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    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    A Man and his Lion kill, a slow eater.

    IMG_2989.jpeg


    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    watt:

     

     

    Eric,

     -- can you tell me the species of trees in the open, and in the forest?


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

     

     

    The ones in the open on the first pic are Mugo Pine ( Pinus mugus uncinata )

    The ones in the forest are most probably Spruce ( Picea ) 

    Also lots of White Fir in this region but the Spruce has taken over. 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    Ahh,

    Mugos are the only pine that the Elk don't eat so you see them here.

    The Poods ready to load up. Nobody's tracks but theirs.

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    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    For those aficionados of the Raptor, Sabre got an ARE cap with toolboxes on the sides.  Combined with the Deck drawers, it's the TITZ for all his winter gear. Even for someone is messy and him.... and Daddy, they can find their stuff.

    IMG_3135.jpeg


    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    Time to get a RAM TRX... indecision

    You have to love these RAM Easter Eggs... blush

    h1a3053-1601561200.jpg

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    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    Those are funny. More and more cars are including things like these, if I remember correctly the Jeep Wrangler has a ton of them, and some of the new Volvos too. 


    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    I don't see value in trying the Ram, as I said prior, they want ten over, so no rush, plus who knows if it's any good for my use until proven.

    Right now as Eric said, it's all about the tyres:  These Brigestone k02s suck in deep snow.  My LT315/70R17 D 121/118Q Nokian Hakkapeliitta LT3 Studded Winter Truck tyres arrive Friday, let's hope they do the job.

    Had to turn around and park here, the ko2s are so fkg hopeless.

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    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    I need snowshoes for the truck!

     

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    Or Labrador 4 WD!!!

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    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    wf_web_650x800_products_asx.jpg

    The studs will mainly help on the hard and  ice  bits on the road ( sometimes there is some under the deep snow, sometimes not ) 

    To go though the serious deep you need the above ( or similar )  indecision


    --

     

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

     


    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    Haha,

    They look like snow shoes!!!!

    The Crewe finishes off another Lion kill.yesterday, and today .... the boys spent an hour chomping an Elk, while Sun Ra hiked back with me with her Deer leg for snacks...   then Heidi their vet said:  Everyone's getting fat!!!  Cut back that Elk!!!  Good luck....

    IMG_3175.jpeg


    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    The Hakkas should be a 200% improvement.  Summer all terrain tires usually just don't have either the right compound, or the siping, that they would need to be effective in winter.   But just as a refresher, what is the AWD system the Raptor uses?  Is there still an open rear diff for example, or is it lockable?  How many wheels are really getting power when the going gets slippy?   Also curious if you had the Rover on these same roads and conditions, or was that location different enough not to be a comparison.  


    --

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2019 Porsche 911 Turbo


    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    4trac:

    The Hakkas should be a 200% improvement.  Summer all terrain tires usually just don't have either the right compound, or the siping, that they would need to be effective in winter.   But just as a refresher, what is the AWD system the Raptor uses?  Is there still an open rear diff for example, or is it lockable?  How many wheels are really getting power when the going gets slippy?   Also curious if you had the Rover on these same roads and conditions, or was that location different enough not to be a comparison.  

    Slippery mode is 4WD Auto, like all wheel mode in other cars, which allows slip, but you can manually lock the diff.  Deep snow mode is FT 4Wd and locks the diff with a diff button.  On ice or packed snow slippery works and is improved with lower pressures. Deep snow mode in deep snow is terrible and slippery locked or unlocked hardly better. These tyres are a summer compound but "severe snow rated".heart

    The RR had a diff lock feature if I recall correctly, but you have one and can report.

    The RR with Pirelli winters, was way better in deep snow, same roads.  I expect the hakkas to be a great step to safety and ability, which you confirm.  Any more you can say about them, is appreciated.  I hope they're on the truck next week.

     


    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    Interesting.  From what I had read the Raptor spans all options from pure RWD to Auto AWD as you note, to full time.  I would never use Auto in your conditions, as in my experience this part-time AWD is just too slow to respond to slip, and guarantees you will lose momentum when you don't want this.  But in principle the full time 4wd, especially with locked dif, should ensure all wheels are getting some power.  

    Land Rover isn't given much credit for it, but their AWD is a pretty good system IMO.  They do not use any part time at all, always AWD subject to the terrain response system, and their sensors are excellent at apportioning torque and keeping all wheels with traction moving.  So my guess is that your problems are 80% tires - just expecting too much from summer biased tires - and maybe 20% that the Ford's traction control is just a tad less sophisticated than the Rover's was.  I know Ford tested the Raptor for ages over desert dunes etc, but did they winter test?  yes

    We had this two weeks ago; no forest trails just a dead-end crescent in a small city... only trucks were moving for four days.  And my RR (Pirelli winters likely same as your old one) could start and stop anywhere with no drama - admittedly flat, but .5-.8 metres of wind driven snow.  

