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    Surprised no one mentioned Ford's decision to axe North American sedans

    Wouldn't be surprised if more companies follow suit. I think they're getting ahead of the puck with this one. I think the push to EVs is going to end up killing sedans in general over the next 10 years.

    What's the incentive to buy a sedan over an SUV/crossover anymore? Even for the European brands -- why would you buy a 3er sedan over a Xer SUV or crossover?


    Re: Surprised no one mentioned Ford's decision to axe North American sedans

    I was just reading about it. No surprises here, I predicted this years ago. Sedans are a thing of the past not that crossovers handle close enough to a sedan and that overall vehicles handle well enough.

    People in the lower segments only care about practicality, price (ie initial price, depreciation, maintenance and electric/gas charges), and features (phone integration, driving assists). Even most interiors are good Anouilh these days. And that’s why EV will take over and hybrids will become obsolete even before becoming mainstream...


    Re: Surprised no one mentioned Ford's decision to axe North American sedans

    For doesn't make good sedans anyway, they have the Fusion and the Taurus that's it. 

    Think the only one that buys them are fleet purchases, car rental companies and police departments.

    An even the later had been switching over to Dodge Chargers.

    So basically it isn't even news. They are discontinuing products that no one buys in the first place.

    I actually had to google to see what sedan Ford still makes other than the Taurus, that's how bad they are.


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    Re: Surprised no one mentioned Ford's decision to axe North American sedans

    Whoopsy:

    For doesn't make good sedans anyway, they have the Fusion and the Taurus that's it. 

    Think the only one that buys them are fleet purchases, car rental companies and police departments.

    An even the later had been switching over to Dodge Chargers.

    So basically it isn't even news. They are discontinuing products that no one buys in the first place.

    I actually had to google to see what sedan Ford still makes other than the Taurus, that's how bad they are.

    Smiley Audi, BMW and Mercedes sell tons of sedans in Europe. The US is not the world (yet). Smiley Not even sure sedans don't sell in the US, are there any viable statistical numbers available?!


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Surprised no one mentioned Ford's decision to axe North American sedans

    US car makers still sells a lot of sedans, just not Ford ones. 

     


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    Re: Surprised no one mentioned Ford's decision to axe North American sedans

    RC:
    Whoopsy:

    For doesn't make good sedans anyway, they have the Fusion and the Taurus that's it. 

    Think the only one that buys them are fleet purchases, car rental companies and police departments.

    An even the later had been switching over to Dodge Chargers.

    So basically it isn't even news. They are discontinuing products that no one buys in the first place.

    I actually had to google to see what sedan Ford still makes other than the Taurus, that's how bad they are.

    Smiley Audi, BMW and Mercedes sell tons of sedans in Europe. The US is not the world (yet). Smiley Not even sure sedans don't sell in the US, are there any viable statistical numbers available?!

    Sedans still sell but crossovers just took over sedans in terms of overall sales and the trend is frightening. RAV4 is the most sold vehicle now after decades of Camry...

    Europe does not have the purchasing power to get crossovers yet, so hatchbacks sell very well. But sedans are not hatchbacks...


    Re: Surprised no one mentioned Ford's decision to axe North American sedans

    We've seen some cheap gas prices over the last several years, relatively speaking. Analysts are predicting crude prices to hit triple digits again within a year, and if anything erupts involving Iran and Saudi Arabia prices could go quite high. When gas is $4 per gallon again in the US instead of $2, you'll see more people buying EVs and hybrids as well. Europe already has very expensive gas, which is probably a big factor in purchasing decisions.


    Re: Surprised no one mentioned Ford's decision to axe North American sedans

    USA has a boatloads of oil untapped. They can single handedly keep prices per barrel under triple digit if they want to.

    Shale gas is very profitable already at current pricing, the cost has gone down quite a bit for them. 

    Alberta oil sand however is still quite expensive cost wise, and they would prefer barrel prices to be over triple digit.

     


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    Re: Surprised no one mentioned Ford's decision to axe North American sedans

    To be fair, ford was selling 30K Fusions a month just a few years ago. It's not like the Fusion is a crappy product or anything compared to the competition.

