoweek article on voiding warranties if a car is tracked

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Am I to understand you accept Porsches' position that should you have your CGT on a track and god forbid there is a engine failure your warranty does not apply?



    No, ... Nick, ... I'm saying that Enzo owners might not care if the engine blew on track day. They'd just buy another one and go on trackin'

    By the way, what does the Enzo warranty say about track usage? Should I be worried if I have your green eyeshade attitudes about depreciation and own an Enzo that has been tracked?

    Besides, ... you didn't answer brunner's previous question about this. Are you hiding something?

    Jul 1, 2004 1:30:47 AM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: Autoweek article on voiding warranties if a car is tracked

    Mike the issue is not about Ferrari or the Enzo. Frankly I doubt many Enzo owner will ever take it to the track. It just is not that type of car. It is an art piece which will be sold at a profit.

    The CGT is a driver car. It is meant to be driven especially on a track and if Porsche does not warrant the car for track use, if I were in your position, I would give then HELL!!!

    Jul 1, 2004 2:54:49 AM

    lev
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Autoweek article on voiding warranties if a car is tracked

    Quote:
    Lev I am not aware of any insurance that covers mechanical failure as a result of track activities.



    Nick,

    We do have an insurance company here (Ontario, Canada), which provides insurance for track days. Its true that they first check your level of expertise, but if its an organized day by the racing school - they will insure you automatically, while you can drive alone on the track.

    Jul 1, 2004 4:16:31 AM

    Grant
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    Reply to: lev

    Re: Autoweek article on voiding warranties if a car is tracked

    Quote:
    lev said:
    Quote:
    Lev I am not aware of any insurance that covers mechanical failure as a result of track activities.



    Nick,

    We do have an insurance company here (Ontario, Canada), which provides insurance for track days. Its true that they first check your level of expertise, but if its an organized day by the racing school - they will insure you automatically, while you can drive alone on the track.



    I think the point is that insurance will cover crash damage, but if you blow your engine or have another expensive mechanical failure that is not crash-related, then the warranty is your only hope. If that is voided due to track use, then you're out of pocket...

    Jul 1, 2004 8:29:33 AM

    CFM
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: Autoweek article on voiding warranties if a car is tracked

    Quote:
    Most automobilemakers say the same thing: Racing, track use, competition and other abuses aren't covered.

    "When it hits the track, all bets are off" says Bob Carlson, Porsche Cars of North America spokesman.




    I am quite confident that this only applies to Racing.

    Jul 1, 2004 11:39:28 AM

    RCA
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Autoweek article on voiding warranties if a car is tracked

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    The CGT is a driver car. It is meant to be driven especially on a track and if Porsche does not warrant the car for track use, if I were in your position, I would give then HELL!!!



    You don't get a warranty for racing cars, so why should you get a warranty for a street car raced on the track, even if it is a CGT???
    We discussed this before a year or two ago, only official driver ed events are covered by warranty, for example the driver ed events done by Porsche and Porsche driving school.

    Jul 1, 2004 12:53:22 PM

    FixedWing
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    Reply to: RCA

    Here we go again....

    Quote:
    RC said:
    We discussed this before a year or two ago....



    Yes, we did. So those interested should do a search or the archives.

    But a synopsis is that Christian and I didn't agree on this. My feeling is that there is a minimum liability that the manufacturer couldn't disclaim. Take a look at the twin implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose. If PAG promotes a car as being suitable for a particular purpose then the purchaser can expect that it will be designed for that purpose.

    In my own personal case, I made such a claim in relation to my PCCB's and PAG ultimately accepted it. So I think I have been proved right.

    But query if PAG promotes the CGT as being a track car? I think that is the key. I know that they've quoted a track time at Nürburgring but is that enough?

    Stephen

    Jul 1, 2004 2:05:24 PM

    964C2
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Autoweek article on voiding warranties if a car is tracked

    My experience is that it depends on the problem, your electric window stops working at the track, you'll be covered.....you miss a shift and over-rev the engine and bend some valves, it won't be covered!!

    Jul 1, 2004 2:13:00 PM

    Ron (Houston)M
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Autoweek article on voiding warranties if a car is tracked

    This should clear this dispute

    Quote:

    Porsche AG
    Indeed, the Sports Chrono program even gives the driver the option to mastermind these benefits through efficient time management: Pressing the on-board computer control stalk on the steering column, the driver is able to start an analogue/digital stopwatch on the instrument panel. Then, entering simple commands at the touch of a button, he can clock, add up and save lap times .

    Jul 1, 2004 3:36:48 PM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: Ron (Houston)M

    Re: Autoweek article on voiding warranties if a car is tracked

    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    This should clear this dispute

    Quote:

    Porsche AG
    Indeed, the Sports Chrono program even gives the driver the option to mastermind these benefits through efficient time management: Pressing the on-board computer control stalk on the steering column, the driver is able to start an analogue/digital stopwatch on the instrument panel. Then, entering simple commands at the touch of a button, he can clock, add up and save lap times .





    Good Point! However one must look to the language in the owners manual. If they disclaim there, then it will be tough for them to back the warranty. If they do not disclaim then the wording above will certainly help getting coverage.

    Does the CGT have a timer? At one time they were discussing installing a video camera positioned behind the driver. Is it standard equipment?

    Jul 1, 2004 4:40:40 PM

    fritz
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    Reply to: 964C2

    Re: Autoweek article on voiding warranties if a car is tracked

    Quote:
    964C2 said:
    My experience is that it depends on the problem, your electric window stops working at the track, you'll be covered.....you miss a shift and over-rev the engine and bend some valves, it won't be covered!!



    Sounds reasonable enough to me.

    Motor sport is known to be an expensive sport. Any of us who are not prepared to accept that fact, and then also accept the consequences when things go wrong, have to look for other pastimes.

    Jul 1, 2004 9:52:36 PM

    1RAGE
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    Reply to: fritz

    Re: Autoweek article on voiding warranties if a car is tracked

    How would Porsche know that you took your 911 or what have you on the track?

    Jul 1, 2004 10:01:16 PM

    brunner
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    Reply to: 1RAGE

    Re: Autoweek article on voiding warranties if a car is tracked

    Usage pattern recorded in black boxes around the car

    Jul 1, 2004 10:07:25 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: 1RAGE

    Re: Autoweek article on voiding warranties if a car is tracked

    Quote:
    1RAGE said:
    How would Porsche know that you took your 911 or what have you on the track?





    One way is if they see you there Alot of dealer service employees frequent the track. Usually, they're happy to see you there, but if you make an enemy of them (or do something really stupid on the track), then it's trouble

    Jul 1, 2004 11:33:59 PM

    1RAGE
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    Reply to: brunner

    Re: Autoweek article on voiding warranties if a car is tracked

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Usage pattern recorded in black boxes around the car



    I don't think the warranty would say how you must drive it, other than within the law and rules of the road. I doubt that would hold up in court anyway because that would be infringement of privacy (possibly, don't quote me on it though).
     
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