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    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Word.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    wantone:

    I've driven in the US and my average speed was 65. No cameras, true, but there are state troopers everywhere. I don't see how and do not know anybody who can maintain high speeds (>120mph) for more than a few seconds.

    You have not driven here all your life and I doubt you have crossed the wide open plains. The answer is a valentine one and good reflexes. I have averaged 86 mph to Montreal over 18 hours. I doubt you could find enough open autobahn for that distance and average. It takes a lot of speed to maintain that type of average. 

    Merry Christmas. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    A simple LIDAR laser gun will tag your speed in 0,3seconds and the officer can hide behind anywere with it and pick you off between traffic from up to a 1000m or more distance, I doubt your reflexes will detect, and shave off 60mph in less than that. Just point and shoot, very simple, I have used them myself. I think you have just been lucky and probably speed enforcement is not a priority in the few roads you specifically used, but by no way extend that to the US, or even the mid-west, I have seen them in places like Iowa or Illinois...


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    I would suggest that non resident aliens visiting the US do not attempt to create their own autobahn. Over 90 mph you can face charges of not just speeding but also reckless endangerment, reckless driving, arrest, excessive bail or no bail because as a foreigner you could be judged as a flight risk, and suffer confiscation of cash, credit cards, cell phones for investigation, etc..that will leave you broke and stranded.

    All traffic court judges are locally elected or appointed and usually eager to convict. However if you are stopped you are under no duty to admit to any lawbreaking, but over 100 what ever cop is chasing your will be thinking is that the vehicle is stolen and or driven by drunk or a meth head. few states let police estimate speed by visual observation but so many state police agencies use a myriad of unmarked cars, lidar, aircraft,  now that unless you get really lucky it would be extremely risky to drive at over 100 for more than a few moments unless you are so far out in the sticks that the only officer covering that area is drinking coffee miles away. But so many drivers and truckers will snitch you out so dont  think that passing at hi speed won't get you noticed. Merry Xmas.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Speed limit in Colorado is 80. You can drive 90 to 100 all day long on the high plains. Just saying. 

    That being said it is always good to really pay attention to clues around you and try to not be the only one around going fast. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Everyone has different skills, road choice, invisibility levels and risk reward, but Sun's run very much harder for 30 years across the west with only rare discussions with the bad guys.

    And great states like Utah, have trivial fines for very high speedskiss 

    Stay invisible in 2016winksmiley

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Leawood911:

    Speed limit in Colorado is 80. You can drive 90 to 100 all day long on the high plains. Just saying. 

    That being said it is always good to really pay attention to clues around you and try to not be the only one around going fast. 

    And , most important, you need super 200% vision  to see behind the trees Smiley


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 /  997.2 C2 ,  -20mm /  991 GT3 RS 

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Glad I'm not hounded by speed cameras like in Switzerland.

    basically you guys are indicating that except for the Autobahn fast cars are wasted and we are all fools for buying them?   Wow. That makes for a lot of fools. Can't argue with numbers so it must be true.

    'Cheers


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Personally what I'm saying is that US highways (i.e. what you use on long distance trips) are the last place were you would want to speed; low speed limits with heavy arbitrary speedtrap enforcement with heavy fines and even jail, very very poor drivers sharing the highway without any lane discipline whatsoever or skills, often poor highway road surfaces, etc.

    But you can enjoy your car on winding low traffic roads that are present in many areas of the US kiss


    --

     

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Gnil, Just what trees in most of Wyoming, Kansas, Nebraska, Utah etc are you talking about?  There aren't many. You can hit some high numbers out there. Someone here used to commute 60 miles from ft Collins Colorado to Cheyenne Wyoming in 30 min or less.

    As for going fast into blind corners on windy roads,  forget it. Having seen that done and watching a sheriff standing in the road at a accident scene almost get run over I wouldn't advise it. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    JimFlat6:

    Gnil, Just what trees in most of Wyoming, Kansas, Nebraska, Utah etc are you talking about?  There aren't many. You can hit some high numbers out there. Someone here used to commute 60 miles from ft Collins Colorado to Cheyenne Wyoming in 30 min or less.

    I was just making a joke by referring to RC' s super vision he often used to mention  , where he can see speed traps where no one else can see them Smiley

    Behind rocks counts the same Smiley

    If you know your country you can speed anywhere for short periods of time without being caught . You just need to know when and where .

    As to Leawoods comment about our cars being wasted ...... yes, probably for most of the time, but the times they are not are worth all the others .


