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    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    918 hp is not enough?


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Whoopsy:

    And I tend to believe Ferrari overestimate the market and the price for the LaFerrari, had that car been priced at 800-900k, it would have been a major success, but Ferrari got greedy and priced in the 2nd hand 'flip' price, so time will tell if their strategy is correct or not.

    Might as well. No reason to let people flip your car for a profit that you could just earn yourself initially. I think it's priced at a good spot to remove the speculators and maximize profit. Believe it or not, trying to flip a $1.3M limited Ferrari is not risk free. Depending on where you live, you could end up paying $60-100K in sales tax on top of the price. So all in you're looking at $1.4M and you need to profit still.

    Whether it's a limited Ferrari or not, the market for $1.6M cars is absolutely tiny and most of the people who would buy such a car could have probably gotten one in the first place.

    And then there is the thought of who has $1.4M laying around who is interested in flipping cars?


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    And this is why McLaren and Ferrari is having trouble filling up the sales target. There will always be 'flippers' and if you take away the flippers' allocation there will not be 874 buyers in the world willing to pay 1.3 mil for car. 

    The 918 is comfortably under the 1mil mark, while it has sold more than the 499 LaFerrari production, it is still way off the 918 total production target. The current financial situation is not conductive to people spending 800k+ for a toy. 

    Ferrari is just trying to cash in their nameplate with the LaFerrari, McLaren on the other hand is trying to sell more MP4-12C with the P1. Since the P1 is quite well known to be based on the 12C, for those that can't afford the P1 or not willing to spend 1.3mil to buy the P1, the 12C looks awfully attractive even at the current price point. 90% of the performance at 1/4 of the price. A bargain really.

     


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    McLaren made one fatal mistake imo -- no center seating. I guarantee they'd be sold out if it had the F1 seating position.


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Whoopsy:

    And this is why McLaren and Ferrari is having trouble filling up the sales target. There will always be 'flippers' and if you take away the flippers' allocation there will not be 874 buyers in the world willing to pay 1.3 mil for car. 

    Perhaps, though to be fair, Ferrari sees people willing to spend $900K-1.x million on used Enzos. The Enzo isn't really that old and far from 'classic' Ferrari status.

    I just don't think it would make sense to sell the latest and greatest for less the previous models are going for. If people say they'll pay $1M for an Enzo, then I'm sure they'd be willing to pay at least $1M for the new, better, cooler version. Especially if it's equally limited.


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    wedouglas:
    Whoopsy:

    And this is why McLaren and Ferrari is having trouble filling up the sales target. There will always be 'flippers' and if you take away the flippers' allocation there will not be 874 buyers in the world willing to pay 1.3 mil for car. 

    Perhaps, though to be fair, Ferrari sees people willing to spend $900K-1.x million on used Enzos. The Enzo isn't really that old and far from 'classic' Ferrari status.

    I just don't think it would make sense to sell the latest and greatest for less the previous models are going for. If people say they'll pay $1M for an Enzo, then I'm sure they'd be willing to pay at least $1M for the new, better, cooler version. Especially if it's equally limited.

    Exactly.


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    wedouglas:
    Perhaps, though to be fair, Ferrari sees people willing to spend $900K-1.x million on used Enzos. The Enzo isn't really that old and far from 'classic' Ferrari status.

    I just don't think it would make sense to sell the latest and greatest for less the previous models are going for. If people say they'll pay $1M for an Enzo, then I'm sure they'd be willing to pay at least $1M for the new, better, cooler version. Especially if it's equally limited.

     

    Hmm, a lot of people, including myself, thinks the Enzo is one of the best looking super car from Ferrari, it has a purposeful, timeless look. 10 years old now yet it still looks like a new car. F40 looks quite dated, even the F50, 

    And one more thing, there was only 399 Enzo produced, and there must be around 50 destroyed by idiots, compared with 499 LaFerrari.


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    The LaFerrari is sold out. Rumors that if someone wanted one they could get one are just that RUMORS. Regarding flipping the car, I believe Ferrari requires the owner to first offer it to Ferrari before selling it on the open market. There is a formula for the price back to Ferrari.


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Whoopsy:

    Hmm, a lot of people, including myself, thinks the Enzo is one of the best looking super car from Ferrari, it has a purposeful, timeless look. 10 years old now yet it still looks like a new car. F40 looks quite dated, even the F50, 

    And one more thing, there was only 399 Enzo produced, and there must be around 50 destroyed by idiots, compared with 499 LaFerrari.

     

    Give it 10 more years and that might change. I used to think it looked awesome -- still do -- but even I think it's beginning to show its age when sitting next to the LF or the P1.

