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    Why Do Turbos Have A Wing On The Rear Deck?

    Okay..., I don't like the wing: that's out of the way.

    Now I'm wondering why is it there in the first place?

    Not for track use because track wings are more elaborate and large.

    Given that the aerodynmamics of TT and Carrera are the same (because the shape is basically the same) if the 997 Carrera can make runs on the Autobahn at near-200mph with a retractible spoiler, why can't the Turbo?

    Is it because the Turbo body has been given different aerodynamics and therefore _requires_ a wing?

    Do the GT3, TT and Carrera have wings and appendages and aero kits just so they look different?

    If only a few hundred cars go from dealership to track, why would Porsche build cars for the track? Presumably a retractible spoiler is all that's needed on any 997 for the gradual curves and straight shots of the Autobahn.

    Did anybody ask Porsche: "Why did you build the Turbo with a wing?" Anybody get an answer? Is it because they want the cars to all _look_ different? THAT answer would freak me out.


    Re: Why Do Turbos Have A Wing On The Rear Deck?

    Probably because turbo looks better with the wing... atleast thats what i think

    Re: Why Do Turbos Have A Wing On The Rear Deck?

    As far as I know, when you want to add a GT3 front bumper to a carrera, Porsche says it's not sold without the rear wing. It seems there's some aerodynamic problem.

    Why is that, I don't know

    and I don't think we could say the same thing about the turbo's front bumper as it was fitted on the 996c4s with no rear wing, so why would it be any different for a 997? Of course the 997 turbo is more powerful than a 997 carrera S with a turbo's front bumper but power doesn't change anything to aerodynamics.

    Not to mention that with X51, the carrera has 381bhp and no rear wing is needed to drive the car safely.

    An other way to see things is to ask how much power a carrera S could sustain without changing its aerodynamics. From what I've read so far, I'm sure a 997s could cope with more than 400bhp. Could it cope with 480bhp without adding a rear wing?


    You asked a good question ... anyone?

    Re: Why Do Turbos Have A Wing On The Rear Deck?

    I think you're right about the necessity... probably useless. BUT porsche likes to refer to the past (you know, those days when there was no substitute, the days that porsche ruled) In those days, the turbos had huge wings just to keep them on the road (slightly ).
    -Joost-

    Re: Why Do Turbos Have A Wing On The Rear Deck?

    I think it has historic reasons. Back in the old days, when you could order the standard 911 with or without rear wing, the wing was obligatory for the turbo, since it had to cover the edges of the intercooler, which were protruding over the car body.

    Since this is no longer necessary, I'd say Porsche only keeps the wing because of reminiscence to the good old days.

    Re: Why Do Turbos Have A Wing On The Rear Deck?

    Quote:
    amazon said:
    As far as I know, when you want to add a GT3 front bumper to a carrera, Porsche says it's not sold without the rear wing. It seems there's some aerodynamic problem.

    Why is that, I don't know

    and I don't think we could say the same thing about the turbo's front bumper as it was fitted on the 996c4s with no rear wing, so why would it be any different for a 997? Of course the 997 turbo is more powerful than a 997 carrera S with a turbo's front bumper but power doesn't change anything to aerodynamics.

    Not to mention that with X51, the carrera has 381bhp and no rear wing is needed to drive the car safely.

    An other way to see things is to ask how much power a carrera S could sustain without changing its aerodynamics. From what I've read so far, I'm sure a 997s could cope with more than 400bhp. Could it cope with 480bhp without adding a rear wing?


    You asked a good question ... anyone?



    The 996 C4S had a different front lip to that of the Turbo. Made all the difference.

    Re: Why Do Turbos Have A Wing On The Rear Deck?

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    I think it has historic reasons. Back in the old days, when you could order the standard 911 with or without rear wing, the wing was obligatory for the turbo, since it had to cover the edges of the intercooler, which were protruding over the car body.

    Since this is no longer necessary, I'd say Porsche only keeps the wing because of reminiscence to the good old days.



    Agreed! The same historical reasons why the ignition key is on the left side...

