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    Re: 12h of Sebring

    thanks

    Re: 12h of Sebring

    Anyone going? I'll be leaving for the race early morning (5am).

    Mike

    Re: 12h of Sebring

    Thanks much .

    Re: 12h of Sebring

    Wow, Lucas Luhr is driving for AUDI this season.

    http://www.americanlemans.com/drivers_and_teams/Driver.aspx?ID=31

    Re: 12h of Sebring

    Audi, Acura and Ferrari the winners!

    http://www.imsaracing.net/2007/events/Sebring/alms/ALMS_ProvRace.pdf

    Re: 12h of Sebring

    Go 430!!!

    Re: 12h of Sebring

    It was a shame that Porsche's paddle shifter gearbox failed on literally all the RS Spiders .

    Hope it won't be the same gearbox on the facelift 997 .

    What a race though .

    GT2 class Rissi team won the owner of Ferrari of Houston . And GT1 Corvettes did pretty good too.

    Re: 12h of Sebring

    IMHO, they should merge the GT2 and GT1 classes. Corvette is basically racing against itself this season and the GT1 and GT2 laptimes are close enough that with some restrictions, Corvette would mix in nicely.

    Kudos to Acura though. Porsche must be a little

    Re: 12h of Sebring

    Quote:
    911fan said:
    IMHO, they should merge the GT2 and GT1 classes.



    I agree.

    Re: 12h of Sebring

    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    Quote:
    911fan said:
    IMHO, they should merge the GT2 and GT1 classes.



    I agree.



    Corvette says it would leave if that happened. Same with Audi-they would leave if they were restricted so much that the Porsche Spyder would be competitive from a lower class for the sake of a good " show ". Well , taken to the extreme, you can run EVERYTHING in one class- multi-million dollar Audi R10 and $50K Mazda Miata with the proper restrictions . This has always been the problem with manufacturer supported sports car /prototype racing which has lower profile vs F1 or rally cars and minimal/ third tier sponsorship - someone gets dominant and the few other manufacturers go away to avoid the bad publicity . Nothing changes.

    Re: 12h of Sebring

    It's a long season, but to lose to Acura in LMP2 and to Ferrari in GT2--that's a major embarrassment and a temporary marketing disaster. Let's hope for better results in the future...

    Re: 12h of Sebring

    There was an actual petition to the ALMS sanctioning body, let the Corvette's run totally unrestricted (I signed it for giggles) and compete with the prototype classes.

    This would give them around 800+hp and should put them close or on par with an LMP2. Now that would be fun to watch.

    I would imagine this is the last year for Corvette. I can't see them spending this kind of cash without a single competitor. It would be a real loss to ALMS.

    But on the otherhand, there are already talks of taking the street Z06 and bringing it into the GT2 class (where it belongs). It would actually be the street car modified to GT2 specs vs the GT1 Corvette which is basically a silhouette racer and only shares the base frame/motor size.

    This is actually being done in the European Le Mans series, with the first race coming in a few weeks.

    Re: 12h of Sebring

    I was at Sebring all day Saturday, and it was a major setback for Porsche. The RS Spyders were quick but unreliable, very uncharacteristic for Porsche. The Acura's were amazing, very well prepared and engineered. Hat's off to Acura for a job well done!!

    In GT2 the Ferarri was generally the faster car and deserved to win, but not with a NASCAR style bump(s) move. Bergmister should have won, and to his credit he handled it well...classy driver indeed!! He was the better driver no doubt.

    Maybe this will wake Porsch up, no wins in any class at Sebring.

    IMO GT1 has always been an in-between class...not really stock but more of a prototype with somewhat stock body. After rules changes long ago for the Vipers engines, the Corvettes followed suit and ran the 7L engine, which finally became available to the market last year I believe. Anyway GT1 is almost as expensive to run as P1, which is why you see no competition. Only Corvette factory will support this and they support it well...probably in line with Audi investment. No private group can seriously compete in GT1. Merging the GT1 and P2 class would be interesting, maybe Corvette (GM) would field a P2 car? They would be up agaist equals as far as investment with Porsche and Acura.

    GT2 is the best venue IMO with Ferrari 430 the equal to the best Porsche GT3. Wish BMW would return with the M3, they were very competive. Maybe Nissian, or Lexus, or Acura, or Audi (racing R8 ??), or Ford, or Chevy, or Pontiac will field a GT2 car. We need more than just GT3, 430, Spyker and the Panzo, since really the GT3, 430 and somehwhat less Panzo have a chance of winning.

    Great race though, just hope it survives. St Pete is next and this will be interesting to see as well.

    Mike


    Re: 12h of Sebring

    Thanks Andrea! What a finish! I heard the word "protest" uttered by the announcer, but I doubt much will come of the last moment bump. It looked accidental to me, but who knows what will happen.

    The real embarrassment is Acura's win over the Penske-prepared RS Spyders. You can bet this loss will be noted by the factory, and by boss Penske. Losing to the more powerful Audi is one thing, losing to Acura in LMP2 is another. Porsche and Penske are no doubt upset, and will be even more upset when Acura and Ferrari deservedly trumpet their accomplishments in the press. I will bet there will be a major turnaround over the next races, but this one hurt.

