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    The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    I posted this on Rennlist but know that there are a few interested parties on here:
    The Porsche handbook acceleration diagram shows a 0-300kph (186.3mph) in around 27s.
    It states that this is for a car at DIN empty weight and with a 50% load without additional equipment which seems to be a car with no extras (ie a/c etc) at the 1380kg DIN weight + two people.
    I have no idea if such a bare car exists but the majority of CGTs are like the one tested in Sport Auto magazine which did the 0-300kph sprint in 34s. with 100-300kph taking 30.2s.

    I have just finished running at an airstrip and logged 7 runs (with 2 people on board and at least half a tank of fuel) The average 100-300kph was 29.52s or an equivalent 0-300kph in 33.3s with a best of 28.62s or 0-300kph in 32.42s.

    I find it very hard to believe that there is a CGT out there which can lop 5+seconds off this time
    BTW the CGT was sooooo stable at 195mph, virtually hands off and a spine tingling mix of sensations

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    Very interesting. Thanks for posting

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    Would heavily discount relevance of stability on flat, smooth roads at 100MPH+ for street-legal cars....

    Many of these old-tech supercars like CGT/Enzo, etc (which now are ancient 3-4yo tech ) struggle to provide class-leading stability at <100MPH on bumpy, hilly CA fwys....and CA buys enough of these cars to elevate this daily-useability consideration....esp in an era of 599s/CL63s that deliver real-world, useable performance/stability/active safety.....

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    Quote:
    WBH said:
    ...esp in an era of 599s/CL63s that deliver real-world, useable performance/stability/active safety.....



    ...But are unfortunately prime examples of front-engined/front-weighted/understeer-mad/over-bloated/GT-marketed poseur-mobiles

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    WBH are you implying that the Cl63 and 599 have better high speed stability than a CGT or Enzo? Have you ever heard of a thing called downforce. For sh!t's sake you just compared a CGT to a CL63!!!! You obviously are on drugs!!! please realize, the CL63 is not the best car in the world, not even close!

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    Quote:
    TB993tt said:
    I posted this on Rennlist but know that there are a few interested parties on here:
    The Porsche handbook acceleration diagram shows a 0-300kph (186.3mph) in around 27s.
    It states that this is for a car at DIN empty weight and with a 50% load without additional equipment which seems to be a car with no extras (ie a/c etc) at the 1380kg DIN weight + two people.
    I have no idea if such a bare car exists but the majority of CGTs are like the one tested in Sport Auto magazine which did the 0-300kph sprint in 34s. with 100-300kph taking 30.2s.

    I have just finished running at an airstrip and logged 7 runs (with 2 people on board and at least half a tank of fuel) The average 100-300kph was 29.52s or an equivalent 0-300kph in 33.3s with a best of 28.62s or 0-300kph in 32.42s.

    I find it very hard to believe that there is a CGT out there which can lop 5+seconds off this time
    BTW the CGT was sooooo stable at 195mph, virtually hands off and a spine tingling mix of sensations




    Very interesting, thanks!

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    WBH is being sarcastic (I hope )

    There are other factors which may have made a difference to the times I was seeing:
    Some gear changes were not right at 8350rpm (which appears to be where the factory diagram puts them - but traditionally factory diagrams are not particularly accurate) so maybe some of the 8100rpm gearchanges were not optimum ?
    There was a slight slope of about 4m in the first mile (you can see it on the trace above)
    The factory blurb about running their tests with 50% load may indicate a 1380kg (non optioned) car with driver only...

    But still ~5 seconds is a LOT to find. I will be purusing the answer to this, It would be great if RC could make enquiries through his Porsche AG connections ?
    BTW there is a very crappy in car vid here (very crappy )
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae2PAOMBSZ8

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    I guess you have not heard that all Porsche times are conservative . BTW, the answer to your question is Porsche will claim that it did not misrepresent the acceleration number because Walter Roehl drove the stated time. His times in the CGT have always been substantially faster than anyone has been able to duplicate.

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    Quote:
    TB993tt said:
    WBH is being sarcastic (I hope )

    There are other factors which may have made a difference to the times I was seeing:
    Some gear changes were not right at 8350rpm (which appears to be where the factory diagram puts them - but traditionally factory diagrams are not particularly accurate) so maybe some of the 8100rpm gearchanges were not optimum ?
    There was a slight slope of about 4m in the first mile (you can see it on the trace above)
    The factory blurb about running their tests with 50% load may indicate a 1380kg (non optioned) car with driver only...

