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    Re: CGT Track Crash Analysis--What Really Happened?

    Quote:
    RC said:
    We should consider ourselves very lucky that we are still here and are able to exchange our thoughts.



    Yes indeed, aren't you all feeling lucky I'm still here and able to give you my brilliant thoughts?

    Re: CGT Track Crash Analysis--What Really Happened?

    The car in front of Ben story came from IMHO a questionable post on Ferrarichat right after the accident. A gentleman claimed to have been at the track at the time of the accident, gave a quick rundown of the "facts," and then claimed that he would not entertain any questions from the other members of Ferrarichat (last time I checked). That last part made me wonder about the whole story, reminding me of people in the Washington, DC metro area, who told the police that they saw or had info regarding the DC snipers. They lied. At least one of them served jail time for wasting the police officers' time. I won't go into the psychology of a person like that (making up bogus stories), but I will say that they are out there. I have no idea what really happened. I wish someone did.

    Re: CGT Track Crash Analysis--What Really Happened?

    "Regarding Ben: I don't know him but I wish I knew him personally. It is sad that I never go the chance to speak to somebody THAT passionate regarding cars."

    Tell you what RC. I'm beyond passionate about cars, but I've never met you. Next time you are in DC (or next week when I'm in Miami) or the next time I'm in southern Germany (and I may be moving back by the end of this year if all goes as planned), let us take taxis to the local bar and get wasted on our favorite drinks (1st round on me). Let us become close friends so that when I get whacked some day, you will cry for me and build me a tribute on this site. That would be cool! I want lots of pictures of beautiful women next to 997s as well. LOTS! Puss-in-Boots gets to pick them (he has good taste--well, same taste as me anyway, hahaha). Jenna gets to do my eulogy. That way I know for sure that everyone will read it! I'm serious about the drinking ourselves silly part (phone number being sent to you now for safe keeping).

    Re: CGT Track Crash Analysis--What Really Happened?

    "High speed driving doesn't require only experience, it requires certain skills and a SAFETY PARANOIA. I'm very very "anal" about my tires and the technical condition of my car. I also learned to anticipate the reaction of other drivers around me, this is actually the MOST DIFFICULT part of driving. Call it instinct, call it experience, call it luck, whatever. "

    RC, Ben was one of my best friends and this could have been his statement ... just what you said. He was a very safe driver and didn't like excessive speed overall. He was confident enough to toss around the "half million dollar" at speed so his skills were beyond most.

    I witnessed the entire crash sequence from 200 feet away. What triggered it was the location of the track entrance combined with lack of a marshal and no cones to mark the entry zone. If Ben had hit the Ferrari (as someone suggested) he may have survived. The Ferrari was not on the track (in front of him) but entering.

    Holminator I made the post you referenced copied to Ferrarichat. Ben and Corey's families may pursuit legal options so I don't think it's appropriate to "court marshal" this case on the web. Nick, if you are collecting info (for legal reasons) please PM me and we'll get together. I was looking for you at Bens' service but don't believe you were there.

    Re: CGT Track Crash Analysis--What Really Happened?

    Quartermile, roger. Got it (point taken). Thanks for being a gentleman about it. You are a better man than me.

    One question: Is it a good idea to be announcing this information on Ferrarichat if litigation is or will be pending and you will be a part of that scenario?

    Re: CGT Track Crash Analysis--What Really Happened?

    Quote:

    RC, Ben was one of my best friends and this could have been his statement ... just what you said. He was a very safe driver and didn't like excessive speed overall. He was confident enough to toss around the "half million dollar" at speed so his skills were beyond most.

    I witnessed the entire crash sequence from 200 feet away. What triggered it was the location of the track entrance combined with lack of a marshal and no cones to mark the entry zone. If Ben had hit the Ferrari (as someone suggested) he may have survived. The Ferrari was not on the track (in front of him) but entering.

    Holminator I made the post you referenced copied to Ferrarichat. Ben and Corey's families may pursuit legal options so I don't think it's appropriate to "court marshal" this case on the web. Nick, if you are collecting info (for legal reasons) please PM me and we'll get together. I was looking for you at Bens' service but don't believe you were there.