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 /  997.2 C2 ,  -20mm /  991 GT3 RS 

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Ok, I thought you had discovered a new forest in western Nebraska. indecision  

    No one on rennteam ever speeds anyway. smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Gnil:
    Leawood911:

    Speed limit in Colorado is 80. You can drive 90 to 100 all day long on the high plains. Just saying. 

    That being said it is always good to really pay attention to clues around you and try to not be the only one around going fast. 

    And , most important, you need super 200% vision  to see behind the trees Smiley

     

    Thanks god I have only 175%, otherwise I may have felt offended by your post. Smiley

    Btw: I never lost my driver's license, I don't have any points on it and I do not use any technical devices for detecting speed traps. Just saying...you can make fun of it all day long but if you have an ophthalmologist you know, just ask him. This is a fact.  Smiley Only issue I have is with video surveillance cars driving behind me but I got this one figured out as well since they need to drive at least 300 m at a certified (longer) distance to make the measurement. Looking into the rear view mirror helps. Smiley

    As to driving in the US: In Utah, there is a 80 mph speed limit and I drove at 95 mph most of the time (adjusting to traffic flow), sometimes even hit 100 mph and I saw two highway patrol cars passing from the other direction and one even in our direction, no issues whatsoever. When the traffic flows, the cops usually don't seem to care. In Florida, I usually drive at 80-85 mph on the Turnpike because this is the speed most cars drive at (traffic flow). Sometimes we all hit 90 but not often.

    Driving 120 or more in the US is a different story but I can see how a driver could do that for a couple of seconds on a deserted road he knows well. Still, I'm not so sure I would risk it because especially as a tourist, you may end up with a court date and the need to fly back to the US not to miss it. Not worth it. 

    Unlike in the US, the German speed traps are always stationary (with the exception of the mentioned video surveillance cars driving behind you but you can spot them if you pay attention). Stationary means I can spot them from far away. Biggest risk in that regard are laser traps but the police officers usually stay with their laser mounted on a mount in the middle of a parking lot, so they are really easy to spot from far away. If you have 175% vision sharpness. Smiley Smiley

    Oh, I might have only 150% now according to my latest eye exam but the doctor wasn't sure because I usually wear contacts and this time, I was wearing glasses and they weren't exactly the right "strength" because I never exchanged the glasses for the past ten years or so. The eyes adapt to the glasses and the measurement may not have been 100% correct.

    Btw: Making fun of that vision sharpness doesn't make you exactly look like a bright person because this is a fact, not something I made up.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

     

     

    Thanks god I have only 175%, otherwise I may have felt offended by your post. Smiley

    Btw: I never lost my driver's license, I don't have any points on it and I do not use any technical devices for detecting speed traps. Just saying...you can make fun of it all day long but if you have an ophthalmologist you know, just ask him. This is a fact.  Smiley 

    Btw: Making fun of that vision sharpness doesn't make you exactly look like a bright person because this is a fact, not something I made up.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     

    I am not making fun of your 175 % , maybe I understand more then what you think about this sharpness. Smiley

    I have now , at 49 year old , 150 %. And this is also a fact Smiley

    lit is just the way it came across at the time . Don t take it personally. 

    But even with my 150 % I can not spot their latest gun when they hide behind a tree ( and only the gun and a little part of the cops face , one side of the shoulder and sometimes a leg sticks out ). I actually spot them, but too late Smiley


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 /  997.2 C2 ,  -20mm /  991 GT3 RS 

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Joking aside, its not superman vision anyways, its just a comnparative measure of the visual acuity and just how sharp you can see an object at a distance. This however does not grant you special seeing abilities. The area in the field of vision were you have this shapness of vision is  extremely small, its not you full visual field as the rest is concerned with the perception of movemente and has very little contarst vision and no color. So is the object is out of were you are focused at looking, vision acuity will not help you at all.

    Also you cannot scan 100% of the field of vision 100% of the time, you only see what your brain directs its attention to, and when driving there will be many things you will be scanning (cars around you, your position with respect to the road, the instrument pannel, the mirrors, the road ahead of you, etc) and many many things you will not see because you cannot focus on everything at the same time.

    Even more, there will be many things that you will be were you are looking at but your brain will not "see" at a concious level because its processing other objects at that time and that object may not be deemed important enough to process compared to the others, its called inattention blindness.

    So visual sharpness will help you define an object you are focusing at from a "bit" greater distance, but thats it, nothing more. It will not let you detect speedtraps that are hidden, or even those that are not hidden but you basically did not focus on.

