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    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    arakis said:
    relax, Ferrari fans, they are just blowing steam. Becouse 599 gtb (turbos real contender) will blow every porsche for years to come away. As for the 430 it is going to be damed close to turbos performance, in my opinion on some (non german mag) tracks even faster but thats my opinion. as For the every day driving 360 and 430 have shown to be exelent every day drivers. and preaty damed reliable too.

    Turbo will in my opinion will have generaly better perf, but then I'd be preaty damed embaresed for porsche if it wasnt. Its a 3.6 l turbo Vtg 680 Nm beast ws 460Nm 4.3 l Atmo, no comparison there. as for the price u cant compere price/performance on hi level cars like porsche and ferrari. If u want price/perf by a suoped up Nissan.




    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    arakis said:
    relax, Ferrari fans, they are just blowing steam. Becouse 599 gtb (turbos real contender)



    you mean that the 599 which is double the price is turbo real contender?
    dont tell me that the 430 is boxters real contender?

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    RC said: I hope the 997 Turbo is faster and I actually think it is but the F430 is a great car too




    The fact that one can only HOPE (!) that the 997TT is faster than the F430 shows how miserable a car the 997TT is (in particular with manual gear shift).

    I still cannot understand how Porsche could present such a disappointing car.

    You need an out-dated tiptronic to improve straight-line performance in lower speed ranges. However, you then have to accept that the Tip ruins the driving experience.

    Porsche is on its way down.



    MKSGR, don't worry! Dr. Phil (the Danish one, not the guy from TV ) said that the Turbo S will be here sooner than expected. That ought to cheer you up (and me too ).
    Btw, what does MKSGR mean anyway?
    Muss mit Keinen Sorgen Gefährlich Rennen?



    I hope that you and Dr. Phil are right! I would be among the very first customers of a 997TT with PDK and powerkit (turboS...)

    My concern with the 997TT is that the car lacks the competitive advantage typcial for previous turbo generations. How should such a car survive the next five years? Competition will kill it.

    Thinking back of the 993TT or even the 996TT makes me wonder: these cars were really ahead of their competition. The 997TT (as introduced to date) is a mediocre compromise. Nothing more.

    P.S.: I am not sure either what MKSGR stands for - I use it for historical reasons only

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    Outlaw_Hawk said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:


    The fact that one can only HOPE (!) that the 997TT is faster than the F430 shows how miserable a car the 997TT is (in particular with manual gear shift).
    I still cannot understand how Porsche could present such a disappointing car.




    so if we think that the 997TT is faster than the F430 that means the 997TT is miserable?

    and if the 997TT performance figure is better than the F430 that makes it such a disappointing car?



    We are talking of a brand new Porsche turbo which is (maybe) slightly faster than the two year old F430. Besides, the 997TT is only marginally quicker than the 3-4 year old 996TTx50/996TTS.

    Yes, that is exactly what I call a major disappointment

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    RC said: I hope the 997 Turbo is faster and I actually think it is but the F430 is a great car too




    The fact that one can only HOPE (!) that the 997TT is faster than the F430 shows how miserable a car the 997TT is (in particular with manual gear shift).

    I still cannot understand how Porsche could present such a disappointing car.

    You need an out-dated tiptronic to improve straight-line performance in lower speed ranges. However, you then have to accept that the Tip ruins the driving experience.

    Porsche is on its way down.



    MKSGR, don't worry! Dr. Phil (the Danish one, not the guy from TV ) said that the Turbo S will be here sooner than expected. That ought to cheer you up (and me too ).
    Btw, what does MKSGR mean anyway?
    Muss mit Keinen Sorgen Gefährlich Rennen?



    I hope that you and Dr. Phil are right! I would be among the very first customers of a 997TT with PDK and powerkit (turboS...)

    My concern with the 997TT is that the car lacks the competitive advantage typcial for previous turbo generations. How should such a car survive the next five years? Competition will kill it.

    Thinking back of the 993TT or even the 996TT makes me wonder: these cars were really ahead of their competition. The 997TT (as introduced to date) is a mediocre compromise. Nothing more.