    But still ~5 seconds is a LOT to find. I will be purusing the answer to this, It would be great if RC could make enquiries through his Porsche AG connections ?
    BTW there is a very crappy in car vid here (very crappy )
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae2PAOMBSZ8



    WBH isn't being sarcastic, you can trust me on that.

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    Porsche is usually (was) conservative with their times, lately it seems not so much...

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    TB993tt: when you change your cgt engine oil after 10,000km it will be much faster than now .. if your car now is minimum than 10,000km i advise you to change the oil now and change it again after 10,000km .. maybe it will be faster than now from 0-300 with in 3-5 second (my feel) .

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    CGT1178
    My CGT has done nearly 12000km and has had 3 oil changes, last one at 10000km.
    Despite the negative feel of my post, believe me, I want the CGT to be as quick as Porsche say, It is just that it seems that this is not the case
    I look forward to your tests when your driftbox arrives

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    Quote:
    Turbo Al said:
    Quote:
    WBH said:
    ...esp in an era of 599s/CL63s that deliver real-world, useable performance/stability/active safety.....



    ...But are unfortunately prime examples of front-engined/front-weighted/understeer-mad/over-bloated/GT-marketed poseur-mobiles



    Get past absurd stereotypes perpetuated by those who have never driven these cars aggressively on public roads (let alone owned any interesting cars)....

    Need to actually drive these cars on fast-flowing, dense-traffic, urban CA fwys, which often have bumpy, hilly, curvy stretches, w/cross-winds....one may be surprised re: conclusions....

    Pace of tech re: more active, more intelligent chassis advances is remarkable ....know several car nuts who own/have owned various cars such as Enzo/599/430/CGT/997TT/CL63, etc who seem to agree re: impressive impact of dynamics of latest chassis tech vs these cars' perceived precision/stability/active safety on real-world, public roads....do own back-to-back comparos on own favorite roads and draw conclusions....one shouldn't believe everything in print/on Net...or use silly conventional-wisdom stereotypes to convince self that cars one can't afford/have never driven are either spectacular/underwhelming....

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    Quote:
    trip said:
    WBH are you implying that the Cl63 and 599 have better high speed stability than a CGT or Enzo? Have you ever heard of a thing called downforce. For sh!t's sake you just compared a CGT to a CL63!!!! You obviously are on drugs!!! please realize, the CL63 is not the best car in the world, not even close!



    Stop speculating; drive these cars back-to-back on 280 on SF Peninsula and in Woodside mtn twisties....and draw own conclusions....several jaded guys (who own/have owned all of these cars) have already performed their own evaluations....and have drawn their own conclusions....isn't technology great?

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    Quote:
    WBH said:
    Quote:
    trip said:
    WBH are you implying that the Cl63 and 599 have better high speed stability than a CGT or Enzo? Have you ever heard of a thing called downforce. For sh!t's sake you just compared a CGT to a CL63!!!! You obviously are on drugs!!! please realize, the CL63 is not the best car in the world, not even close!



    Stop speculating; drive these cars back-to-back on 280 on SF Peninsula and in Woodside mtn twisties....and draw own conclusions....several jaded guys (who own/have owned all of these cars) have already performed their own evaluations....and have drawn their own conclusions....isn't technology great?



    "jaded guys (who own/have owned all of these cars)" have no clue about real sport driving. In all probability they never took a DE class. The CL63, or even the SL 63, are boat-heavy GTs with a powerful straight line performance, nothing else. You clearly react positively to their insulating factor, which to you seems control and stability, but is none of that. it is laughable.

    You say your pals prove their cars stability and prowess on CA twisty hilly roads (perhaps around Woodside)... say no more... those are the guys (perhaps you included) who slow me down when I drive by on my "lowly," but faster/stable/sportier 996 C4.

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    ok .. i ordered it befor 2 days (performance box) .. but the weather now in kuwait is tooo hot (45-50c)!! ..