    I don't think 100 cars will make much of a difference and I'm sure 50 or so LFs will be destroyed to.


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    nberry:

    The LaFerrari is sold out. Rumors that if someone wanted one they could get one are just that RUMORS. Regarding flipping the car, I believe Ferrari requires the owner to first offer it to Ferrari before selling it on the open market. There is a formula for the price back to Ferrari.

     

    Well, I was never a Ferrari customer ever yet seems like they got word I had ordered a 918 AND had a hold of a P1, so I got a phone call about do I want a LaFerrari. For some reason they managed to get a hold of my number. And apart from members here, no one else even knew I had a hold on both. Heck, not even my wife knew. I never disclosed to Porsche that I had a hold on a P1 and I never told McLaren I had ordered a 918. That info had to be from someone here. With that phone call I know the LaFerrari is NOT sold out.

    One of my Ferrari owning friends told me about the 'rumor' of a few people backing off their deposits. 

    The Ferrari policy of selling back to the factory just proved my point, they charged enough to cover the initial 'flip' price.  They'd rather book that part as their profit instead of as a reward for the initial buyers. 

     


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    wedouglas:
    Whoopsy:

    Hmm, a lot of people, including myself, thinks the Enzo is one of the best looking super car from Ferrari, it has a purposeful, timeless look. 10 years old now yet it still looks like a new car. F40 looks quite dated, even the F50, 

    And one more thing, there was only 399 Enzo produced, and there must be around 50 destroyed by idiots, compared with 499 LaFerrari.

     

    Give it 10 more years and that might change. I used to think it looked awesome -- still do -- but even I think it's beginning to show its age when sitting next to the LF or the P1.

    I don't think 100 cars will make much of a difference and I'm sure 50 or so LFs will be destroyed to.

     

    A 250GT looks extremely ugly to me, same for a Jaguar E-type, both looks like crap destined for junk yards instead of a collector's status symbol. Look at those extremely dated chrome bumpers and trims, also the ill-fitted windows trims which btw looks like a design afterthought.  The E-type, especially in coupe form, is unimaginably ugly, the green house is so out of proportion compared with the body, a 2 year old can draw a better car than that. Then there is the side inward curve of the door and body panels, come on, are they trying to make the car looks like a hot dog sausage?

    Sorry if I offended another who like those cars, but I just didn't find them attractive at all. 


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    nberry:

    The LaFerrari is sold out. Rumors that if someone wanted one they could get one are just that RUMORS. Regarding flipping the car, I believe Ferrari requires the owner to first offer it to Ferrari before selling it on the open market. There is a formula for the price back to Ferrari.

    Officially, LaFerrari is sold out.  

    Unofficially, I was offered one recently for a later production.  


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    That is like when I asked a Ferrari dealer if I had to really buy a V8 before a V12 and he said, "well, we encourage our customers to experience the V8 first" but I could see he was ready to grab my money for whatever I wanted


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    I think I better elaborate before I get into trouble with Ferrari.

    I am certain that Ferrari has more demand for LaFerrari than what they plan to produce (just think China!).  This car WILL sell out as they said, and will sell much better as opposed to the highly optimistic 918 and struggling P1.

    The distribution of LaFerrari depends on the market and it is largely up to the dealers to decide who gets to purchase one.  For example, if you are in the US and was not offered one, don't take it too hard on yourself.  There are just a lot more wealthier and at the same time very enthusiastic (previous Ferrari owners) buyer than you in US market.  

    Simple economics.


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Jean:

    I think I better elaborate before I get into trouble with Ferrari.

    I am certain that Ferrari has more demand for LaFerrari than what they plan to produce (just think China!).  This car WILL sell out as they said, and will sell much better as opposed to the highly optimistic 918 and struggling P1.

    The distribution of LaFerrari depends on the market and it is largely up to the dealers to decide who gets to purchase one.  For example, if you are in the US and was not offered one, don't take it too hard on yourself.  There are just a lot more wealthier and at the same time very enthusiastic (previous Ferrari owners) buyer than you in US market.  

    Simple economics.

    I was under the impression it was the factory who decided who could get one rather than the dealer. 


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Whoopsy:
    nberry:

    The LaFerrari is sold out. Rumors that if someone wanted one they could get one are just that RUMORS. Regarding flipping the car, I believe Ferrari requires the owner to first offer it to Ferrari before selling it on the open market. There is a formula for the price back to Ferrari.

