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    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:
    Whoopsy:

    As usual, you Tesla way or the highway. Nothing new here.

     

    You are the one making it about Tesla. I am pointing out you could not use things like your smart phone without a touch screen. You also refuse to understand or comprehend that the touch screen in any of these cars is not vital while driving.      Perhaps reading comprehension is an issue?

     

    Did you miss reading a whole sentence somewhere? 

    It's not even straight targeting Tesla products, other manufacturers are guilty of putting touchscreens in cars🤷🏻‍♂️ Porsches, Mercedes, BMWs, Fords, you name it all abused this 'feature'. But at least in some cases they put in either hard buttons or multi-function buttons outside of the screen for ease of access. 

     

    Oh also, you ever used a Blackberry before? The original smart phone? It doesn't have touchscreen. It has physical QWERTY keyboard, also a couple context sensitive buttons plus a track ball for navigation and scrolling. It doesn't need a touchscreen. It works extremely well. And one can type extremely fast and accurately with those keys, unlike the touchscreen keyboards.


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    Re: Tesla

    Carlos from Spain:
     

    Nick is one of the members here with more first hand knowledge and experience with EVs in the forum, and certainly much more than you and I, so he doesn't own one because he has no clue, on the contrary and he doesn't like them, but this is something you can't get your head around for some reason.

     

    Few years ago, the only game in town for EV was Tesla. Well it's either Tesla or the Leaf, the best selling EV.

    Leaf doesn't interest me. And I drove a Model 3 before and just can't bring myself to like it. From cheap quality, fit and finish, to illogical ergonomics to uncomfortable chairs, you name it. It's a one trick pony, it can go really fast in a straight line and that's about it. 

    When the Taycan was announced, I didn't even bothered to pre-order one as I wasn't interested in an EV, and I could have had one of the early ones cause of my status with Porsche.

    Fast forward to about 3 ish years ago I read online about Audi releasing a EV SUV. Not long after I was on my way to Whistler for a weekend getaway and I happened to follow a new e-Tron on a test drive. I was intrigued and wanted to see it in person so I followed it back to the dealership, which is like the next corner. I walked up to the salesman that just got off the car and went out on a test drive myself. I was impressed. It drives like a normal car, it feels like a normal car, it behaves like a normal car, very different feel than inside a Model 3. Ergonomics is top notch, everything is exactly where I expect them to be. I basically feel like I am driving a electric version of a Q5/Q7. It was far roomier than anything Tesla, for both people and cargo. Shorter range was never an issue, it's mostly a school run car and for putting around town, I have my Panamera hybrid for long road trips. After the test drive I bought the car straightaway, well I leased it. Didn't want to get stuck with some old tech in a rapidly advancing field. 

    Not long after I was at Porsche dealership for car service, I walked out with my first Taycan. I literally just randomly picked one off the lot and drove off. It was a 4S as I wanted to see if I can live with only a 4S and not a turbo or turbo S. I tested drove a turbo before. And if I think it isn't quick enough I will just order a higher trim instead. 

    After spending oh about 5-6 months with the Taycan 4S, I liked it so much I was gonna custom order one, but Porsche announced the Cross Turismo so I switched my order to that. And I am sticking to the 4S as it is plenty powerful enough, I didn't not for once feel like I needed more power. The Taycan felt every bit a proper sports sedan. 

    You all already knew about the accident and the Polestar 2 rental. I was mightily impressed by the little Polestar. Smaller car on the outside than the Taycan but roomier inside and also more cargo room. Not even 'expensive'. For that price, why would someone get a Model 3 over the Polestar 2? The Polestar simply is a much better deal, great fit and finishing inside and out. Did I mention the little guy can handles? It can be throw around corners like it's a Taycan!

    Then in comes the pink Taycan wagon, nothing new to add. Same as the old, just with a bigger trunk.

    The Mach e literally just fell on my lap. I wasn't 'planning' to buy one, I was happy with just one EV, the Taycan, after I returned the e-Tron at lease end. Call it impulse buy or whatever. I tried to justify it as a replacement to my SUV, the e-Tron. It do served that purpose. There are times when I do need the extra room over the wagon. it isn't fast, won't do 4 seconds 0-60, but it doesn't need to, it's my default school run car and golfing car when I am transporting more than myself. Also again, like the Polestar, for the price, I can't see someone picking a Model Y over the Mach e, fit and finish and material usage is much better and even Ford's version of advance cruise control, Blue Cruise, is better than Autopilot, it has sensors right in front of me for monitoring driver attention. Still never used it, also not planning to. I can drive properly, I don't need a car to drive for me. Real world range is ~460km, a Model Y will be hard pressed to do that in the real world, despite what the government rating says. 