    P.S.: I am not sure either what MKSGR stands for - I use it for historical reasons only



    True. Looking at the 993, the car was still on top when the 996TT came out. The Ferrari barely managed to level the playing field with the 360, by the time the old Turbo was four years old already.
    Now I truly hope that we are both wrong and that the 997TT will be a spectacular performer (factory numbers probably ARE conservative), but if we know the Turbo S is coming and can afford to wait another year or so, why not?

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    Quote:
    rhino said:
    The antagonizer is back, cheers



    For a person that has never even owned a Porsche you sure talk a lot.

    Just as an FYI... MKSGR has been an ardent supporter of Porsche. You wouldn't know that though since you obviously have your own agenda.

    The reason some of us voice our concern for Porsche's products is because we don't want them to be superceded by their competitors. It is not to belittle or make the brand lesser. We hope Porsche's people peruse these boards and come away with a better understanding of some of their customers' concerns.



    SoCalHoosier,

    today, I think you and others (like JimFlat et al.) were right when challenging Porsche by the Corvette Z06 rumours etc.

    Porsche needs more pressure from customers to prevent things like the 997TT.

    I told my dealer very clearly what I think of the recent model news from Porsche He knows that he will not sell a car like this to me.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    RC said: I hope the 997 Turbo is faster and I actually think it is but the F430 is a great car too




    The fact that one can only HOPE (!) that the 997TT is faster than the F430 shows how miserable a car the 997TT is (in particular with manual gear shift).

    I still cannot understand how Porsche could present such a disappointing car.

    You need an out-dated tiptronic to improve straight-line performance in lower speed ranges. However, you then have to accept that the Tip ruins the driving experience.

    Porsche is on its way down.



    MKSGR, don't worry! Dr. Phil (the Danish one, not the guy from TV ) said that the Turbo S will be here sooner than expected. That ought to cheer you up (and me too ).
    Btw, what does MKSGR mean anyway?
    Muss mit Keinen Sorgen Gefährlich Rennen?



    I hope that you and Dr. Phil are right! I would be among the very first customers of a 997TT with PDK and powerkit (turboS...)

    My concern with the 997TT is that the car lacks the competitive advantage typcial for previous turbo generations. How should such a car survive the next five years? Competition will kill it.

    Thinking back of the 993TT or even the 996TT makes me wonder: these cars were really ahead of their competition. The 997TT (as introduced to date) is a mediocre compromise. Nothing more.

    P.S.: I am not sure either what MKSGR stands for - I use it for historical reasons only



    True. Looking at the 993, the car was still on top when the 996TT came out. The Ferrari barely managed to level the playing field with the 360, by the time the old Turbo was four years old already.
    Now I truly hope that we are both wrong and that the 997TT will be a spectacular performer (factory numbers probably ARE conservative), but if we know the Turbo S is coming and can afford to wait another year or so, why not?



    Maybe the two of us will be the first turboS customers

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    Quote:
    rhino said:
    The antagonizer is back, cheers



    For a person that has never even owned a Porsche you sure talk a lot.

    Just as an FYI... MKSGR has been an ardent supporter of Porsche. You wouldn't know that though since you obviously have your own agenda.

    The reason some of us voice our concern for Porsche's products is because we don't want them to be superceded by their competitors. It is not to belittle or make the brand lesser. We hope Porsche's people peruse these boards and come away with a better understanding of some of their customers' concerns.



    SoCalHoosier,

    today, I think you and others (like JimFlat et al.) were right when challenging Porsche by the Corvette Z06 rumours etc.

    Porsche needs more pressure from customers to prevent things like the 997TT.

    I told my dealer very clearly what I think of the recent model news from Porsche He knows that he will not sell a car like this to me.



    "Herr MKSGR, ve haf been auforized to offer you a full warranty for any ant all tuening you might vant to perform on your vehicle. NOW vill you pleaze buy ze stupid car?"