     

    Well, I was never a Ferrari customer ever yet seems like they got word I had ordered a 918 AND had a hold of a P1, so I got a phone call about do I want a LaFerrari. For some reason they managed to get a hold of my number. And apart from members here, no one else even knew I had a hold on both. Heck, not even my wife knew. I never disclosed to Porsche that I had a hold on a P1 and I never told McLaren I had ordered a 918. That info had to be from someone here. With that phone call I know the LaFerrari is NOT sold out.

    One of my Ferrari owning friends told me about the 'rumor' of a few people backing off their deposits. 

    The Ferrari policy of selling back to the factory just proved my point, they charged enough to cover the initial 'flip' price.  They'd rather book that part as their profit instead of as a reward for the initial buyers. 


    Okay Whoopsy, I think now it's time for you to get all three of them. Smiley

    Who will tell your wife? Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Rossi:
    Whoopsy:
    nberry:

    The LaFerrari is sold out. Rumors that if someone wanted one they could get one are just that RUMORS. Regarding flipping the car, I believe Ferrari requires the owner to first offer it to Ferrari before selling it on the open market. There is a formula for the price back to Ferrari.

     

    Well, I was never a Ferrari customer ever yet seems like they got word I had ordered a 918 AND had a hold of a P1, so I got a phone call about do I want a LaFerrari. For some reason they managed to get a hold of my number. And apart from members here, no one else even knew I had a hold on both. Heck, not even my wife knew. I never disclosed to Porsche that I had a hold on a P1 and I never told McLaren I had ordered a 918. That info had to be from someone here. With that phone call I know the LaFerrari is NOT sold out.

    One of my Ferrari owning friends told me about the 'rumor' of a few people backing off their deposits. 

    The Ferrari policy of selling back to the factory just proved my point, they charged enough to cover the initial 'flip' price.  They'd rather book that part as their profit instead of as a reward for the initial buyers. 


    Okay Whoopsy, I think now it's time for you to get all three of them. Smiley

    Who will tell your wife? Smiley

     

    Ferrari's preemption right is a false rumour. It is legally impossible anyway, once you own the car, you do whatever the hell you want with it. 
     
    I signed the order and it is a bog standard order form just like any other ferrari. Delivery April 2014.
     
    This car makes my head spin, 960 hp for 1360 kgs. Shit. 
     

    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Futch:
     
    I signed the order and it is a bog standard order form just like any other ferrari. Delivery April 2014.
     
    This car makes my head spin, 960 hp for 1360 kgs. Shit. 
     

    Congrats again!


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Rossi:
     

    Okay Whoopsy, I think now it's time for you to get all three of them. Smiley

    Who will tell your wife? Smiley

     

    I am crazy but not insane. smiley

    No Ferrari for me. Never was a customer and probably never will, their image just doesn't fit me.

    No P1 either, officially withdrew my name off the P1 list today. I am fully committed to the technology experiment from Porsche. 

     


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Futch:
     
    This car makes my head spin, 960 hp for 1360 kgs. Shit. 
     

     

    kiss

     


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    McLaren P1 XP2R


    --

    2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

    Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    There are a lot of rumors that this car is even more powerful version of original P1, but it seems crazy and unpolite to current P1 customers.


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    maybe a free of charge upgrade indecision - wouldn't be the first time.... - I read a article that the e-motors are evolving incredible fast - so maybe today you have x and they will offer you a upgrade with another with +50hp more etc.. - however, the car looks like serious business - very very nice


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Said this on a another forum.
    This is not a new limited edition or whatever the websites are calling it. This is false information.
    There are no plans from McLaren for a special edition P1 as of yet.
    This is an old XP (Experimental Prototype) that has been rebuilt.
    'XP2R' stands for 'Experimental Prototype #2 rebuild'.

    Thanks to my brother who got this information straight from the guy who built it. indecisionindecision


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    this was clear anyway that this is not a different model - but like for the 918 Porsche some parts could get the "latest development stage"  already before production starts and another one could be marketing dept trying to be closer to LaFe. for various reasons. Same for the batteries....


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    BjoernB:

    maybe a free of charge upgrade indecision - wouldn't be the first time....


    Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    If I'm not mistaken, there has been a similar labeled prototype during the development of the 12C. 


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    P1 is suppose to start production later this year, which means the PP (production prototype) cars should be out running already, yet all we sees are still the XP cars. Makes you wonder if McLaren is suffering some kind of delay as one of our new members mentioned before about some of the parts being supplied to McLaren is having problems.


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Looks good in black !


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    pretty sick, I still keep thinking about - what if they made this a three seat configuration.  I think it would have played to Mclaren heritage and have sold out right away.

    Maybe development costs would have been prohibitive, but I don't think that would have been the case.  I think the development of a new tub, in today's computer world, would have been much easier than it was in the 90's.  The rest is mostly layout issues.

     


     
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