    The only EV I 'planned' to buy is the Ford Lightning. should be here end of Oct. And that would be the 6th EV I will be on. Everything else wasn't a planned purchase, not even the custom config pink Taycan, I did that cause I was mightily impressed by the first Taycan I bought randomly.

    There are other EVs I wanted to try/buy, namely the Ioniq 5, but they are impossible to get. I am 'warming' up to the BMW iX, but still can't get over the ugly nose yet. 

    After spending time with 5 different EVs, there isn't a perfect EV period. Each car has it's strength and weaknesses, it's a trade off the buyer will have to decide what they value more and what's their priorities. There are EVs big and small, fast and slow, cheap and pricy. So many choices now as there isn't a Tesla monopoly anymore.

    I do not have 'one' EV to recommend, well maybe the Ioniq 5 as that's currently the best allrounder. Advance tech like the Taycan and same super fast charging speed. Relatively cheap buy in price. Passenger space just as good as the Mach e but less cargo room. Handles ok, good enough, sort of swift enough in traffic also. Great range but that's a moot point as all modern EVs are capable of doing ~400km, but it will recharge faster than just about anything else if one is not charging at home. 

    For someone looking for painless and ease of charging, Tesla is a no brainer, the Supercharger network just works. 

    For someone looking fro luxury EVs, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Porsche. 

    Mainstream? Ioniq 5, EV6, Mach e, etc.

    Cute? Mini EV.

    Cheap? Nothing beats the Chevy Bolt EV and EUV. A host of Hyundai offerings, Nissan Leaf.

    Pickup? There is Rivian, Lightning, Hummer. 

    Like I said before, free market is a beautiful thing, so many choices, no one is forced to buy one brand anymore.


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    Re: Tesla

    Gee, I guess FSD is more difficult than Musk thought in 2015.  This time the latest version of FSD is fooled by different physical sizes of stop signs.  https://www.thedrive.com/news/teslas-can-be-tricked-into-stopping-too-early-by-bigger-stop-signs  Makes one wonder what other uncovered bombs exist in that wonderfully expensive $15,000 option.  


    Re: Tesla

    CGX car nut:

    Gee, I guess FSD is more difficult than Musk thought in 2015.  This time the latest version of FSD is fooled by different physical sizes of stop signs.  https://www.thedrive.com/news/teslas-can-be-tricked-into-stopping-too-early-by-bigger-stop-signs  Makes one wonder what other uncovered bombs exist in that wonderfully expensive $15,000 option.  

    The wonderful thing is that all of the advances trickle down to the totally free and best in class autopilot. It will also save more lives in the long run thanks to all the incredible efforts - despite totally ignorant people who have nothing better to do with their time than criticize for the benefit of automakers who treat their customers like shit.  So glad the majority of people can handle success and technical advancement and see it as a good thing. 

    And I don’t ever recall a time when one was forced to buy a particular EV. I do recall when there were less poor choices available. Just because there are choices does not make them good at all. I trust everyone at this point knows better than to discount a car without trying it - regardless of non sense here about Tesla - you should try one first and not rely on the childlike tantrum reporting you see here. There are millions of reasons why it is the most valuable car company and just as many for the rest of the industry to fight to the death.  You are all grown ups. You see what is going on here and you all know plenty about cars to know when people are being merely contrarian. 



    Re: Tesla

    Apparently it's a staged fake fire to simulate what could happen with damages to the underside, but the actually batteries weren't ignited due to safety reasons with the audience. 


    Re: Tesla

    Jeremy Clarkson on how electric car batteries will fix UK's energy crisis.   https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19621307/electric-car-batteries-energy-crisis-jeremy-clarkson/

     


    Re: Tesla



    And I don’t ever recall a time when one was forced to buy a particular EV. I do recall when there were less poor choices available. Just because there are choices does not make them good at all. I trust everyone at this point knows better than to discount a car without trying it - regardless of non sense here about Tesla - you should try one first and not rely on the childlike tantrum reporting you see here. There are millions of reasons why it is the most valuable car company and just as many for the rest of the industry to fight to the death.  You are all grown ups. You see what is going on here and you all know plenty about cars to know when people are being merely contrarian. 

