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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I think the problem is that some people are not able to enjoy the added driving experience of being able to manually operate the clucth and stick and its interaction with the throttle and brake, which is a hole different ball game than automated flip paddle operation. And that is fine, we don't all enjoy the same things.

    On the other hand that doesn't mean that those that prefer an automatic tranny can't operate a manual, just means that the won't understand as easily why others enjoy it so much and are oblibious to it. And some auto drivers will make up all sorts of explanations as to why someone would prefer a manual, some here even trying to convince trhemeselves that there is only one reasonable choice, and are compelete in denial, that is sad. I gives the feeling that some auto-box drivers feel threatened by manual geaboxes by the way they criticise other drivers who prefer manuals and who's opinion should be respected just as theirs.

    Just the same as some manual drivers who critticse auto-box drivers and claiming the do so because they can't drive a stick, which is ridiculous, or that manual drivers are better than auto-drivers. Sure the poseurs will always choose auto-boxes but in my experience they are a minority.

    If we are talking about a car that will be used for competition then there is only one reasonable choice, the fastest tranny wins. i.e. auto. But the GT3 is a street car, 90% will never see a track, and even if you go to track days with it, not everyone is willing to sacrifice everything for the fastest lap time posible on a track day, others track it to enjoy the pleasure of track driving (which for some a manual gearbox and doing heel-toe etc is a great part of) and care less about a lap time if that lap is due a mechanical advantage that comes at a cost (loss of involvement for them) and not their driving skills.

    I often go over in my mind when I'm driving my 911 what would it be if I had PDK instead of manual, and while in some situations it would be more confortable, and in others faster, everytime I have a chance to stretch the 911's legs and start playing with the clucth and stick, I can't help be afraid that I would miss that too much that it won't compensate the advantages of the PDK. I have a lot of experience with autos and while I prefer them for some cars, for my 911 is different since the use I give my 911 is not only as a daily driver but also to make that daily driving the most fun posible, that is why I don't drive a boring sedan or SUV as a daily driver and the 911 for the weekends. So in my case taking the clutch and stick away (which is really really fun to use as hard as it may be for some people to comprehend, sadly for them) would water down that "fun" adpect for which I drive a 911 daily

    Personally I don't have a clear answer yet, I don't know if I would be happy enough with a PDK to compensate what I would miss form a manual, and I know I would miss it since as much as I know how to drive a PDK and extract its full potential, the PDK and manual are not substiututes of each other. So maybe my next 911 will have PDK, I don't know yet, but I will only know if I made the right choice or if I will regret it after many many miles of driving the PDK and especially not driving a manual anymore. Its not a matter of enjoying the PDK is a matter more of how much I will miss the manual after a while.

    What I do know is that when driving a mountain road, the PDK while faster and more efficient, it does not put the huge smile on my face that the manual does. I always know exactly what options I want in my 911's and very sure of them, but for my next 911, the choice of tranny is still a question mark I can't figure out. I guess I would have to take a pliunge and find out after the fact surprise


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Carlos thank you, you have put lots of thought into the matter. However, I'm sure that your next 911 will be PDK

    Just 2 points.

    • The PDK is not an Auto box in the traditional sense and it shouldn't be thought as such. It has an Auto function but this gives an added bonus when you feel lazy but it is really a box that gives the driver full control and various programs and possibilities (choice to hit the rev limiter or not, choice to kickdown or maintain gear when accelerating etc), all without the need to operate a clutch pedal and lift your right hand (left hand for us indecision) from the wheel. Therefore it does all that a manual does (which was not the case with Tiptronic) and more. I understand the GT3 PDK gives even more control

     

    • Someone needs to get acquainted well with the PDK to use it fully and properly. In the context of a test drive this is not always possible. Some people when test driving operate the system as a conventional automatic and hence they miss the whole point.

     


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    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I'm with nberry on this one.

    I tried a 996 Turbo with Tiptronic because my legs were too long to heel-and-toe in the confined surroundings of the 996 foot well.  I was ambivalent about it because the Tip was just not very refined and gave no advantage for me over a 6-speed at the track.

    After driving my Panamera Turbo with PDK, I became very enamored of PDK's possibilities for fast driving.  When I read about the new developments for the 991-GT3-specific variant of PDK, I can say that I am actually excited to try such a combination.  My GT3 RS 4.0 is a sublime track beast that I can't fully enjoy because heel-and-toe shifting is still off the table because of the footwell constriction.  My Carrera GT has enough leg room to barely, though not exquisitely, perform blip-throttle down shifting, so it is the Porsche that lets me perform like I used to be able in my old 911RS-IROC.  However, the GT3 RS 4.0 has more corner-exit traction than the Carrera GT and performs better under my command. 

    When the 991 GT3 RS appears, I hope it has PDK.  That would be a dream come true for me.  I could finally have a great corner-exit car that I could drive to my own limits instead of the limits of the constricted foot box.