    If there is a cop behind a tree or a behind a hill top pointing a simple laser gun at you, no amount of visual acuity will save you because the cop ambushing through the scope you will see you way before you ever get to see him if you even do (give me a laser gun and I guarantee I will clock anyone here before they see me). If there is a light barrier based  laser device (ex: Autovelox) set up behind a car, rock or a road sign, you will not see it cause visual acuity will not let you see through objects. If there is a simple radar (Multanova/Multaradar) installed in an unmarqued parked car pointing in the direction of traffic amongst othe parked cars or on a tripod behind a sign or a garbage container, you will not see it cause without a detector you can only see it once you passed it in the rear view after it clocked you. And so on. We even have helicopters here in Spain with a sophisticated camera-laser system (wescam mx-15) that can clock your speed from the air far away, good luck trying to see the helicopter from a far above in the sky from any direction.

    It's more about luck, the type of speed enforcement in your area,  if you can use counter measure devices or not and what their limitations are, etc. but especially above all IMO is paying attention to the clues (like knowing how and were they use speedtraps, which cars with radars they use (models/license-plates), knowing how the different speedtrap systems in the area work and their limitations, etc.). But good visual acuity plays an insignificant role in all of that compared to someone with average visual acuity and no visual problems who pays attention to the clues, if you have had good luck avoiding traps is more because you are good at the latter, and of course some luck too.


    --

     

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     



    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    The BMW sounds better than the Porsche or the GTR


    --

     

     

    2016 Carrera 4 GTS Jet Black,

     

    2016 Macan Turbo Agata Grey,

    2012 Infiniti G370 Grey,

    2007 Mercedes E550 silver,


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    The computer sound?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Gnil:
     

     

    Thanks god I have only 175%, otherwise I may have felt offended by your post. Smiley

    Btw: I never lost my driver's license, I don't have any points on it and I do not use any technical devices for detecting speed traps. Just saying...you can make fun of it all day long but if you have an ophthalmologist you know, just ask him. This is a fact.  Smiley 

    Btw: Making fun of that vision sharpness doesn't make you exactly look like a bright person because this is a fact, not something I made up.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     

    I am not making fun of your 175 % , maybe I understand more then what you think about this sharpness. Smiley

    I have now , at 49 year old , 150 %. And this is also a fact Smiley

    lit is just the way it came across at the time . Don t take it personally. 

    But even with my 150 % I can not spot their latest gun when they hide behind a tree ( and only the gun and a little part of the cops face , one side of the shoulder and sometimes a leg sticks out ). I actually spot them, but too late Smiley


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 /  997.2 C2 ,  -20mm /  991 GT3 RS 

     

    If you spot them too late, maybe you're too fast. Smiley I cannot "beat" them if I drive 40-50 kph over the legal speed limit, my "method" only works at 20-30 kph, tops. Especially if they are using laser guns. Hiding behind obstacles is not something they do here usually (I think this could be considered a "trap" but this doesn't mean it couldn't or doesn't happen), also the police is using laser guns over here mainly during warmer periods of time.

    Also, there is a simple method not to get caught: Driving within the legal speed limit. Smiley I usually respect the speed limit because I do not have to pay attention to every little detail happening on the right side of the road or in my rear view mirror (which can be very stressful).

    Oh, I forgot to mention the most "vicious" speed trap method of all: A video camera installed in the back of a (usually) van with a dark tinted window. You basically see the camera only if you look carefully when you have already been "caught". German police uses this questionable method on roads with speed limits of 30 kph or lower. So the camera basically video tapes the whole traffic and an automated software then "extracts" the offenders from the video. This is done selective and automatically, so it doesn't fall under the category "permanent surveillance" which would be illegal in Germany (not that the police or any judge seems to care Smiley). Also they started some section control speed traps in Germany, something very common in Austria where they basically start the measurement at the beginning of a section of the road and end the measurement at the end of that section. If you are too fast (speed measured by the time you needed to drive through that section of the road), you're good to pay.