    From what I know few drivers are capable of driving the CGT at its limits and those that can won't do so without significant upgrades in safety devices.
    You failed to mention why Ben was even out on the track at this particular time since the checker was already out. Most of us who track cars respect the rules, he apparently didn't in this case. Also Ben didn't follow directions about where his car was to be on the pit out straight.

    Some points made in regard to this "accident" from another web board.

    1) The oval was not in use. They were only using the infield.
    (2) The accident took place just past the bridge by a small access road that is used to enter the track from the pit, if you're only using the infield.
    (3) Ben was allegedly going over 160 mph after the bridge --this is pretty incredible for such a relatively short straight following such a slow turn.
    (4) Participants were told to stay to the right just in case traffic was entering from the pit to the left.
    (5) Ben was to the left, not the right.
    (6) Ben was in the midst of an extra lap (they weren't supposed to take) after his run group had finished.
    (7) The individual who organized the event was directing cars from the pit to the track and probably made a mistake in letting another car out when Ben was still on the track --he probably, mistakenly thought everyone was off the track as they were supposed to have been.


    Seems to me that Ben put his own safety and that of his passenger in serious disregard and calling the whole thing an accident is far from accurate.

    Re: CGT Track Crash Analysis--What Really Happened?

    I am not advocating legal action but Ben would have wanted this if he was still alive. He could have been rear-ended by a SUV at a stop light just the same. I'll try to address some of the points as generically as possible.


    "From what I know few drivers are capable of driving the CGT at its limits and those that can won't do so without significant upgrades in safety devices."

    That would be true of any of the cars there that day. Any of the cars could have been at the starting grid in Le Mans a decade ago. Anyone of us could have been killed that day just the same. We weren't racing or nearly testing the limits of the cars.


    "You failed to mention why Ben was even out on the track at this particular time since the checker was already out. Most of us who track cars respect the rules, he apparently didn't in this case. Also Ben didn't follow directions about where his car was to be on the pit out straight. "

    You probably meant this as a question not a statement. The checker was out for the previous session not ours. Nobody broke any rules or disregard instructions I can think of.


    Some points made in regard to this "accident" from another web board.

    1) The oval was not in use. They were only using the infield.

    True. The oval was originally part of the plan, but the attendance was too low to justify the cost.

    (2) The accident took place just past the bridge by a small access road that is used to enter the track from the pit, if you're only using the infield.

    There are many places you can enter or exit the infield, the access road being one of them. I am not an expert on this track but it seems the access road was either a dumb choice or inappropriately used. It would be similar to injecting slow traffic onto a 150MPH zone on an autobahn, from the left with no warning, etc.


    (3) Ben was allegedly going over 160 mph after the bridge --this is pretty incredible for such a relatively short straight following such a slow turn.

    Just for reference my speed out of 13 was probably 70MPH and averaged 140MPH in the braking zone for turn 1.


    (4) Participants were told to stay to the right just in case traffic was entering from the pit to the left.

    We were told passing anywhere on the straight, left or right at anytime. If the entrance was simply coned off this disaster could have been avoided.


    (5) Ben was to the left, not the right.

    The braking zone cones were on the left side and everyone in our group used the same line. We would drift left near the end of the straight into the braking zone, brake hard slightly trailing into turn 1.

    (6) Ben was in the midst of an extra lap (they weren't supposed to take) after his run group had finished.

    This is simply false, we were in the same group waiting in the pit.

    (7) The individual who organized the event was directing cars from the pit to the track and probably made a mistake in letting another car out when Ben was still on the track --he probably, mistakenly thought everyone was off the track as they were supposed to have been.

    I don't know what the organizer was doing but nobody was at the track entrance. Directing traffic from the pit is like having a cop on an intersection with a broken light .. but at the sidewalk.


    "Seems to me that Ben put his own safety and that of his passenger in serious disregard and calling the whole thing an accident is far from accurate."

    You are entitled to your opinion but at least 5 people witnessed what really happened.

    Re: CGT Track Crash Analysis--What Really Happened?

    Any updates on this? Was there an official crash reconstruction or analysis?

     
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