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    Re: Think About It!!!

    He can bitch how much he wants about the 911 increasing in size and weight but the car is still greater than what the competitors have to offer. Though I have to say that the Z06 is a very good sports car with an attractive pricetag.

    Re: Think About It!!!

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I recognize there is a bias against US cars in Europe. We have known that for a very long time. As a matter of fact there are biases within countries in Europe. Just look at Germany. Buying an Italian car by a German citizen is disapproved in Germany.




    There is no bias against US cars in Europe. People are just buying what suits them best and I can't see a business man in a Corvette, sorry. There is some sort of prejudice regarding US cars, no doubt about it...regarding reputation (Corvette and to some degree Cadillac) and fuel consumption. But on the other hand, Germany is full of Jeeps, PT Cruisers and Chevrolet Tahoes, especially over here in Bavaria.

    Buying an italian car by a german citizen is disapproved in Germany? Where do you have this urban legend (BS?) from?
    Germany is full of italian cars. If you're referring to Ferrari, thats another story. This is a matter of envy and social status, not a matter of bias towards a car from a specific country. Don't think that my neighbors love me more because I drive a Porsche and not a Ferrari. But since a Porsche is less bling bling and since a Porsche 911 is a pretty common "business man commuter" car over here, people don't care THAT much about a Porsche as they would care about a Ferrari.

    Horst von Saurma can be trusted like I said in many posts. He is a very respected person, one reason why a lot of car manufacturers are providing cars (or not...because they know what happens if the car isn't THAT good... ) for the Supertest in Sport Auto. It is a pitty that you can't read and understand German, you would understand very fast that Horst v. Saurma is really "feeling" and "experiencing" the cars he is testing, with all their pros and cons. But of course he cannot review a car by it's "bling bling" or exclusivity factor, he is a technical type of guy. Plain figures, plain facts...the "feelings" about a car are left for personal preferences.

    Re: Think About It!!!

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:
    http://www.autoextremist.com/page5.shtml#RoadKill



    Right now I'm thinking about something else: why would a Z06 owner come over to a Porsche forum and tell people to "think about it"??? I know the answer but I don't want to offend anybody.

    Be happy with your decision but please do yourself a favor and do what you wrote in your thread title: THINK. And then tell me that it is a very intelligent thing to do to compare a car to another car which isn't even on the market yet. Then THINK again and tell if it is an intelligent thing to do to trust performance claims by the car manufacturer, gossip, rumors, urban legends, well known Corvette fanatics and unconfirmed (by independent sources) track test figures.

    So THINK and come back again...as soon as there will be a trustable COMPARISON test in a few months. Until then, stay with your Z06 pals and leave the big boys do their own thing. We're playing in a different league here.



    RC...Your comments such as you being with "the big boys" and being in "a different league" is exactly the typical German car BS attitude which runs rampant here in So Cal, and in many other places. The arrogance level is just astounding. And as far as needing test figures, how does this grab you: The Z06 has more horsepower, more torque and weighs over 400 pounds less than the 997TT. And, since the Z just eats the 996TT S for breakfast (and I have done just that many times), I seriously doubt if the 997 TT will pose much of a challenge. Live with it!

    Re: Think About It!!!

    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:
    http://www.autoextremist.com/page5.shtml#RoadKill



    Right now I'm thinking about something else: why would a Z06 owner come over to a Porsche forum and tell people to "think about it"??? I know the answer but I don't want to offend anybody.

    Be happy with your decision but please do yourself a favor and do what you wrote in your thread title: THINK. And then tell me that it is a very intelligent thing to do to compare a car to another car which isn't even on the market yet. Then THINK again and tell if it is an intelligent thing to do to trust performance claims by the car manufacturer, gossip, rumors, urban legends, well known Corvette fanatics and unconfirmed (by independent sources) track test figures.

    So THINK and come back again...as soon as there will be a trustable COMPARISON test in a few months. Until then, stay with your Z06 pals and leave the big boys do their own thing. We're playing in a different league here.



    RC...Your comments such as you being with "the big boys" and being in "a different league" is exactly the typical German car BS attitude which runs rampant here in So Cal, and in many other places. The arrogance level is just astounding. And as far as needing test figures, how does this grab you: The Z06 has more horsepower, more torque and weighs over 400 pounds less than the 997TT. And, since the Z just eats the 996TT S for breakfast (and I have done just that many times), I seriously doubt if the 997 TT will pose much of a challenge. Live with it!



    Why are you even here?

    Re: Think About It!!!

    Well,

    RC is talking like Nick,

    Nick is making sense,

    The article was crap like mike said,

    TX 911 explained the market perfectly,

    but even though the 911 is the best it has ever been it should come with engine performance of a GT3 as standard with everything else the same. Porsche should have spent some of that VW investment money on speeding up and not skimping on the panamera and a major overhaul for looks and weight on the cayenne.