    The most dangerous type is the video surveillance car though. I had such a car follow me twice and I am pretty sure only because I drive a Porsche because they followed me for over 8-9 km, which is very unusual, especially if you haven't done anything. The first time, they wanted to bust me for "grober Unfug" ( speed limit was 60 and when I spotted them and noticed that they do not back off after a couple of kms, I dropped the speed to 40 kph and they stopped me, trying to give me a ticket but they failed...I disputed the ticket and didn't have to pay). The second time, a single police officer (usually there are two) followed me and at some point, I felt threatened (he made every turn I made) and tried to evade (and actually did, that moron didn't have a clue how to drive). He caught me on a parking lot where he almost hit two pedestrians with his car and the blue light on the top. Very aggressive behavior, he didn't allow me to put on my jacket, it was pretty cold and he accused me of driving 65 kph in a 30 kph zone but he didn't realize that the road had a 50 kph speed limit, despite it being pretty narrow and in the city. Smiley Long story short: I ended up in court, got a 60 EUR or 60 DM fine (judge didn't see any offense from my side, just the 15 kph over the speed limit which that guy caught on camera), the police officer LIED that I was driving reckless and starting off from standstill with screeching tires (which was impossible because I had a 996 C4 at that time) because he needed a motif to follow me and after the judge sent me home, I eavesdropped Smiley through the closed door and heard how the judge disciplined the police officer because he believed me apparently and not him. Not sure what happened to that police officer but I am pretty sure that the judge didn't suspend him or whatever, which is a shame. He deserved it.

    Sorry for the long post but my experience with those video surveillance cars is really bad because the police officers in these cars have a certain attitude. Never had issues with police patrol cars and regular police officers. When I was young (around 20), I was driving at night at around 3 am in the city at 160 kph Smiley and a patrol car followed us and stopped me after a couple of kms (I didn't see the blue lights and he didn't use his siren not to wake up people). The police officers asked me if I drank any alcohol, one of them smelled my breath, I had to show my car documents and they opened the trunk and then they asked me if I accept a 10(!) DM fine (which is basically 5 EUR). Oh boy did I accept that fine, they were really OK. Had similar experiences with uniformed officers in other situations, never had problems with them.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Miami Blue 4S at the dealer. I must say the reear lights work much better in 4-guise. Widebody helps it stand out as well...

    1451467966258image.jpeg


    --

    2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2013 MINI John Cooper Works GP / 2014 BMW Alpina D3 biturbo Touring


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Yes, the new tail lights work better with the AWD models and that light strip in the middle. kiss


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    I'm still struggling with the central exhausts.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    crayphile:

    I'm still struggling with the central exhausts.

    I love them! It's the Turbo-Turbo ones that I cant wrap my head around.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Porker:

    Miami Blue 4S at the dealer. I must say the reear lights work much better in 4-guise. Widebody helps it stand out as well...

    1451467966258image.jpeg

    Yep - by look the 4 wheeler is much better. Just never been a fan of driving it. The front feels much lighter on the 2 wheeler and it feels much more "Porscheristic". However - I guess it is time to get the 4-runner from now on. Too many things changed in the Porsche evolution, so buying the 4-runner over the 2-runner is just a logical step


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    So what was the sticker on that thing?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Lars997:

    Yep - by look the 4 wheeler is much better. Just never been a fan of driving it. The front feels much lighter on the 2 wheeler and it feels much more "Porscheristic". However - I guess it is time to get the 4-runner from now on. Too many things changed in the Porsche evolution, so buying the 4-runner over the 2-runner is just a logical step

    That makes me wonder - if you accept the 4wd as this logical step anyway, and are not that keen on the turbo-ization of the 911, then are some buyers more likely to more seriously look at the base R8 (don't know how Eur prices compare with a typically optioned C4S)? 


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    4trac:
    Lars997:

    Yep - by look the 4 wheeler is much better. Just never been a fan of driving it. The front feels much lighter on the 2 wheeler and it feels much more "Porscheristic". However - I guess it is time to get the 4-runner from now on. Too many things changed in the Porsche evolution, so buying the 4-runner over the 2-runner is just a logical step

    That makes me wonder - if you accept the 4wd as this logical step anyway, and are not that keen on the turbo-ization of the 911, then are some buyers more likely to more seriously look at the base R8 (don't know how Eur prices compare with a typically optioned C4S)? 

    I just say - the classic Porsche feel (and I already can feel that in my 356 Speedster) is a light front end, a heavy rear with power from behind. The 2wd has all of that, the 4wd is just to heavy in the front and traction comes from the front. But - the car gets from model to model more balanced, my 991 - I never really liked much, it felt like driving a Mercedes C Class or a BMW 3 and not like a Porsche. The car is way too perfect, too precise and way too balanced. With the new generation the NA is gone, so what I'm saying - seeing this evolution the next logical step is to buy a 4wd. If I sacrifice all the lightness and sportiness of a sports car and I accept to buy "perfect luxury" than I go also for the last step and buy a 4wd.