    Re: Why Do Turbos Have A Wing On The Rear Deck?

    Quote:
    MMD said: If only a few hundred cars go from dealership to track, why would Porsche build cars for the track? Presumably a retractible spoiler is all that's needed on any 997 for the gradual curves and straight shots of the Autobahn.



    I started tracking last fall (DE's) I found out then that Porche's are track ready of the production line. This applies to a variety of features and components that really matter in the environment.

    I am not saying that they are competition racing-ready, but they are track ready. To bring a typical Corvette up to good track standard, you have to spend some time and money...

    Why does Porche produce cars at this level when most don't see that use? Well, that's just what they do - at least they still do today...

    Quote:
    amazon: As far as I know, when you want to add a GT3 front bumper to a carrera, Porsche says it's not sold without the rear wing. It seems there's some aerodynamic problem.



    The rear wing matches the front spoiler - both are designed to create a (typically) downforce that must be balanced out within some range. Most of their street-car wings are non-adjustable characteristics, and you get what you get. But that's why they won't sell one without the other.

    Quote:
    MMD: Not for track use because track wings are more elaborate and large.



    I think these do have use on the track - and anyother time you approach 120MPH and up... The "track wings" to which you refer provide a broader range of adjustable characteristics providng a range of performance style. This allows an experienced driver to match the operation to the track he/she is headed to. example: a track with a curve right at the top of a hill-peak almost demands some serious overall (balanced) downforce.

    Not really any kind of expert here, just the little I know...

    Re: Why Do Turbos Have A Wing On The Rear Deck?

    ^ what he said!

    Re: Why Do Turbos Have A Wing On The Rear Deck?

    Because it looks cool.

    Re: Why Do Turbos Have A Wing On The Rear Deck?

    Its a great place to rest a can of beer on when working in the garage.

    Re: Why Do Turbos Have A Wing On The Rear Deck?

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Its a great place to rest a can of beer on when working in the garage.



    A buddy told me that he probably became P-addicted because his parents used the wing to change diapers when he was a baby

    Re: Why Do Turbos Have A Wing On The Rear Deck?

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Its a great place to rest a can of beer on when working in the garage.



    A buddy told me that he probably became P-addicted because his parents used the wing to change diapers when he was a baby




    The wing (grill) near the engine can get hot

    I bet he's got the grill design of the wing marked on his @ss to proove it

    Re: Why Do Turbos Have A Wing On The Rear Deck?

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Its a great place to rest a can of beer on when working in the garage.



    A buddy told me that he probably became P-addicted because his parents used the wing to change diapers when he was a baby



    Repost fun:

    Re: Why Do Turbos Have A Wing On The Rear Deck?

    Quote:
    amazon said:

    I bet he's got the grill design of the wing marked on his @ss to proove it



    LoL - I'll ask his GF
    @ MMD: yes, that's why the Germans call it the "Fritten-Theke" (French fries lunch counter)

    Re: Why Do Turbos Have A Wing On The Rear Deck?

    The newer 996/997 wings are failures.

    Too rounded and not level, they are worthless for holding cans of beer or babies and no longer suitable to hold a fertile young lady while making more babies.

    Porsche has really let us down.

    Re: Why Do Turbos Have A Wing On The Rear Deck?

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:


    Porsche has really let us down.



    This should make us all happy:



    Re: Why Do Turbos Have A Wing On The Rear Deck?

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:

    @ MMD: yes, that's why the Germans call it the "Fritten-Theke" (French fries lunch counter)



    LOLOLOLOL! Thanks for the tasty Teutonic trivia!


    Re: Why Do Turbos Have A Wing On The Rear Deck?

    When tails began to be seen on the 911 autos (circa 1974 with Ducktail) they were appropriately balanced with a matched airdam. Over time these things got more sophisticated with refinements coming from the air tunnel tests at Volkswagen's windtunnel. If you note your owner's manual it cautions you against driving these cars in their upper speed ranges without a working air spoiler,--it DOES make a difference. For you, don't worry about it. You probably don't go fast enough to force the need for it.