    Re: Think About It!!!

    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:I seriously doubt if the 997 TT will pose much of a challenge. Live with it!


    Just because you drive one doesn't mean I have to want one, does it?

    Re: Think About It!!!

    I am soooo BORED reading about the Z06.

    Why don't we talk about the EVO FQ400 which will eat a Z06 for breakfast and spit it out. Or if you really want a sports car what about an Aerial Atom - I think the 0-60 time is 2.9 seconds - how useless does that make a Z06.

    But none of that is relevant because I want to know about the 997TT and thats the car I intend to buy as soon as I can. So please give the Z06 a rest and leave it locked up in the garage.

    Re: Think About It!!!

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    The 100,000 should have been dollars not Euro's. Considering the Z06 in the US sells for around $65,000 how do you account for the difference? If anything the Z06 should be cheaper given the exchange rate.
    Quote:


    If, as you claim, you had intended to compare price in Europe converted back to US$ with the price in the US in US$, where does the "rate of exchange" enter into the equation? Both amounts would be in US$.
    I take that to mean that your understanding of the concept of currency exchange is on the same level as your understanding of everything else in the real world.

    nberry said:
    I recognize there is a bias against US cars in Europe. We have known that for a very long time. As a matter of fact there are biases within countries in Europe. Just look at Germany. Buying an Italian car by a German citizen is disapproved in Germany.
    Old prejudices die hard.
    Quote:


    I have personally owned two Alfa Romeos in Germany.

    Fiat was the biggest import brand to Germany for years, until its poor quality standards allowed other "foreign" brands to overtake it.

    Before that, about 50 years ago, Fiat sold enough cars in Germany to support its own assembly plant here, building "Neckar Fiat" cars.

    Both Fiat and Alfa have been absent from the American market for about 2 decades, but I wouldn't be so dumb as to put that down to "Buying an Italian car by American citizens being disapproved of in America" or "Old prejudices dieing hard".


    nberry said:
    BTW Van Saurma's test if he ever gets one will not be determintive in my view. He also has biases and I have absolutely no confidence in his ability to drive a front engine monster like the Z06.



    I'd have more confidence in your ability to assess von Saurma's ability to drive a car if you knew enough about the guy to be able to spell his name correctly.

    Re: Think About It!!!

    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    RonnieC6Z said:
    http://www.autoextremist.com/page5.shtml#RoadKill



    Right now I'm thinking about something else: why would a Z06 owner come over to a Porsche forum and tell people to "think about it"??? I know the answer but I don't want to offend anybody.

    Be happy with your decision but please do yourself a favor and do what you wrote in your thread title: THINK. And then tell me that it is a very intelligent thing to do to compare a car to another car which isn't even on the market yet. Then THINK again and tell if it is an intelligent thing to do to trust performance claims by the car manufacturer, gossip, rumors, urban legends, well known Corvette fanatics and unconfirmed (by independent sources) track test figures.

    So THINK and come back again...as soon as there will be a trustable COMPARISON test in a few months. Until then, stay with your Z06 pals and leave the big boys do their own thing. We're playing in a different league here.



    RC...Your comments such as you being with "the big boys" and being in "a different league" is exactly the typical German car BS attitude which runs rampant here in So Cal, and in many other places. The arrogance level is just astounding. And as far as needing test figures, how does this grab you: The Z06 has more horsepower, more torque and weighs over 400 pounds less than the 997TT. And, since the Z just eats the 996TT S for breakfast (and I have done just that many times), I seriously doubt if the 997 TT will pose much of a challenge. Live with it!



    Face it - Porsche is in a different league. Since when does a Vette eat a TTS for breakfast? It just barely beats a 500 HP Gallardo (as evidenced by a video, posted not long ago), so how can it "eat a Turbo S for breakfast", when the Turbo S is faster than the Gallardo?
    Here are some numbers that don't exactly support your theory:

    - As measured by R&T in the Viper comparo -

    Time to speed, sec
    0−20 mph ......................... 1.1
    0−40 mph ......................... 2.5
    0−60 mph ......................... 3.9
    0−80 mph ......................... 5.9
    0−100 mph ....................... 8.8

    Time to distance
    0−1320 ft (1/4 mile) ........... 12.2 @ 120.7 mph

    Test weight ................................... 3330 lb

    Seeing as how the 997TT weighs in at about 3400 lbs, I don't see the Porsche-crushing might of the new Vette, especially with those numbers.
    The X50/Turbo S can easily achieve the same 1/4 mile trap speed, with a higher weight none the less. You can only guess what happens at higher speeds, when weight isn't an important factor anymore.
    I respect the Z06 for what it is: an affordable and very fast sports car, but with members of its community barging in here and calling our most senior members ignorant, I have no respect for the owners' community.
    If you don't like our mindset, get out. Enjoy your car and leave us ignorant souls alone.