    The R8 is a different story. At least in Germany the image is very weak. It is an Audi and we discussed this many times, an Audi is a VW and that means by word the car for the folks. So it doesn't come with the premium image. It is a solid car, but the brand is not luxurious at all. So I know I step on many feets of some Audi fans, but we discussed this over and over again with friends and car enthusiasts- before any of them would buy an R8 they would go for any other luxury sports car. A R8 V10 is from the price very close to a Lambo Gallardo or Huracan, so why would you seriously buy an R8? If you go for used cars it might be a different story as you will get hell of a car for relatively good money. 

    Second - the 911 buyers buy the 911 because it is a Porsche. 90% don't care about speed, better performance, light front ends, better torque or whatever. They just want to buy Luxury. They buy some emotions, feeling young and fast, feeling like "being able to afford", etc. Again my previous point - you want a Luxury car and not a car of the folks and you want to show it. So I don't think that a R8 ever will compete with a Porsche. The buyer segment is very specific (and don't think about us here in RT - we are all car enthusiasts and probably buy out of different reasons).


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Lars997:
    4trac:
    Lars997:

    Yep - by look the 4 wheeler is much better. Just never been a fan of driving it. The front feels much lighter on the 2 wheeler and it feels much more "Porscheristic". However - I guess it is time to get the 4-runner from now on. Too many things changed in the Porsche evolution, so buying the 4-runner over the 2-runner is just a logical step

    That makes me wonder - if you accept the 4wd as this logical step anyway, and are not that keen on the turbo-ization of the 911, then are some buyers more likely to more seriously look at the base R8 (don't know how Eur prices compare with a typically optioned C4S)? 

    I just say - the classic Porsche feel (and I already can feel that in my 356 Speedster) is a light front end, a heavy rear with power from behind. The 2wd has all of that, the 4wd is just to heavy in the front and traction comes from the front. But - the car gets from model to model more balanced, my 991 - I never really liked much, it felt like driving a Mercedes C Class or a BMW 3 and not like a Porsche. The car is way too perfect, too precise and way too balanced. With the new generation the NA is gone, so what I'm saying - seeing this evolution the next logical step is to buy a 4wd. If I sacrifice all the lightness and sportiness of a sports car and I accept to buy "perfect luxury" than I go also for the last step and buy a 4wd.

    I think your 2WD vs 4WD logic flow makes perfect sense and also highlights why the GT range and the R are now even more attractive than they would have been otherwise. Also reinforces in my mind why I am going for the Singer .


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    crayphile:
    Lars997:
    4trac:
    Lars997:

    Yep - by look the 4 wheeler is much better. Just never been a fan of driving it. The front feels much lighter on the 2 wheeler and it feels much more "Porscheristic". However - I guess it is time to get the 4-runner from now on. Too many things changed in the Porsche evolution, so buying the 4-runner over the 2-runner is just a logical step

    That makes me wonder - if you accept the 4wd as this logical step anyway, and are not that keen on the turbo-ization of the 911, then are some buyers more likely to more seriously look at the base R8 (don't know how Eur prices compare with a typically optioned C4S)? 

    I just say - the classic Porsche feel (and I already can feel that in my 356 Speedster) is a light front end, a heavy rear with power from behind. The 2wd has all of that, the 4wd is just to heavy in the front and traction comes from the front. But - the car gets from model to model more balanced, my 991 - I never really liked much, it felt like driving a Mercedes C Class or a BMW 3 and not like a Porsche. The car is way too perfect, too precise and way too balanced. With the new generation the NA is gone, so what I'm saying - seeing this evolution the next logical step is to buy a 4wd. If I sacrifice all the lightness and sportiness of a sports car and I accept to buy "perfect luxury" than I go also for the last step and buy a 4wd.

    I think your 2WD vs 4WD logic flow makes perfect sense and also highlights why the GT range and the R are now even more attractive than they would have been otherwise. Also reinforces in my mind why I am going for the Singer .

    100% if that car would be lower priced I would jump on it, too! The fun of driving is milestones above any new car! Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Lars997:
    crayphile:
    Lars997:
    4trac:
    Also reinforces in my mind why I am going for the Singer .

    100% if that car would be lower priced I would jump on it, too! The fun of driving is milestones above any new car! Smiley

    +1 . 

    If the price would be lower , I would also go for it . 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 /  997.2 C2 ,  -20mm /  991 GT3 RS 


     
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