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    Mike

    Carrera GT + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T + GT3 RS 4.0


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Leawood911:

      That said, I wish my Turbo had the PDK (sometimes) to keep it in the boost.  Did I mention I am now a boost freak?

    You are on a very slippery slope Smiley Soon you will want N rated tires Smiley


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     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    reginos:

    Actually, the 997.1 Turbo is faster with Tiptronic and offers the overboost function (for 8 secs I think)  too. It is the only Porsche sportscar that is worth having with the Tip box.


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    "Form follows function"

    I know it (997.1 TT) had the TIP - and that it is faster. Of course I just would prefer the PDK over the TIP, naturally. 

    My manual 997.1 TT also has 10 sec overboost (not 8 but I dare you to keep it going for 10 seconds) - it is a function of Sport Chrono option.  You have to stab the throttle to the floor quickly to activate when in Sport mode.  To reactivate you simply let off and push it again fast for another 10 seconds.  Do it between shifts and you get overboost continously but there is a drop in boost between gears you don't have with the Auto boxes. 

    That said the short throw manual on the Turbo is much more fun and you are in the gear you expect to be in 'cause you put it there.  It may not be as fast but I love shifting and can be much smoother than any auto.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Carlos from Spain:

    Personally I don't have a clear answer yet, I don't know if I would be happy enough with a PDK to compensate what I would miss form a manual, and I know I would miss it since as much as I know how to drive a PDK and extract its full potential, the PDK and manual are not substiututes of each other. So maybe my next 911 will have PDK, I don't know yet, but I will only know if I made the right choice or if I will regret it after many many miles of driving the PDK and especially not driving a manual anymore. Its not a matter of enjoying the PDK is a matter more of how much I will miss the manual after a while    

     

    After 78000 km with PDK I still have this dilemma  Smiley

    My conclusion , today, is ( but I does change with time ) that for the track I want PDK ( as I want to be fast )  and ' compete' with others. Without PDK I would have already an handicap that is too big, ( I like to pass the F cars Smiley )  and , with my Carrera S PDK I do have fun on a track like the N'Ring . The only place when I do not have fun with PDK on a track, is when the track is ' easy' and there is no car to overtake . Then I miss manual.

    But , on a DD, I would now want manual . Driving around town, on speed limited roads, congested highways is boring . So adding PDK , ends up being even more boring .  A manual will give a little bit of something to do during these sorts of drives, making DD driving a bit more fun .


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     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Regarding speed of gear changes, there's no contest, PDK wins. If efficiency is the only priority, PDK is better.

    As for pleasure, comparing PDK and manual is IMO pointless since they are different pleasures. Some prefer one, others prefer the other. So, as for pleasure, neither is better. It just comes down to which type of pleasure one is looking for.

    IMO the real issue is choice. PAG removed the choice in the 991 GT3. Now, only one of those 2 types of pleasure remains. In an age when PAG caters to every conceivable whim through Tequipment and Exclusive, I just wish that PAG had retained the element of choice. The irony is that this choice is available in the 991 Carrera range but not in the 991 GT3.


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    997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    The problem I have is that I'm lazy - so when I DO want to have some fun with the paddles, I find that I'm totally inept.  After 30 years of driving a manual, being inept with the paddles can be frustrating!

    I think there is only one solution.  That Singer...


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    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Gnil:
    Leawood911:

      That said, I wish my Turbo had the PDK (sometimes) to keep it in the boost.  Did I mention I am now a boost freak?

    You are on a very slippery slope Smiley Soon you will want N rated tires Smiley

    Funny you say that.  I plan on only 'n' rated tires for the Turbo and a set of snow tires on dedicated wheels for the winter.  I am enjoying the new N rated Bridestones it currently wears.


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Gnil:
    Carlos from Spain:

    Personally I don't have a clear answer yet, I don't know if I would be happy enough with a PDK to compensate what I would miss form a manual, and I know I would miss it since as much as I know how to drive a PDK and extract its full potential, the PDK and manual are not substiututes of each other. So maybe my next 911 will have PDK, I don't know yet, but I will only know if I made the right choice or if I will regret it after many many miles of driving the PDK and especially not driving a manual anymore. Its not a matter of enjoying the PDK is a matter more of how much I will miss the manual after a while    

     

    After 78000 km with PDK I still have this dilemma  Smiley

    SmileySmiley  I know that the same is going to happen to me SmileySmiley

    So is a PDK with clucth and stick for "dual" manual & PDK operation  to much to ask for then? Smiley SmileySmiley

     

     

    My conclusion , today, is ( but I does change with time ) that for the track I want PDK ( as I want to be fast )  and ' compete' with others. Without PDK I would have already an handicap that is too big, ( I like to pass the F cars Smiley )  and , with my Carrera S PDK I do have fun on a track like the N'Ring . The only place when I do not have fun with PDK on a track, is when the track is ' easy' and there is no car to overtake . Then I miss manual.

    But , on a DD, I would now want manual . Driving around town, on speed limited roads, congested highways is boring . So adding PDK , ends up being even more boring .  A manual will give a little bit of something to do during these sorts of drives, making DD driving a bit more fun .