     

    That's cool. You practice what you preaches? You ever try driving other EVs other than Teslas? 

    If I count the Taycan and Taycan wagon as 1, I have driven 5 different kinds of EVs already, that includes a Model 3. The 6th different one, the Lightning, will be arriving soon.  Actually we should add one more, both my Taycans are 4S, but I have had a Taycan turbo as a curtesy car. 3 more hybrids that can be used just like and EV also. What's the count? 9? Could be 10. You close to that number?

    I don't blindly worship one brand. I just shoot it straight, if something it's good I say it, if something is bad I say it too, I won't be an apologist trying to defend one brand. No need, facts are facts. I don't even defend the Taycan. It's a great sports sedan, but with Audi making a sister car on the same platform, the Audi is a better buy since it's cheaper. arguably with a better interior also. The Mercedes EQS is a better sedan, much roomier than the Taycan. Never would I think I would say Hyundai make a great car. yet they have proven more wrong, their Ioniq 5 is the top of the class right now for mainstream EV. 

    Just a few years ago, if one wanted to buy an EV, doesn't matter if you are John Doe down the street or a multibillionaire, you are forced to buy a Tesla, as they are basically the only game in town, the Leaf is another but that one isn't at Tesla's level, but the price is right so it  was the best selling EV for the longest time. Now the billionaire isn't forced to buy a Tesla any more, they can buy better and more luxurious EVs from Mercedes or Porsche or the Lucid Air, think the Air is the most expensive EV one can buy right now.

    Being the 'most valuable car company'? Enron was once the most valuable energy company too, so is WorldCom as the most valuable telecommunication company. Valuation means nothing. Actually it does for Elon, he NEEDS TSLA price to remain high to fund his bank loans. 

    You love your Model 3, we all know that. You had adapted to al the features offered by Elon, nice. What YOU think is 'logical' inside the Tesla doesn't mean it's logical to everyone. I love my old Cayenne too, I am so used to the car, I can find and press any button on the console without looking, just by feel. I think that's completely natural, others will think that's crazy. I also know exactly where all the 'buttons' are in my Panamera, but I can't do it by feel as they are all touch buttons and I can't navigate my fingers using touch and feel, I had to take my eyes off the road to look at it to use it, even when I know exactly where they are. 

     

     


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    Re: Tesla

    The Plaid is such a 'great' car, in 30 years people will hunt for them like how we are hunting 964s. 

    Not!

    In 30 years the Plaids will be rotting somewhere still waiting for Elon to figure out how to recycle his batteries. 

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Picked up my new 2022 Tesla Model 3 performance today. Feels like a more polished product from my 2020 model 3 performance. Front windows are doubled glazed for one. The ride is more balanced but still very direct. It also charges much faster for longer than my old one. Ordered it in July so didn’t have to wait too long. My Taycan Turbo which was built early July still won’t be here until end of November due to a shortage of 12v batteries. Very disappointing. 


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    2022 992 GT3. 2019 BMW M850i Convertible. 2020 Tesla Model 3 Performance. 2020 Aston Martin Vantage. 2020 Mclaren 720S coupe. 🥳


    Re: Tesla

    How's the quality? Did they use better materials inside compared to the old version? Fit and finish? Higher resolution cameras all around? 

    I gathered all the bodywork outside remains the same, but are the panels fitted better?

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:

    How's the quality? Did they use better materials inside compared to the old version? Fit and finish? Higher resolution cameras all around? 

    I gathered all the bodywork outside remains the same, but are the panels fitted better?

     

    I still have my 2020 Tesla and, recently drove the BMW i4 M50 and Taycan Turbo S

    In comparison to my 2020 Tesla the panel fit is much better. The interior is a higher quality and they seemed to have focused on what you touch. The steering wheel feels smaller and the small number of buttons all feel better quality and more positive. To drive it has a left brittle ride but feels a little less go kart like. But it still drives like a very small nimble and powerful car. 