    The present articulated tails found on 911s since 1990's 964 came about because of people like you who loved the look of the 911s sans tail and felt that it spoiled the looks of the car. They have done what they can to fix that.

    The turbo tail is slightly different as that car can go about 10 mph faster than a 997s. Don't underestimate Porsche engineering. Even the spoiler is different between the 997S Coupe and 997S Cabriolet,--on the Cabs they are deployed up an extra few milimeters to compensate for the newfound drag across the fabric roof.

    Dan

    Re: Why Do Turbos Have A Wing On The Rear Deck?

    Quote:
    Dan L said:


    The turbo tail is slightly different as that car can go about 10 mph faster than a 997s. Don't underestimate Porsche engineering. Even the spoiler is different between the 997S Coupe and 997S Cabriolet,--on the Cabs they are deployed up an extra few milimeters to compensate for the newfound drag across the fabric roof.

    Dan



    Yes, good points all. Especially for the Cab, I can imagine the fabric bulging out and changing turbulance back there.

    But one could imagine a 997 C4 with a Turbo engine in it (all 480hp and Tq). Do you think that Porsche would require changes to the stock auto-deploying spoiler?

    How about Ruf conversions? They get a few more MPH, do they modify the stock spoilers out of necessity ?

    Re: Why Do Turbos Have A Wing On The Rear Deck?

    I always thought it made a good picnic table, at least the ones in the old days? The ones today are no good for barbecueing so Porsche thought a clothesline would be more appropriate. Seriously, you would be surprised to learn that they are definately functional and are not just for show. Of course the faster you go the more significant the wing becomes. I doubt that at the speeds we drive (55-65 mph) it has any effect at all. On a race car the wing(s) are critical and play a huge role stabilizing it at high speed. I'm sure its both functional and fasionable when it comes to our street cars.

    Re: Why Do Turbos Have A Wing On The Rear Deck?

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    Dan L said:


    The turbo tail is slightly different as that car can go about 10 mph faster than a 997s. Don't underestimate Porsche engineering. Even the spoiler is different between the 997S Coupe and 997S Cabriolet,--on the Cabs they are deployed up an extra few milimeters to compensate for the newfound drag across the fabric roof.

    Dan



    Yes, good points all. Especially for the Cab, I can imagine the fabric bulging out and changing turbulance back there.

    But one could imagine a 997 C4 with a Turbo engine in it (all 480hp and Tq). Do you think that Porsche would require changes to the stock auto-deploying spoiler?

    How about Ruf conversions? They get a few more MPH, do they modify the stock spoilers out of necessity ?



    Alois Ruf definitely adjusts their rear spoilers because many of their adjustments and fitments affect aerodynamics. This stuff 'appears' to be simple, but it is much more complex than people realize. It would be just as easy to upset a well balanced car by changing something from factory stock,--and yet, people do it everyday. I can't tell you how many times I see the best materials and parts taken OFF a Porsche only to have it replaced with something cheaper, less engineered, and all in all a poor decision. That's why so many 'messed with' Porsches command much less than their stock versions of the same vintage.

    Dan

    Re: Why Do Turbos Have A Wing On The Rear Deck?

    oh, i just know the wing on tt is useless?

    so what the hack they make it even heavier with the powered up and down thing for the wing...

    Re: Why Do Turbos Have A Wing On The Rear Deck?

    Thanks for your insights Dan.

    Re: Why Do Turbos Have A Wing On The Rear Deck?

    when we went to alice springs last year to drive at unlimited speeds before they changed the law and introduced speed limits , my mates 996 TT rear wing would pop up over 130 kph . we fixed it after day one to keep it in the raised position all the time . he noticed a huge improvement in stability over 250 kph . he said it was awful try to drive at high speed while the wing was down , so i guess it serves a purpose .

    2005 expedition
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69506

    2006 expedition
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117583&highlight=exotics+outback

    Re: Why Do Turbos Have A Wing On The Rear Deck?

    SORRY , IT SHOULD SAY THE WING DIDN'T POP UP AT OVER 130 KPH

     
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