    Re: 12h of Sebring

    Hopefully for Sep. 24 hour Le Mans they'll get their act together. It sure was a shame at Sebring no wins in any class for Porsche .

    Now Porsche owners will get it not only from the Corvette guys but from the Acura guys too .

    Re: 12h of Sebring

    Don't get me wrong as I am a true Sports Car and Porsche fan. But at Sebring this is what the series really needs. Acura's win is great for the series as is Ferrari. Domination will kill the series for us all and in P1, GT1 and GT2 this was about to happen. NASCAR found the right equation, equalize the cars so the drivers and crew decide the race not the car manufactor. Remember the M3's in GT2 the DB9's in GT1, even the Salene in GT1. We need more cars in every class. How has Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Ford and everyone else allowed Audi to rule P1? Credit to Audi they could have just kept on running the R8 and probably winning, but they invested in the R10. Where has everyone else been??? In Porsche's case maybe counting thier profits and not managing their heritage!! Why hasn't Ford or GM or Chrysler fielded a P1 car, have they ever?? Well maybe the old GT40, why doesn't Ford field the new GT40?? Where is Mercedes with the CLK and Porsche with the EVO and the Jag GP and Nissian GP and Toyota and so on? I for one would love to see a series as close as NASCAR. The best Sports car race I can remember just happened in GT2, and Porsche didn't win but it was close and fun to watch. Lets see some of this in P1 and GT1 as well, I think P2 has the beginnings of a great series. Remember we Sports Car fans are a small minority and we need to capture the interest of the general public like NASCAR and F1 do. For this to happen we need parity in all race catagories.

    Hopefully more close races to come.

    Mike

    Re: 12h of Sebring

    Quote:
    mawyatt said:
    Don't get me wrong as I am a true Sports Car and Porsche fan. But at Sebring this is what the series really needs. Acura's win is great for the series as is Ferrari. Domination will kill the series for us all and in P1, GT1 and GT2 this was about to happen. NASCAR found the right equation, equalize the cars so the drivers and crew decide the race not the car manufactor. Remember the M3's in GT2 the DB9's in GT1, even the Salene in GT1. We need more cars in every class. How has Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Ford and everyone else allowed Audi to rule P1? Credit to Audi they could have just kept on running the R8 and probably winning, but they invested in the R10. Where has everyone else been??? In Porsche's case maybe counting thier profits and not managing their heritage!! Why hasn't Ford or GM or Chrysler fielded a P1 car, have they ever?? Well maybe the old GT40, why doesn't Ford field the new GT40?? Where is Mercedes with the CLK and Porsche with the EVO and the Jag GP and Nissian GP and Toyota and so on? I for one would love to see a series as close as NASCAR. The best Sports car race I can remember just happened in GT2, and Porsche didn't win but it was close and fun to watch. Lets see some of this in P1 and GT1 as well, I think P2 has the beginnings of a great series. Remember we Sports Car fans are a small minority and we need to capture the interest of the general public like NASCAR and F1 do. For this to happen we need parity in all race catagories.

    Hopefully more close races to come.

    Mike



    I agree with what you say Mike .

    Didn't Bentley and Cadillac had P1 cars few years ago?

    But for sure we need more cars in P1 and GT1. Whatever happened to Saleen a Astons this year in GT1?

    Re: 12h of Sebring

    That will be great if the Z06 moves into GT2. Porsche v. Ferrari v. Corvette As far as the move that was used to win the GT2 class, I thought it was fine. Bergmeister should have moved to the inside while exiting the corner to protect his line, but he allowed the Ferrari to cut inside.

    As for P1, I think it is somewhat silly having Audi race against themselves year after year. I am hoping Acura moves up or maybe rules that benefit smaller teams can be made.

    Re: 12h of Sebring

    I attended my first sports car race over 20 years ago. I watched it when 956,962 were in their hayday. I remember watching Porsche dominate with privateers. Today Audi dominates, in the past Jaguar, Nissan and others have dominated. It too will pass, Audi has done a fabulous job and deserves the credit. Now maybe Acuras turn, but give credit also to Andretti-Green racing for preparing the car, they ran a 12 hour race a month ago to test their car and it was ready for this race, maybe Penske, Dyson and the others should have done the same. They could have identified the problems ahead of time to allow the factory to work on the problem before the race as Acura did. This is a team sport, no one person or factory can win this race, it is won by the team and factory that works together. It now shows what a dominate job that Audi has done over the years. Look at the down time that Audi has had in all the long distance races over the years. I do not like NASCAR type of racing aka Grand Am. Look how generic the cars look and it takes all the inventive engineering out of the race. I want manufactuers to challenge themselves to come up with a better race car within the rules. NASCAR takes all the challenge out of it because of the restrictions, if you want restrictions watch Grand Am, if you want a manufactuer to challenge the kings then watch LeMans racing.

    Re: 12h of Sebring

    Ron,

    Yes I now remember the black Bently, they were really nice but didn't hang around long...wonder why? Did Caddy or was it Lincoln that had the short lived P1 car?