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    TB993tt: i saw your video when you was racing with rt12 .. and i calculated your time from shifting to 3rd(start) to shifting to 6th(stop) and the time was around 18 second .. also i calculated my car time from 3rd to 6th and the time was around 15.5 secound (30c , 2 passengers, i shift on 8,300-8,350 rpm ) !! ..

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    Quote:
    CGT1178 said:
    TB993tt: i saw your video when you was racing with rt12 .. and i calculated your time from shifting to 3rd(start) to shifting to 6th(stop) and the time was around 18 second .. also i calculated my car time from 3rd to 6th and the time was around 15.5 secound (30c , 2 passengers, i shift on 8,300-8,350 rpm ) !! ..


    I just had a look at the data from the Driftbox and it was about 16s from the middle of shift 2nd/3rd to middle of shift 5th/6th -I was shifting about 8100rpm so yours may be even faster.
    Seriously 'though I wouldn't get too excited until you have extracted some real data, stopwatch data is notoriously inaccurate
    Here is the graph in Kph:

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    Quote:
    TB993tt said:
    Quote:
    CGT1178 said:
    TB993tt: i saw your video when you was racing with rt12 .. and i calculated your time from shifting to 3rd(start) to shifting to 6th(stop) and the time was around 18 second .. also i calculated my car time from 3rd to 6th and the time was around 15.5 secound (30c , 2 passengers, i shift on 8,300-8,350 rpm ) !! ..


    I just had a look at the data from the Driftbox and it was about 16s from the middle of shift 2nd/3rd to middle of shift 5th/6th -I was shifting about 8100rpm so yours may be even faster.
    Seriously 'though I wouldn't get too excited until you have extracted some real data, stopwatch data is notoriously inaccurate
    Here is the graph in Kph:



    It would be interesting if the car actually gained the "lost" seconds after 10.000 km. Seeing that he has ordered the box, you'll know soon enough .

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    when the performance box will arrive i will show you every thing .. in the next time i advise you to be alone in the car with 1/4 tank and shift on 8,350rpm (quick shifting) .. before you calculate your time you must reach 330km or 350km if you can 2 times after that wait for 1-3 hours and start calculating
    (sorry about my bad english )

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    Quote:
    CGT1178 said:
    when the performance box will arive i will show you every thing .. in the next time i advise you to be alone in the car with 1/4 tank .. and before you calculate your time you must reach 330km or 350km if you can 2 times after that wait for 1-3 hours and start calculating
    (sorry about my bad english )



    If yours is bad, I wonder what you consider to be good English .

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    Honestly,

    It's hard to see your point. Firstly in your post you mention that according to the graph the GT does 0-300 (186mph) in 27 seconds, unless I am reading the graph incorrectly the graph to me shows that it does it in OVER 29 seconds.
    Secondly the graph shows that 190mph (3 miles above 186) is attainable in 33seconds.
    You stated that your best - to 186 mind you - was a 33.3 seconds, do you not think the EXTRA time it took you to go to 186mp is due to the fact that your speedometer, or speed measuring device and timing is just slightly off AND also due to the fact that you are not confirming the exact weight and spec of the GT that performed the 29 seconds and NOT the 27 seconds you stated?

    Please show me where I am misunderstanding or where I am wrong.

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    Quote:
    RR4 said:
    Honestly,

    It's hard to see your point. Firstly in your post you mention that according to the graph the GT does 0-300 (186mph) in 27 seconds, unless I am reading the graph incorrectly the graph to me shows that it does it in OVER 29 seconds.
    Secondly the graph shows that 190mph (3 miles above 186) is attainable in 33seconds.
    You stated that your best - to 186 mind you - was a 33.3 seconds, do you not think the EXTRA time it took you to go to 186mp is due to the fact that your speedometer, or speed measuring device and timing is just slightly off AND also due to the fact that you are not confirming the exact weight and spec of the GT that performed the 29 seconds and NOT the 27 seconds you stated?

    Please show me where I am misunderstanding or where I am wrong.


    I apologise for not making it clearer, I forget that not everyone is an anorak like me

    Firstly it is the Porsche CGT handbook which contains an acceleration diagram which shows 0-300kph in ~27s.
    Porsche also claim 0-100kph in 3.8s so by subtraction 100-300kph according to Porsche should take ~23.2s

    My graph above STARTS at 100kph, this is in second gear at wide open throttle with no wheelspin (I did not attempt standing starts since I do noy want to pay for a new clutch anytime soon )
    So you see my graph goes from 100kph to 300kph in 28.7s compared to Porsches 23.2s a 5 second discrepancy.