    But seriously, as much as we defended Porsche prior to the press release, the critics were right. Porsche needs to be reminded that it's all well to run a business, but throwing away the heritage of the flagship as the undisputed performance king isn't a smart move IMO. It's also not that much about the power as it is about transmissions for me. I never thought I'd see the day when an automatic would be faster than a manual - in a PORSCHE, nonetheless.
    That leaves the PDK to literally save the car's image.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    RC said: I hope the 997 Turbo is faster and I actually think it is but the F430 is a great car too




    The fact that one can only HOPE (!) that the 997TT is faster than the F430 shows how miserable a car the 997TT is (in particular with manual gear shift).

    I still cannot understand how Porsche could present such a disappointing car.

    You need an out-dated tiptronic to improve straight-line performance in lower speed ranges. However, you then have to accept that the Tip ruins the driving experience.

    Porsche is on its way down.



    MKSGR, don't worry! Dr. Phil (the Danish one, not the guy from TV ) said that the Turbo S will be here sooner than expected. That ought to cheer you up (and me too ).
    Btw, what does MKSGR mean anyway?
    Muss mit Keinen Sorgen Gefährlich Rennen?



    I hope that you and Dr. Phil are right! I would be among the very first customers of a 997TT with PDK and powerkit (turboS...)

    My concern with the 997TT is that the car lacks the competitive advantage typcial for previous turbo generations. How should such a car survive the next five years? Competition will kill it.

    Thinking back of the 993TT or even the 996TT makes me wonder: these cars were really ahead of their competition. The 997TT (as introduced to date) is a mediocre compromise. Nothing more.

    P.S.: I am not sure either what MKSGR stands for - I use it for historical reasons only



    True. Looking at the 993, the car was still on top when the 996TT came out. The Ferrari barely managed to level the playing field with the 360, by the time the old Turbo was four years old already.
    Now I truly hope that we are both wrong and that the 997TT will be a spectacular performer (factory numbers probably ARE conservative), but if we know the Turbo S is coming and can afford to wait another year or so, why not?



    Maybe the two of us will be the first turboS customers



    Yeah, that was my plan. My buddy bought an M6 recently and I need to bring some big guns

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    Outlaw_Hawk said:
    Quote:
    arakis said:
    relax, Ferrari fans, they are just blowing steam. Becouse 599 gtb (turbos real contender)



    you mean that the 599 which is double the price is turbo real contender?
    dont tell me that the 430 is boxters real contender?



    learn to read the whole post. Price/Performance doesent aplay to ferrari, it has 4000 cars a year and it has a lot more.......(wont put Ferrari Bs here for respect to cool porsche fans witch I respect a lot) Want to compere price tags go by a Fiat or VW. Ferrari is the most expensive sportcar maker in the world as it has always been, and even if it had twice the production line of porsche and if its price was double that of a porsche people would still wait for a year just to have the privilage to by one. But thats Ferrari. Dont talk price talk performance, 997 turbo is faster and it should be becouse it isnt in the same class 680 NM vs 430NM. No contest there.

    430 real contendor doeasent exist. 430 CS should be vs 997 GT3 RS. Now that will be a show down.

    Oh by the way how come every body is cociusly avoinding the 599 GTB subject.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    I like Ferrari they are beautiful cars. I'm not too crazy for the 599gtb but that could change when i see it in person. I still believe the 997TT will be quicker...

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Not too crazy about the design of the 599 either, and it will be $250K+, not in the same price league again but still a direct competitor of the 997TT. Personally, for $250K, I would get a 997TT cab and a 360CS (or a 430 if you are lucky).

