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    MPG and winter tyre handling

    Just thought I'd post something.

    First off, decided to take it gently on the 150 mile commute to work last night. Managed 31 (uk)mpg, which I thought was pretty good. Just under 80mph most of the way. Was 31.4 for quite a while.

    Second, I'd like a rant about the handling on Michelin Alpin winter tyres. It's rubbish! At least at 8c temp. At motorway speeds, it's like there's a 1/4 second delay after you turn the wheel before the car notices. Try a little gentle slalom at that speed, and you have the very unsettling feeling that you're towing a caravan!

    It felt almost dangerous, so I've put in about 2psi extra air in all round. Don't know if that's a good idea or not. Has helped a little. I guess it's the side-wall not being as stiff as the Pilots.

    On the flip side, straight-line grip is still an improvement I would say - better for pulling away, braking in the damp. I have had a couple of times when the back end has broken away slightly on smooth roundabout, causing PSM to kick in. (Again, 8c, after a long drive) Don't think I was being too eager with the throttle/steering at the time.

    Anyone else with similar tales? I have to say that I'm quite shocked at how poor the handling is on the winters.

    Re: MPG and winter tyre handling

    Quote:
    wtsnet said:
    I'd like a rant about the handling on Michelin Alpin winter tyres. It's rubbish! At least at 8c temp. At motorway speeds, it's like there's a 1/4 second delay after you turn the wheel before the car notices. Try a little gentle slalom at that speed, and you have the very unsettling feeling that you're towing a caravan!

    It felt almost dangerous, so I've put in about 2psi extra air in all round. Don't know if that's a good idea or not. Has helped a little. I guess it's the side-wall not being as stiff as the Pilots.

    On the flip side, straight-line grip is still an improvement I would say - better for pulling away, braking in the damp. I have had a couple of times when the back end has broken away slightly on smooth roundabout, causing PSM to kick in.

    Anyone else with similar tales? I have to say that I'm quite shocked at how poor the handling is on the winters.



    Another flip side: Try driving on summer tires at -12 deg C. That was the temperature when I left home this morning.

    When you really NEED winter tires, then you'll happily accept the concessions you have to make on warmer days.

    Re: MPG and winter tyre handling

    If you ever tire of your tires, let me know . I was praying for a set of snow tires two weeks ago when we went on a cruise in the midlands and the lead car stopped for a photo shoot on a gentle uphill country road which was completely covered in pressed snow (at 1 deg Celsius). Thought I'd never make it out of there with my 3mm summer tire profile.

    Re: MPG and winter tyre handling

    How did you manage to find snow???
    It's pretty tropical wherever I go. I Just hope we get some colder weather in February. (not sure we can match -12 though!) I know the tyres are out of their optimum range, but I didn't think they'd be this jelly-like.

    Re: MPG and winter tyre handling

    I've got the original PS2's on mine and they are fine once warmed even in minus temperatures! The reras are brand new and have transformed the grip than the worn ones (had 2mm left).

    I think winter tyres are aimed at the colder markets, the UK is too mild to warrant a chnage of rubber.....i don't know anyone who would go to the expense of a tyre for the winter!!

    Put the normal tyres on and make sure you warm them up before pushing the car.

    I get no more than 20mpg, but then I do drive the hell out of it!

    Re: MPG and winter tyre handling

    Had a really bad driving experience with the 987S on NYE - I didn't expect the snow that early, and I was on summer tires working my way to NYC where it was supposed to be 45 degrees and raining (I live in a suburb north of the city). Let's just say without PSM I would have been smashed against a barrier. Without a salt truck to come by and salt my rear wheels, I would have been there all night.

    Oh, I forgot to mention the car doing a 1080 (yes 360 x 3) going down a modest hill. I had to kind of "pinball" / ricochet my rear wheel against the curb at about 3 mph to point my car in the right direction.

    I am never taking this thing out in the snow or super cold weather again!

    Re: MPG and winter tyre handling

    UK weather is just really tricky. I hear what WTSnet says... most of the winter, the temperature and grip hovers around the edge of feasibility for summer tires, and you'll only encounter maybe a week's worth of real winter conditions. I'd probably still go for the snow tires if it was possible since I'm silly enough to participate in top-down scenic drives through the midlands when it's <1 deg out there and snowing .

    Re: MPG and winter tyre handling

    OMG! AJ, what did you use to clean the driver's seat with afterwards!? Glad you're OK.

    I figured I was going to have to buy new tyres at SOME point, and (as I'm using the car as my main drive) I'd rather have better gripping, poor handling tyres on if the weather suddenly turns cold with snow/ice on the road. UK weather is notoriously changeable.

    Frustratingly (Sod's law) it's been pretty warm so far - the long term forecast for the winter was for an abnormally cold winter, which is why I decided to switch early. Can't trust the forecasters, eh?

    Re: MPG and winter tyre handling

    Quote:
    wtsnet said:
    OMG! AJ, what did you use to clean the driver's seat with afterwards!? Glad you're OK.



    Thanks WTS - I'm doing well, just more experience with the car under my belt. My seat was fine - it was this girl's puke in the passenger's seat later on in the evening (unrelated occurence) that needed cleaning....hint - lots of Zymol cleaner on the inside.