    Re: Think About It!!!

    Quote:
    Crash said:


    Seeing as how the 997TT weighs in at about 3400 lbs,



    Anybody who thinks the 997tt will weigh less than 3500lbs. needs to get their head examine.

    Re: Think About It!!!

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I recognize there is a bias against US cars in Europe. We have known that for a very long time. As a matter of fact there are biases within countries in Europe. Just look at Germany. Buying an Italian car by a German citizen is disapproved in Germany.

    Old prejudices die hard.

    BTW Van Saurma's test if he ever gets one will not be determintive in my view. He also has biases and I have absolutely no confidence in his ability to drive a front engine monster like the Z06.


    Hmmm...I don't live in Germany but i can tell you that Alfa's and the small Fiat's have a very good image in Germany.German people even forgive the bad reliability.

    Horst von Saurma is a very good driver.Just look at the difference in lap times on the Nurburgring between him and Walter Röhrl.

    If the Z06 is a monster,how would you qualify cars like the CGT,CCR or Zonda?If the Z06 is more difficult to drive than these cars,than it is a very very bad car.

    And how the hell can you judge HvS ability to drive a front engined car when you never read one of his articles?That sounds like an excuse to me.Already.

    I can say that American's can't drive any kind of car...and when I look at the point standings of American racing series,I think that I'm not far from the truth.

    Re: Think About It!!!

    Quote:
    Walter said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I recognize there is a bias against US cars in Europe. We have known that for a very long time. As a matter of fact there are biases within countries in Europe. Just look at Germany. Buying an Italian car by a German citizen is disapproved in Germany.

    Old prejudices die hard.

    BTW Van Saurma's test if he ever gets one will not be determintive in my view. He also has biases and I have absolutely no confidence in his ability to drive a front engine monster like the Z06.


    Hmmm...I don't live in Germany but i can tell you that Alfa's and the small Fiat's have a very good image in Germany.German people even forgive the bad reliability.

    Horst von Saurma is a very good driver.Just look at the difference in lap times on the Nurburgring between him and Walter Röhrl.

    If the Z06 is a monster,how would you qualify cars like the CGT,CCR or Zonda?If the Z06 is more difficult to drive than these cars,than it is a very very bad car.

    And how the hell can you judge HvS ability to drive a front engined car when you never read one of his articles?That sounds like an excuse to me.Already.

    I can say that American's can't drive any kind of car...and when I look at the point standings of American racing series,I think that I'm not far from the truth.



    Wow... the ignorance just keeps getting deeper.

    Re: Think About It!!!

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Face it - Porsche is in a different league. Since when does a Vette eat a TTS for breakfast? It just barely beats a 500 HP Gallardo (as evidenced by a video, posted not long ago), so how can it "eat a Turbo S for breakfast", when the Turbo S is faster than the Gallardo?
    Here are some numbers that don't exactly support your theory:

    - As measured by R&T in the Viper comparo -

    Time to speed, sec
    0−20 mph ......................... 1.1
    0−40 mph ......................... 2.5
    0−60 mph ......................... 3.9
    0−80 mph ......................... 5.9
    0−100 mph ....................... 8.8

    Time to distance
    0−1320 ft (1/4 mile) ........... 12.2 @ 120.7 mph

    Test weight ................................... 3330 lb

    Seeing as how the 997TT weighs in at about 3400 lbs, I don't see the Porsche-crushing might of the new Vette, especially with those numbers.
    The X50/Turbo S can easily achieve the same 1/4 mile trap speed, with a higher weight none the less. You can only guess what happens at higher speeds, when weight isn't an important factor anymore.
    I respect the Z06 for what it is: an affordable and very fast sports car, but with members of its community barging in here and calling our most senior members ignorant, I have no respect for the owners' community.
    If you don't like our mindset, get out. Enjoy your car and leave us ignorant souls alone.



    I can post a video of a Ferrari 360 Stradale beating a Gallardo from a roll in a Japanese test.And actually,even the the regular 360 and GT3 could have beaten the Lambo...

    edit:

    Re: Think About It!!!

    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    [Wow... the ignorance just keeps getting deeper.


    Elaborate,please.

    Re: Think About It!!!

    Quote:
    gbj said:
    Why don't we talk about the EVO FQ400 which will eat a Z06 for breakfast and spit it out. Or if you really want a sports car what about an Aerial Atom - I think the 0-60 time is 2.9 seconds - how useless does that make a Z06.


    The Z06 is faster than the FQ400 (more weight, less power and worse weight distrubution, smaller tires, etc.)

    However, I agree about the Ariel Atom - that thing smokes

     
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