    If I add 3.8s to my 28.7s = 32.5s compared to Porsches ~27s for the 0-300kph.
    Is that a little clearer

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Quote:
    WBH said:
    Quote:
    trip said:
    WBH are you implying that the Cl63 and 599 have better high speed stability than a CGT or Enzo? Have you ever heard of a thing called downforce. For sh!t's sake you just compared a CGT to a CL63!!!! You obviously are on drugs!!! please realize, the CL63 is not the best car in the world, not even close!



    Stop speculating; drive these cars back-to-back on 280 on SF Peninsula and in Woodside mtn twisties....and draw own conclusions....several jaded guys (who own/have owned all of these cars) have already performed their own evaluations....and have drawn their own conclusions....isn't technology great?



    "jaded guys (who own/have owned all of these cars)" have no clue about real sport driving. In all probability they never took a DE class. The CL63, or even the SL 63, are boat-heavy GTs with a powerful straight line performance, nothing else. You clearly react positively to their insulating factor, which to you seems control and stability, but is none of that. it is laughable.

    You say your pals prove their cars stability and prowess on CA twisty hilly roads (perhaps around Woodside)... say no more... those are the guys (perhaps you included) who slow me down when I drive by on my "lowly," but faster/stable/sportier 996 C4.




    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    Quote:
    TB993tt said:
    Quote:
    RR4 said:
    Honestly,

    It's hard to see your point. Firstly in your post you mention that according to the graph the GT does 0-300 (186mph) in 27 seconds, unless I am reading the graph incorrectly the graph to me shows that it does it in OVER 29 seconds.
    Secondly the graph shows that 190mph (3 miles above 186) is attainable in 33seconds.
    You stated that your best - to 186 mind you - was a 33.3 seconds, do you not think the EXTRA time it took you to go to 186mp is due to the fact that your speedometer, or speed measuring device and timing is just slightly off AND also due to the fact that you are not confirming the exact weight and spec of the GT that performed the 29 seconds and NOT the 27 seconds you stated?

    Please show me where I am misunderstanding or where I am wrong.


    I apologise for not making it clearer, I forget that not everyone is an anorak like me

    Firstly it is the Porsche CGT handbook which contains an acceleration diagram which shows 0-300kph in ~27s.
    Porsche also claim 0-100kph in 3.8s so by subtraction 100-300kph according to Porsche should take ~23.2s

    My graph above STARTS at 100kph, this is in second gear at wide open throttle with no wheelspin (I did not attempt standing starts since I do noy want to pay for a new clutch anytime soon )
    So you see my graph goes from 100kph to 300kph in 28.7s compared to Porsches 23.2s a 5 second discrepancy.

    If I add 3.8s to my 28.7s = 32.5s compared to Porsches ~27s for the 0-300kph.
    Is that a little clearer



    Was there a slight tailwind in your test? 32.5sec is the fastest I've ever read.

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:

    Was there a slight tailwind in your test? 32.5sec is the fastest I've ever read.


    Actually there was maybe 10mph gusts in the direction of travel -the average of 7 runs was 29.52s 100-300 or 33.3s 0-300.
    Should have done in both directions to negate wind and slope I guess, but not possible on the day

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    what about checking another logging box and shifting a bit faster with not going off throttle? you lose much on shifting.

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    Quote:
    rs38 said:
    what about checking another logging box and shifting a bit faster with not going off throttle? you lose much on shifting.


    I logged 9 runs and am confident that the "logging box" was accurate. "Powershifting" is being put forward by others as a possible route to the Porsche times but the 4 shifts would only amount to a ~2.5s saving if there was zero interruption to forward progress...

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    BTW, did you also use your GPS equipment in Leons Rt12...

    The 0-300 of his car would be verrrry interesting to know

    Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    BTW, did you also use your GPS equipment in Leons Rt12...

    The 0-300 of his car would be verrrry interesting to know


    No -don't think he's into the messing about it entails in terms of setting up and then positioning on track, start off speeds etc.......

     
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