    Compared to the BMW (which I also have on order) the BMW feels a step up in quality. The power delivery isn’t as instant even in sport boost mode and it doesn’t feel as nimble. I prefer the Tesla to drive and I am a long time BMW fan. Let’s see when I get my own i4. 

    Taycan is a big step above the BMW in quality. Power delivery more like the Tesla and a more polish drive than the Tesla in all respects. The Tesla seems to be not far off the charge performance of the Taycan but it far too early to confirm this. 

    The big advantage for Tesla - you can get one. It will be a year from initial order to delivery for both my i4 and Taycan.  hopefully they aren’t delayed any further. 
     


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    2022 992 GT3. 2019 BMW M850i Convertible. 2020 Tesla Model 3 Performance. 2020 Aston Martin Vantage. 2020 Mclaren 720S coupe. 🥳


    Re: Tesla

    kiss

    Good to hear Tesla has actually made a marked difference on improving what's needed for it's price class. With the frequent price hikes, a Model 3 had actually moved up at least a couple price brackets if not more already. Material usage is just started to catch up.

    The ride, well they needed better shocks. A heavy car will always need stiffer springs, that's what made it feel like a go kart, which has no suspension. Better damper-ed shocks will smooth out the harshness and bounce after a bump. My Mach e feels the same, it has stiff springs but inadequate dampers. Taycan has air suspension so it will be far superior than anything else, but on the Polestar 2, it has stiff springs also but it got KW dampers, those did wonders. 

    Model 3 won't get too close in charging performance, while Tesla advertise a really high peak, that's just for very low charge state and also it gets ramped down quite quickly, they had been stretching the duration longer but it's just physics. For the amount of current they are trying to push through at 400V to get to that peak, a lot of heat is also produced so they had no choice to cut power. 

    And yes you are absolutely right about availability. Right now if I get out of the house and go buy a EV, the only 2 that I can drive home right now is a Model 3/Y or a Chevy Bolt. Every other EVs for sale right now are one 12-24 month wait. I can't even buy a Hyundai e Niro off the lot right now. 


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    Re: Tesla

    @EnglishManInNY

    I do have a Tesla 3 Performance (MY2020) as daily driver and for my wife we’ve been looking for an alternative to our  AMG C43T so we were test driving various cars:

    BMW i4 M50 which we disliked a lot as the price/ value ratio isn’t right at all. The performance is inferior to the M3P, we didn’t like the ride feeling even if the built quality is better than Tesla’s BUT the range is ridiculous!

    Same situation with the Audi e-Tron GT, very nice and cool ride BUT the price is double as high as the Tesla 3/ Y Performance and we couldn’t drive more than 300km.

    The Polestar 2 Performance which we liked a lot is in the same ball park, driving was lots of fun BUT again the battery range is very bad.

    We’ve been looking into Mercedes EQE 43 & 53 BUT even though we do like the built quality and the looks a lot we don’t like the price which is really huge considering the small (if any) performance advantage to the Tesla Model Y Performance which we finally ordered.

    We were told to take delivery EoY 22, the built quality became considerably better compared to the M3P and the car is extremely “roomy”

    BTW we’ve been driving BMW i3s (94aH and 120aH) for the last 5 years and still like the looks of the car and the gokart feeling this tiny car provides…



    Re: Tesla

    "Many of the owners' complaints aren't exactly new. For example, just a few of the major issues noted are poor paint quality, rust, inability to meet claimed battery life, failing heat pumps, stuck door handles in the cold, and yellowing infotainment screens (that Tesla told the NHTSA were only meant to last "5-6 years" anyway). Other issues can be found easily on owners' forums. For example, issues with the car's lights, bubbling seats, water collecting in the trunk, loose trim pieces, and reduced power."



    Re: Tesla

    Schadenfreude aside - seems like the X did a good job preventing injuries. Tesla 1, humans 0. 

    A full grown deer 🦌 came out of nowhere a couple of nights ago - I live in the suburbs - and my car saw it coming at me in the dark from the left side and stopped from 50 mph in split second. Deer bounced harmlessly off the right side of the car. I was blown away as I never even saw it in the dark.  Tesla 1, Deer 1. 


    Re: Tesla

    https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/tesla/model-y/46618
     

    model y. Safest car on the road. 