    As SciFrog just pointed out, Rav4 is now the best selling vehicle. The trends is pretty obvious to me. 

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-01-16/why-the-american-sedan-is-marked-for-death


    Re: Surprised no one mentioned Ford's decision to axe North American sedans

    Shale oil extraction cost is now $30, you do the math... One issue thoug is to get the oil out of the Permian bassin, oil there is about $7 cheaper than the Cushing benchmark...


    Re: Surprised no one mentioned Ford's decision to axe North American sedans

    SciFrog:

    Shale oil extraction cost is now $30, you do the math... One issue thoug is to get the oil out of the Permian bassin, oil there is about $7 cheaper than the Cushing benchmark...

     

    One of my buddy has gone back to measuring stuff he buys in barrels. 

    For a while he was using real cash Smiley


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    Re: Surprised no one mentioned Ford's decision to axe North American sedans

    noone1:

    To be fair, ford was selling 30K Fusions a month just a few years ago. It's not like the Fusion is a crappy product or anything compared to the competition.

    As SciFrog just pointed out, Rav4 is now the best selling vehicle. The trends is pretty obvious to me. 

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-01-16/why-the-american-sedan-is-marked-for-death

    For once we are in agreement.  Ford is riding the trend as U.S. consumers shift away from sedans toward CUVs and SUVs.  Ford can shift sedans from other world markets if demand should change in the next few years without much effort.  A few have comment here about higher fuel costs in the States', however, today's CUVs and SUVs are significantly more fuel efficient than in years' past so higher fuel costs will have less impact with consumers.  


    Re: Surprised no one mentioned Ford's decision to axe North American sedans

    Lincoln is on its death bed and it's only matter of time when Ford pulls the plug.

    I still believe SUV's are in trouble because of demographics. The younger generation doesn't like cars and hates big ones. They believe in smaller families and recognize they will live below their parents standard of living.


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    Where the willingness is great, the difficulties cannot be great.


    Re: Surprised no one mentioned Ford's decision to axe North American sedans

    nberry:

    Lincoln is on its death bed and it's only matter of time when Ford pulls the plug.

    I still believe SUV's are in trouble because of demographics. The younger generation doesn't like cars and hates big ones. They believe in smaller families and recognize they will live below their parents standard of living.

    There is still a market for the foreseeable future with Lincoln and SUVs. The Navigator is a huge success and profit center for Ford.  It is quite reminiscent of the late 1990s when Ford’s Wayne, Michigan assembly plant was responsible for one-third of Ford’s global profits.  Most of these products are BOF, so model updates are relatively low cost.  Cars, on the other hand, are more expensive to develop.  Also recall that Porsche, and soon Lamborghini, are SUV-centric manufacturers, with Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz not too far behind.  Even Volkswagen is switching to a more SUV/CUV-centric product portfolio.  


    Re: Surprised no one mentioned Ford's decision to axe North American sedans

    nberry:

    I still believe SUV's are in trouble because of demographics. The younger generation doesn't like cars and hates big ones. They believe in smaller families and recognize they will live below their parents living rooms in the basement...

    There, I have corrected Nick’s statement to reflect the dominant trend.....Smiley


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    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: Surprised no one mentioned Ford's decision to axe North American sedans

    Well they follow what people want......


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    993 c2


    Re: Surprised no one mentioned Ford's decision to axe North American sedans

    The Real Reason Ford Is Phasing Out Its Sedans - The Wall Street Journal https://apple.news/AzVkTbJUBTkyc_4Jq5wEW8w


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    Where the willingness is great, the difficulties cannot be great.


    Re: Surprised no one mentioned Ford's decision to axe North American sedans

    nberry:

    The Real Reason Ford Is Phasing Out Its Sedans - The Wall Street Journal https://apple.news/AzVkTbJUBTkyc_4Jq5wEW8w

    This is also why each generation of recent 911 is getting larger too: regulations.  


    Re: Surprised no one mentioned Ford's decision to axe North American sedans

    No doubt played a role along with safety requirements.kiss


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    Where the willingness is great, the difficulties cannot be great.


    Re: Surprised no one mentioned Ford's decision to axe North American sedans

    Very interesting article. Perverse incentives at work...

     


     
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