    Mike

    Re: 12h of Sebring

    dan996,

    I would like to believe that the Le Mans series can survive without parity in the classes, but I don't think it can. IMO for the series to be successful here in the US we need excitement for the general public like NASCAR brings. Sebring this year with the dramatic GT2 finish and the Acura win will do nothing but help the series. We sports car fans are to few here in the US, check your local newspaper for any writeup about Sebring, even with these dramatic events...not much here in Clearwater/St Pete Florida! Like it or not NASCAR is very successful because of the parity they have forced, anyone can win any race anytime. I even got bored over the years watching Porsche win every GT2 race until Panoz and Ferarri stole some wins. It was like watching a Porsche Cup race instead of GT2, not much fun IMO. Audi has completely distroyed P1 and we seriously need some challengers in P1 and GT1. I don't think GT1 will survive because it's almost as expensive to field a winning GT1 car as a P1 or P2 car, and only very high end private (Dyson & Pensky for example) with factory support or true factory teams (Audi, Corvette, Acura) can support this investment.

    This is a business and must show value added, meaning large audience awareness for the sponsors and factory investments to pay off. This can only happen if we have classes that are not dominated by one manufactor, where any race can be won by any car anytime with races like the Sebring GT2 finish.

    Just my thoughts,

    Mike

    Re: 12h of Sebring

    Quote:
    mawyatt said:
    dan996,

    I would like to believe that the Le Mans series can survive without parity in the classes, but I don't think it can. IMO for the series to be successful here in the US we need excitement for the general public like NASCAR brings. Sebring this year with the dramatic GT2 finish and the Acura win will do nothing but help the series. We sports car fans are to few here in the US, check your local newspaper for any writeup about Sebring, even with these dramatic events...not much here in Clearwater/St Pete Florida! Like it or not NASCAR is very successful because of the parity they have forced, anyone can win any race anytime. I even got bored over the years watching Porsche win every GT2 race until Panoz and Ferarri stole some wins. It was like watching a Porsche Cup race instead of GT2, not much fun IMO. Audi has completely distroyed P1 and we seriously need some challengers in P1 and GT1. I don't think GT1 will survive because it's almost as expensive to field a winning GT1 car as a P1 or P2 car, and only very high end private (Dyson & Pensky for example) with factory support or true factory teams (Audi, Corvette, Acura) can support this investment.

    This is a business and must show value added, meaning large audience awareness for the sponsors and factory investments to pay off. This can only happen if we have classes that are not dominated by one manufactor, where any race can be won by any car anytime with races like the Sebring GT2 finish.

    Just my thoughts,

    Mike



    Mike,
    I don't diagree with you on many points, I do think we will always need some parity, just not to the point that you can not tell the difference between a Chevy, Ford or Chrysler. Would we like it if in the race we could not tell the difference between a Porsche, Ferrari or Aston Martin. What I would like to see is when one brand is dominating give them weight or some restrictions. This has been working in LeMans series. They gave the Audi R8 many restrictions over the years that is why Dyson was getting competative and if Porsche were more reliable they would be beating Audi. Now with the restrictions that have been given to Audi the LMP2 catagory cars could be beating them this year...but Audi came prepared and reengineered the car so that it was more driveable according to the drivers. They could push the R10 harder and get better lap times but they still were pushed hard by Acura and could have been by Porsche. If this were Grand Am I would still be trying to figure out which car was the Acura and which was the Porsche. For the most part I agree with what you are saying, I want more manufactuers out there pushing Audi, Porsche, Acura, Aston Martin and so on. We should encourage BMW, Mercedes, Cadillac and every other manufactuer to come out and play within the rules and see who can come up with new engineering that could beat everyone else. This is why we get new cars, because they have the state of the art engineering.

    Re: 12h of Sebring

    dan996,

    You bring up a good point about NASCAR, I can't tell a Chevy from a Ford from a Dodge...they all look the same. That would be terrible for any sports car race. I did have a hard time identifing the Acura and Dyson Spyders in P2, wish Dyson and Acura had an easlily identifiable paint scheme, the Penske are easy because fo the speed yellow.

    St Pete races coming up in a couple weeks, I'm going to try and attend.

    BTW Porsche has no excuse in my mind for these electrical problems with the Spyder. I'm an EE and can tell you electricals are the last thing these cars should have problems with.

    Mike

    Re: 12h of Sebring

    Quote:
    mawyatt said:
    dan996,

    You bring up a good point about NASCAR, I can't tell a Chevy from a Ford from a Dodge...they all look the same. That would be terrible for any sports car race. I did have a hard time identifing the Acura and Dyson Spyders in P2, wish Dyson and Acura had an easlily identifiable paint scheme, the Penske are easy because fo the speed yellow.

    St Pete races coming up in a couple weeks, I'm going to try and attend.

    BTW Porsche has no excuse in my mind for these electrical problems with the Spyder. I'm an EE and can tell you electricals are the last thing these cars should have problems with.

    Mike



    You got that right!

     
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