    _G200343.jpg


    --

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2019 Porsche 911 Turbo


    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    I agree that RR's 4wd is excellent, the issue is it's been city-fied and slicked out so much, too many parts get pulled off when you go through brush, so it deteriorates quickly under my use [not that I havent creased the Raptor]. It also is much faster than the Raptor on the road.

    Yes the Raptor goes from 2 wd in Sport mode, to 4A in Slippery o FT 4 locked in both snow/mud and Low Rock Crawl modes.  I can feel the momentum loss from slip as you mention in 4A, but 4 locked drives right off the road in deep snow.

    My guess is the Raptor was optimised for Baja Mode for their ads - high speed dirt, and it's stunningly solid.  As I've mentioned, the rock crawl gearing is too high, and we will see how it is in snow fairly once the Hakkas go on Sunday.  We'll see if your 80/20 analysis proves out.  I think it's pretty close.

    SK gets some snow, eh? I think that was the same storm as our 26" dump.

     


    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    Yep, that was our Montana snow.... no worries, it will melt back... come April angry.  And no Aussie sunshine this travel year as well... 


    --

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2019 Porsche 911 Turbo


    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    Try that Land Cruiser to solve your problems


    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    cnc:

    Try that Land Cruiser to solve your problems

    As previously mentioned it was delivered w 3 season tyres which are fkg scary, the Blizzaks got on next week


    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    Life on shoes until it snows again.

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    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    A nesting Labradorsmiley

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    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    Daddy,

    We're almost done, give us another minute.

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    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    First report on the Hakkas -  42 psi, 34F. 12-15" snow untracked.

    IMG_3273.jpeg

    Went up the same forest trail, 2 miles past where the Raptor is pictured parked above in this thread. The untracked snow was12-15" heavy, and very cement-like in the sunny areas.  The tyres go once you get the hang of it:  I ran in deep snow mode [FT 4H with diff locked], you use alot of gas in M2 gear keeping revs up to 3k [it's mostly uphill on way in], and steering aggressively: a half turn is normal.  But it stays on the "road", able to go 12-15 mph.

    You can tell by the up-bound V channels, not tyre tracks, that the wheels were spinning faster than the car was going almost all the time.

    IMG_3275 2.jpeg

    We could've run in another half mile until you need Low Range.  We tested Low a bit just in L2, but car just spins in place, presumably from torque.  The RR definitely has better LR software for snow.

    On 4 miles of packed snow and ice on the way in, we ran slippery mode [2A, no diff lock] and could drive 10-15 mph faster than with the Ko2s, the studs making corners low anxiety.

    All in all, a great winter tyre.


    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    These are very tough snow conditions, lots of friction due to the heavy snow, presumably you have had a lot off thaw/freeze since the big snowfall.  The warm 34F does not help you either, that means a lot of water content in this snow (which is why it is turning to cement) and water reduces traction a lot.  At say 10F you would have much more traction; cold is your friend....wink  So better traction lies ahead....


    --

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2019 Porsche 911 Turbo


    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    Looks like a lot of fun, Watt. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes GLC63 S AMG (2020), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk (2019 EU)


    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    That is serious snow driving ! !!  Glad the tires made that much of a difference.  I would not want to be stuck there.... having to shovel for a few hours is no fun . 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    I am curious to know if your Land Cruiser wouldn't be the better choice with similar tyres?


    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    watt:

    First report on the Hakkas -  42 psi, 34F. 12-15" snow untracked.

    ...

    All in all, a great winter tyre.

    Glad to hear it. Smiley


    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    Gnil:

    That is serious snow driving ! !!  Glad the tires made that much of a difference.  I would not want to be stuck there.... having to shovel for a few hours is no fun . 

    Ah yes Eric,

    and if you slide off here going down hill, you're in the river 25' below and your truck is thrre til May.  Had to set our homeward bounds beers down every so often.

    IMG_3276.jpeg

     


    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    Home sweet home! 

    The great thing about the Hakkas is we get in far enough to shoe up to our home country in just a couple hourskiss

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    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    Sun, Snow, Shoes and Shorts!

    IMG_3255.jpeg


    Re: SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)

    4trac:

    These are very tough snow conditions, lots of friction due to the heavy snow, presumably you have had a lot off thaw/freeze since the big snowfall.  The warm 34F does not help you either, that means a lot of water content in this snow (which is why it is turning to cement) and water reduces traction a lot.  At say 10F you would have much more traction; cold is your friend....wink  So better traction lies ahead....

    I misspoke, it was actually 39F so even wetter.  

    Colder, at least sub 32F coming so thanks we shall see!!!  At moment, the freeze thaw is creating hoarfrost with cystals as long as 2" and diamonds glinting everywhere.

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