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    nice... what a great addition to the garage

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    arakis said:
    Quote:
    Outlaw_Hawk said:
    Quote:
    arakis said:
    relax, Ferrari fans, they are just blowing steam. Becouse 599 gtb (turbos real contender)



    you mean that the 599 which is double the price is turbo real contender?
    dont tell me that the 430 is boxters real contender?



    learn to read the whole post. Price/Performance doesent aplay to ferrari, it has 4000 cars a year and it has a lot more.......(wont put Ferrari Bs here for respect to cool porsche fans witch I respect a lot) Want to compere price tags go by a Fiat or VW. Ferrari is the most expensive sportcar maker in the world as it has always been, and even if it had twice the production line of porsche and if its price was double that of a porsche people would still wait for a year just to have the privilage to by one. But thats Ferrari. Dont talk price talk performance, 997 turbo is faster and it should be becouse it isnt in the same class 680 NM vs 430NM. No contest there.

    430 real contendor doeasent exist. 430 CS should be vs 997 GT3 RS. Now that will be a show down.

    Oh by the way how come every body is cociusly avoinding the 599 GTB subject.



    How old are you?

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    I am 23.

    Ferrari hve always been more expensive cars then Porsches,

    I guess it has something to do with it being a status simbol far ahed of Porsche, I guess u have to pay for something like that, and that makes sense. Porsche and a Ferrari that are in the same price range are not in the same class performence wise, porsche will always be better because its cheaper.

    What u are saying is that Dodge viper is in the same class as cayman, I mean they both cost the same, never mind that one is a dodge and the other is a porsch and that one has a 8l engine and the othere has a 3.4l I mean they cost the same. How old are u

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    arakis said:
    I am 23.





    That makes you older than Crash. Of course, he'll argue he's got more maturity.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    Quote:
    arakis said:
    I am 23.





    That makes you older than Crash. Of course, he'll argue he's got more maturity.



    I certainly have quite a lot of experience with sports cars (mostly Porsche), while maturity is a very debatable term. One could say that you're immature, based on your comment (and who knows, that person might be right ). Come to think of it, based on MANY of your comments .

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    porsche and ferrari are not to be compared. they have different souls. i have always loved porsches. understated perfection.you park, you get out and youre not judged !

    having owned a 360 i assure it was the most embarrassing ride ever. people REACT. in a bad way...

    since, i am sure that i will never buy an f car again.

    whoever disses the 997tt should wait till they drive or get a ride in it. specs promise whiplashing performance !!

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    Quote:
    arakis said:
    I am 23.





    That makes you older than Crash. Of course, he'll argue he's got more maturity.



    I certainly have quite a lot of experience with sports cars (mostly Porsche), while maturity is a very debatable term. One could say that you're immature, based on your comment (and who knows, that person might be right ). Come to think of it, based on MANY of your comments .



    Sorry crash I didnt come here do discus my imaturety (maturety), I came here to discuss cars. If u want to say I am imature, Find my posts witch are, send me a pm, and Ill send u one back, So the people here can skip all the BS. Oh by the way I like only facts, I might disort them in my mind so they sound better for me, but then who dosent. Show me a person witch doesent create illusions to make his life seem easier, I'll show u a Lobotomy patient. (modification of a quote from K-PAX)

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    arakis said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    Quote:
    arakis said:
    I am 23.





    That makes you older than Crash. Of course, he'll argue he's got more maturity.



    I certainly have quite a lot of experience with sports cars (mostly Porsche), while maturity is a very debatable term. One could say that you're immature, based on your comment (and who knows, that person might be right ). Come to think of it, based on MANY of your comments .



    Sorry crash I didnt come here do discus my imaturety (maturety), I came here to discuss cars. If u want to say I am imature, Find my posts witch are, send me a pm, and Ill send u one back, So the people here can skip all the BS. Oh by the way I like only facts, I might disort them in my mind so they sound better for me, but then who dosent. Show me a person witch doesent create illusions to make his life seem easier, I'll show u a Lobotomy patient. (modification of a quote from K-PAX)



    Arakis, your maturity wasn't called in question, but your view of things was, hence the age question. Comparing a Porsche and a Ferrari, that costs twice as much, just isn't rational. That is all I have to say.

    Have a nice day

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    one question... will be the turbo997 better than m6 over 200 km/h ??? m6board.com , shows videos with m6 vs 996 tt and de m6 wins with nice distance...

