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Re: Stating the obvious , and it's " reward "
Quote:
Moogle said:
VW group is a vicious sharkpool
i hear the internal politics are insane!
VW just got the bill for moving into the wrong direction.
The Phaeton was dead before it even showed up on the market, what did they think of building a luxury limousine for the price tag of a S-class or 7-series and almost half a ton more weight, the design of a bigger Passat and a huge VW logo front and rear?
Another mistake: the Touareg. It would have been a much bigger success if they would have sold it under the Audi brand name with an Audi brand design, especially in the US where VW has a pretty bad reputation compared to other countries.
More mistakes: the new Golf, even the Polo, etc. ...way too expensive. C'mon, Volkswagen: I can spec a Golf Turbo Diesel for over 40000 Euro, this is INSANE! This is the price of a Porsche Boxster when it first showed up on the market.
Ferdinand Piech was a technical genius, a mastermind, a great engineer, no doubt about it. And maybe he even understood more about marketing and sales than people think. But he went too far, he went far beyond the first goal to achieve a better product quality. Some people call it "Grandomania", I just call it "to be in love with work and development". Piech wanted to create something better, something more luxurious, something...NOT Volkswagen.
Big mistake. He should have stayed with Porsche, I bet he would have been a great support for the guys in Weissach.
Re: Stating the obvious , and it's " reward "
RC,
Piech and all other members of the Porsche dynasty wern't allowed to stay at Porsche, you probably know that.
I'd say there is a HUGE difference what Piech achieved in the past and what his successor has made out of it.
In fact the Phaeton is not a bad limousine. I would've been curious what might have come out of it if Piech would still have his hands on the brand. The exclusive customer relation that was supposed to be launched for the car disappeared either from my eye or from the scene in general.
The car had a similiar launch as the Audi V8, the Smart two-seater or Lexus. What happened with those cars? They succeeded - but not in the first two years...
The Touareg is quite a success according to my information. You are right about VW's image difficulties in the US but maybe this car will improve it substantially?
The car wouldn't have been appropriate for Audi, because of its design (and its weight?) and it would have been much more of a rival for the Cayenne if Audi would've had to put their hands on it.
I agree on the Polo, this car just doesn't have any charme and stands no chance vs. its predecessor - similiar to the old 993 vs. 996 story, just on a cheaper level.
I'd say the Golf is better than most people expect it, especially its design is very clean and similiar to the Boxster's in terms of quality sans any racket.
Prices are indeed an issue and the savings done to the ex- and interior don't do it justice.
Piech and all other members of the Porsche dynasty wern't allowed to stay at Porsche, you probably know that.
I'd say there is a HUGE difference what Piech achieved in the past and what his successor has made out of it.
In fact the Phaeton is not a bad limousine. I would've been curious what might have come out of it if Piech would still have his hands on the brand. The exclusive customer relation that was supposed to be launched for the car disappeared either from my eye or from the scene in general.
The car had a similiar launch as the Audi V8, the Smart two-seater or Lexus. What happened with those cars? They succeeded - but not in the first two years...
The Touareg is quite a success according to my information. You are right about VW's image difficulties in the US but maybe this car will improve it substantially?
The car wouldn't have been appropriate for Audi, because of its design (and its weight?) and it would have been much more of a rival for the Cayenne if Audi would've had to put their hands on it.
I agree on the Polo, this car just doesn't have any charme and stands no chance vs. its predecessor - similiar to the old 993 vs. 996 story, just on a cheaper level.
I'd say the Golf is better than most people expect it, especially its design is very clean and similiar to the Boxster's in terms of quality sans any racket.
Prices are indeed an issue and the savings done to the ex- and interior don't do it justice.
Re: Stating the obvious , and it's " reward "
The Phaeton was a huge mistake, you shouldn't compare it to the Audi A8. Look at the weigh of the Phaeton compared to the A8 and if people don't even see a difference between a Passat and Phaeton (happened to many people I know), it is a bad thing for VW. I didn't say the Phaeton is a bad product, it isn't. It is just the wrong product for VW, it has the wrong design and it weights too much.
Smart? A success? Do you mean the Smart company which is rumored to be closed down for good?
The Touareg a success? Well, maybe. Due to Diesel engines.
But imagine how many Touareg VW would have sold under the Audi brand name. I personally know a doctor and a business man who bought a Touareg V8 instead of a Cayenne S because of price tag and how their customers would look upon them.
So your guess with the "rival" for the Cayenne is just right, with an Audi badge on the Touareg, the Cayenne would have lost lots of cusotmers.
I didn't say the new Golf looks bad or is bad. It is just too expensive. WAYYYYYY too expensive. A friend who drives a Boxster S now, owned a VW GTi Pirelli Edition with 110 HP many years ago when it showed up on the market. I think it was a Golf II, I don't remember anymore. The price tag was around 18000 DEM as far as I remember. Now look at the current Golf GTi, you can spec it easily for 40000 Euro and more. Volkswagen lost the connection to their roots, they started to improve quality but at the same time, they wanted to attack BMW and Mercedes and not their old competitors Opel and Ford. This worked well for a few years but now people don't have that much money anymore, so they prefer buying something else.
Volkswagen is aware of that but I'm not sure they can change things very fast.
Piech and all other members of the Porsche dynasty weren't allowed to stay at Porsche? Would you please explain?
Smart? A success? Do you mean the Smart company which is rumored to be closed down for good?
The Touareg a success? Well, maybe. Due to Diesel engines.
But imagine how many Touareg VW would have sold under the Audi brand name. I personally know a doctor and a business man who bought a Touareg V8 instead of a Cayenne S because of price tag and how their customers would look upon them.
So your guess with the "rival" for the Cayenne is just right, with an Audi badge on the Touareg, the Cayenne would have lost lots of cusotmers.
I didn't say the new Golf looks bad or is bad. It is just too expensive. WAYYYYYY too expensive. A friend who drives a Boxster S now, owned a VW GTi Pirelli Edition with 110 HP many years ago when it showed up on the market. I think it was a Golf II, I don't remember anymore. The price tag was around 18000 DEM as far as I remember. Now look at the current Golf GTi, you can spec it easily for 40000 Euro and more. Volkswagen lost the connection to their roots, they started to improve quality but at the same time, they wanted to attack BMW and Mercedes and not their old competitors Opel and Ford. This worked well for a few years but now people don't have that much money anymore, so they prefer buying something else.
Volkswagen is aware of that but I'm not sure they can change things very fast.
Piech and all other members of the Porsche dynasty weren't allowed to stay at Porsche? Would you please explain?
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