    Re: MPG and winter tyre handling

    i got bridgestone bliz-X pretty good, 225/40, 265/35

    Re: MPG and winter tyre handling

    Quote:
    nachi said:
    i got bridgestone bliz-X pretty good, 225/40, 265/35


    The Michelins are only 255 on the back... Interesting...
    Don't laugh, but have you had opportunity to try them at warm temps? (8 degrees or more?)

    Was a little colder this week - 6 degrees. Seem to be a bit more responsive and grippy, but still quite wobbly - you don't want to be making sudden movenets at speed. Hopefully there's some cold weather coming across from Siberia next week, so expect more ranting from me on the subject then.

    Re: MPG and winter tyre handling

    Quote:
    wtsnet said:
    UK weather is notoriously changeable.

    Frustratingly (Sod's law) it's been pretty warm so far - the long term forecast for the winter was for an abnormally cold winter, which is why I decided to switch early. Can't trust the forecasters, eh?




    Having just checked the weeks forecast I suspect you will get ample chance to test your winter tyres late next week - Siberia is on its way to the UK!

    Re: MPG and winter tyre handling

    Quote:
    CharlesL said:Siberia is on its way to the UK!



    Re: MPG and winter tyre handling

    Quote:
    Ente said:
    UK weather is just really tricky. I hear what WTSnet says... most of the winter, the temperature and grip hovers around the edge of feasibility for summer tires, and you'll only encounter maybe a week's worth of real winter conditions.



    Same dilemma here at the most western part of Germany - 90% of the winter season it's either too cold/wet for summer tires but at the same time not cold enough for winter tires - wish the industry would develop some type of intermediates for those conditions (but I guess the market for such tires maybe too small to rectify the R&D expenses )

    Maybe Louis from Toronto can comment on his experiences with the Conti Winter Contact TS 810 (he seemed to be happy with them in cold wheather, but I don't know whether he liked them at moderate temperatures also ).

    @ AJC: happy to hear that nothing happened to you in the Porsche merry-go-round I know it's an awful experience to become passenger at the driver's seat

    Hope the Siberian cold-wave won't make it to the UK (it seems to loose force west of the Rhine river - this morning Berlin 15*C below zero, whereas Cologne "only" 6*C below zero).

    Re: MPG and winter tyre handling

    Quote:
    wtsnet said:
    Quote:
    nachi said:
    i got bridgestone bliz-X pretty good, 225/40, 265/35


    The Michelins are only 255 on the back... Interesting...
    Don't laugh, but have you had opportunity to try them at warm temps? (8 degrees or more?)

    Was a little colder this week - 6 degrees. Seem to be a bit more responsive and grippy, but still quite wobbly - you don't want to be making sudden movenets at speed. Hopefully there's some cold weather coming across from Siberia next week, so expect more ranting from me on the subject then.




    i tried them at +12degrees, works superb! loving it!
    apparently some guy that testes porsche told me that 225/40 and 265/35 is best winter setup~

    Re: MPG and winter tyre handling

    Quote:
    nachi said:i tried them at +12degrees, works superb! loving it! apparently some guy that testes porsche told me that 225/40 and 265/35 is best winter setup~


    Thanks for the report Nachi. Perhaps I'll try a different setup when the Alpins wear out.

    Re: MPG and winter tyre handling

    Interesting next months GT Purely Porsche mag has a bit of a rave review of the Alpins, albeit the writers were treated to a few days at Michelins expense at their test track.

    I think the issue is that we haven't had either enough cold wet days, or snow - the dry but salty roads favour no tyre

    Re: MPG and winter tyre handling

    Quote:
    percymon said:
    Interesting next months GT Purely Porsche mag has a bit of a rave review of the Alpins, albeit the writers were treated to a few days at Michelins expense at their test track.

    I think the issue is that we haven't had either enough cold wet days, or snow - the dry but salty roads favour no tyre


    I'll look out for that article then. I take your point about the dry salty roads, however I am also disappointed with the tyres' sluggish response to steering inputs at motorway speed. I admit I'm still learning the handling characteristics of a powerful RWD sportscar, but it sometimes seemed like the car reacts 1/3 second behind the steering input, making tracking the precise curve of a bend awkward, as you are constantly having to make corrections. Maybe it's just my rubbish driving! It seems to be better when colder, and with a little more air in the tyres. It'll be interesting to compare the handling when I stick the summers back on. It's all a learning experience for me!

    Re: MPG and winter tyre handling

    Interesting since the article in GTPP says the side wall os the Alpin is based on that of the PS, in order to retain handling and steering feel.

    Do these tyres actually feel any better at night/early morning when temps are 4 to 5 degrees below than during the daytime at 4-5 degrees above zero ?

    Re: MPG and winter tyre handling

    It does seem better cold, though it stuggles to get below -2c down south . Might be the half-a-tank-of-fuel thing (see other thread) - I'll check this theory tomorrow when I get a second. I'm afraid I've had the Alpins on so long now I've forgotten what the summers were like! Both are 18"s in case anyone was wondering. Will also get a copy of GTPP if I can find one, and see what that article says.

     
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