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    Crash said:

    Arakis, your maturity wasn't called in question, but your view of things was, hence the age question. Comparing a Porsche and a Ferrari, that costs twice as much, just isn't rational. That is all I have to say.

    Have a nice day



    Well of course we cant compare a car with anything that costs twice as much
    and its gonna be so embarrassing to the owner of the other car if he cant pull away

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    xandi911 said:
    one question... will be the turbo997 better than m6 over 200 km/h ??? m6board.com , shows videos with m6 vs 996 tt and de m6 wins with nice distance...



    The 997TT will be quicker than the M6 at higher speeds: The 996TTS with 450hp is quicker than the M6 above ca. 240kph. The 997TT has 30hp more than the 996TTS.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    hmm nice.. but the question is.. the m6 max speed its 340 km/h.... the new 997tt 310km/h .... a think that above 270km/h... the porsche stays.... or not??

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    xandi911 said:
    hmm nice.. but the question is.. the m6 max speed its 340 km/h.... the new 997tt 310km/h .... a think that above 270km/h... the porsche stays.... or not??



    It beats it. All the way up to 310 km/h. Although you have to take one thing into account: the M6 is essentially out of control at speeds over 300 km/h.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    xandi911 said:
    hmm nice.. but the question is.. the m6 max speed its 340 km/h.... the new 997tt 310km/h .... a think that above 270km/h... the porsche stays.... or not??



    No. Up to approximately 310kph the 996TTS is quicker (main factors should be aerodynamics and the shorter gear ratio).

    Only above the 996TTS' top speed of ca. 310kph the M6 would be quicker

    But then: A friend of mine (who owns a M6) considered delimiting his car beyond the official 305kph limit. He did not do it however as BMW/M and various tuners warned him: the car seems to have some serious aearodynamic problems at high speeds that would make such venture quite dangerous.

    He has now accepted that the M6 is only capable of doing safe 305kph.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    xandi911 said:
    hmm nice.. but the question is.. the m6 max speed its 340 km/h.... the new 997tt 310km/h .... a think that above 270km/h... the porsche stays.... or not??



    It beats it. All the way up to 310 km/h. Although you have to take one thing into account: the M6 is essentially out of control at speeds over 300 km/h.



    Absolutely correct

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    xandi911 said:
    hmm nice.. but the question is.. the m6 max speed its 340 km/h.... the new 997tt 310km/h .... a think that above 270km/h... the porsche stays.... or not??



    It beats it. All the way up to 310 km/h. Although you have to take one thing into account: the M6 is essentially out of control at speeds over 300 km/h.



    Thats right. BTW is the m6 speed really 330kmh or somethig like that. I saw unbeliable speedo errors on BMW M s for example M3 CSL 290kh speedo and 268kmh on real, also AMuS test M6 for speedo error it was 150kmh on real and speedo indicatin 160kmh. So m6 real speed is a serious doubt

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    VGA18 said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    xandi911 said:
    hmm nice.. but the question is.. the m6 max speed its 340 km/h.... the new 997tt 310km/h .... a think that above 270km/h... the porsche stays.... or not??



    It beats it. All the way up to 310 km/h. Although you have to take one thing into account: the M6 is essentially out of control at speeds over 300 km/h.



    Thats right. BTW is the m6 speed really 330kmh or somethig like that. I saw unbeliable speedo errors on BMW M s for example M3 CSL 290kh speedo and 268kmh on real, also AMuS test M6 for speedo error it was 150kmh on real and speedo indicatin 160kmh. So m6 real speed is a serious doubt



    The speedo shows about 340 km/h, but it's supposedly closer to 320 km/h.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    That is the answer i was waiting maybe a little less who knows.

    BTW i I try to point that because some BMW fans thinks the m6 or m5 is has much top speed than F430 or Gallardo or 997 Turbo. I dont think so
    I saw 330kph in my ,Gallardo however it has some more rpm to go . 700 rpm till redline when at 320 kph(7400 rpm)Of course i have a error but dunno cauz i dont have a g-tech or gps.

     
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