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:

    Schadenfreude aside - seems like the X did a good job preventing injuries. Tesla 1, humans 0. 

    A full grown deer 🦌 came out of nowhere a couple of nights ago - I live in the suburbs - and my car saw it coming at me in the dark from the left side and stopped from 50 mph in split second. Deer bounced harmlessly off the right side of the car. I was blown away as I never even saw it in the dark.  Tesla 1, Deer 1. 

     

    I had encountered 3 deers crossing the highway on my way to Indy. Didn't hit any one of them. I should have those on the footage of my GPS/dash cam. still on the way back to me.

    That would put Porsche/human driver that's attentive,  at 3, Tesla 1, deer 1.

     Porsche wins. Human driver wins. 

    My Panamera had night vision, so it can see stuff and then alert me. It detected a couple of deers which I also saw and evaded. That should add 2 more to the score. 

    Now it stands at: Attentive driver 5, Tesla 1, deer 1. Clear winner for human driver.

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Whoopsy:
    Leawood911:

    Schadenfreude aside - seems like the X did a good job preventing injuries. Tesla 1, humans 0. 

    A full grown deer 🦌 came out of nowhere a couple of nights ago - I live in the suburbs - and my car saw it coming at me in the dark from the left side and stopped from 50 mph in split second. Deer bounced harmlessly off the right side of the car. I was blown away as I never even saw it in the dark.  Tesla 1, Deer 1. 

     

    I had encountered 3 deers crossing the highway on my way to Indy. Didn't hit any one of them. I should have those on the footage of my GPS/dash cam. still on the way back to me.

    That would put Porsche/human driver that's attentive,  at 3, Tesla 1, deer 1.

     Porsche wins. Human driver wins. 

    My Panamera had night vision, so it can see stuff and then alert me. It detected a couple of deers which I also saw and evaded. That should add 2 more to the score. 

    Now it stands at: Attentive driver 5, Tesla 1, deer 1. Clear winner for human driver.

     

    Smiley


    Re: Tesla

    I have seen and avoided thousands of deer and a few moose as well. Sometimes though you just don’t see them in time regardless of how good you are. This was one of those times and I have to say the Tesla did what I or a normal car could not have done. Clearly. 


    Re: Tesla

    Leawood911:

    I have seen and avoided thousands of deer and a few moose as well. Sometimes though you just don’t see them in time regardless of how good you are. This was one of those times and I have to say the Tesla did what I or a normal car could not have done. Clearly. 

     

    Tesla's avoidance system is only about the front, oncoming stuff, something easily accomplished by attentive drivers, nothing new.

    Tesla's system, however, cannot avoid stuff coming from the side or back. Would it be able to see a car coming up behind and can't quite stop in time? An attentive driver checking mirrors while stopped can see something coming up, and can move forward or even out of the way to avoid a collision. 

    How about side incoming collision? Would the Tesla system knows to accelerate more and move out of the way? 

    No system can beat an attentive driver.

     


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    Re: Tesla

    Actually the deer came at high speed from the left and the car picked it up perfectly. In the dark running fast from left to right it was impossible to see. If it had been in front it would not have been an issue for me at all. Has nothing to do with inattentive - it was an additional safety net and worked perfectly. There are many ways to help an attentive driver. Accidents happen very quickly and the driver has little to do with them sometimes. 
    There are many examples of Tesla’s not proceeding into intersections where cross traffic is not slowing down by mistake. 
    It can also detect people about to rear-end you. If it can’t move forward it will beep and warn you of the possible impact. The autopilot system is always active in the background and able to help out in a split second if needed. If constantly benefits from over the air updates which improve the system with the latest FSD learnings. All without paying for FSD. 


    Re: Tesla

    IMG_1639.JPG


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    Re: Tesla

    https://www.tesla.com/supercharger

    You will notice that any Tesla can make the drive across the country on i-70 or i-80 or i-90 or in Canada.  It is hilarious that you think it impossible because you could not 'see' them but it explains a bit.  Tesla's of course navigate you directly to each charger and they are directly off the highways you were on (interstates).  Each less than 150 miles apart.tesla.jpg


    Re: Tesla

    Heading to charge a Taycan?  One that did not catch a house or the Felicity Ace on fire with 800 volt pyrotechnics.  Smiley