    That is exactly what I think will happpen to me and we pretty much share car preferences, so I have taken your opinions on the matter very seriously as you have already "been there done that"! Smiley


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Carlos, the only thing that the 991GT3 PDK does not give you is a clutch. You have the option of using the paddles to shift or using the gear stick with short throws for changes gears. Additionally, unlike many PDK type transmissions including the F1 the 991GT3 does not have a rev limiter (or it can be turned off I am not sure which) and would required the driver to engage in shifting using the paddles or gear stick prior to reaching the rev limit.

    Three years from now PDK will be universally accepted even by the diehard manual devotees. Progress moves on.kiss


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    To add my two cents (and trying to be pragmatic)...I Love the track, I love to push my car on the track and if that is a good use of how I spent my money is my own business.  But how often can anyone, who is not racing for a profession get to the track.  I get there 6 to 8 times when in season.  I am sure a lot of you get there many multiples of this.  But there are few people buying a GT3 who are doing 180 days plus a year.  Therefore, you are buying a car that will be driven on and off the track.  To me, the manual transmission makes, Sunday drives more engaging.  I love driving a manual and am sad by the direction all car companies are going.  The idea that I would buy a different transmission to shave seconds off my lap time is not relevant.  If ever get to a point in my career when I can do more than 30 days at a a track in a year, I will buy a cup car or a pure racer.  

    I am guessing my life style is relevant to more people on this forum than not, so it is hard to say.  Therefore, I disagree that people should say manual is an old technology because we are all trying to shave tenths of a second off our track time.  I think many of us still use our cars off the track and here the manual is more engaging for my dollar. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    I agree these cars are not tracked that often. I am not sure If I will track mine. 

    I disagree with your conclusion that manual is more fun or more engaging than PDK. Presently, most would say it is a subjective judgment as to which is more fun. I will argue that with time, manual advocates will soon learn how much fun and possibly more fun PDK is over manual. Manual is laborious and requires a great deal of effort to be done right. In doing so you lose the driving experience if attacking corners and exits at speeds that puts a grin on your face a mile wide.

    Now some manual drivers will say I can do both. To them I say, if you admit that PDK is faster then you can't do both.


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    bhnyc:

    To add my two cents (and trying to be pragmatic)...I Love the track, I love to push my car on the track and if that is a good use of how I spent my money is my own business.  But how often can anyone, who is not racing for a profession get to the track.  I get there 6 to 8 times when in season.  I am sure a lot of you get there many multiples of this.  But there are few people buying a GT3 who are doing 180 days plus a year.  Therefore, you are buying a car that will be driven on and off the track.  To me, the manual transmission makes, Sunday drives more engaging.  I love driving a manual and am sad by the direction all car companies are going.  The idea that I would buy a different transmission to shave seconds off my lap time is not relevant.  If ever get to a point in my career when I can do more than 30 days at a a track in a year, I will buy a cup car or a pure racer.  

    I am guessing my life style is relevant to more people on this forum than not, so it is hard to say.  Therefore, I disagree that people should say manual is an old technology because we are all trying to shave tenths of a second off our track time.  I think many of us still use our cars off the track and here the manual is more engaging for my dollar. 

    I heartily concur!  

    I get to the track even less the six times a year and I want a Porsche that provides the sensory overload coupled with tactile delights that are only achieved with a manual gearbox.  Driving a PDK-equipped Porsche is akin to driving a modern Cadillac...

    Returning to a previous posting on attending an early Porsche Driving School at Road Atlanta.  I too attended one of the early classes held during the introduction of the 996 and have fond memories of Hurley Haywood driving the extended wheelbase Dodge Van, with the students, through turn 10A after the downhill backstretch.  


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    nberry:

    Carlos, the only thing that the 991GT3 PDK does not give you is a clutch. You have the option of using the paddles to shift or using the gear stick with short throws for changes gears. Additionally, unlike many PDK type transmissions including the F1 the 991GT3 does not have a rev limiter (or it can be turned off I am not sure which) and would required the driver to engage in shifting using the paddles or gear stick prior to reaching the rev limit.

    Three years from now PDK will be universally accepted even by the diehard manual devotees. Progress moves on.kiss

     

    Nick, the fact that you say "only" gives you the clucth reflects what I was talking about earlier, that some people are not able to appreciate the pleasure and experience a clucth gives you. Its much more than just having to step on a clucth, it also changes completely how you interact with the throttle and brake, the mechanical engaging the gears with the stick, the play with the clucth, etc. That experience cannot be substituted by paddles. Its like someone saying that sex is too laboirous and requieres extra effort and that artificial insemiantion is the way to go and the way of progress SmileySmiley

    If you can't undertand the pleasure a manual gives to sporty driving then thats too bad, others can and may still prefer PDK, thats not the point, but at least respect that others can. I don't criticise that you only drive automatics, like I said before its a personal choice involving many factors, and one can be just as happy with a PDK (if you enjoy driving it more than a manual more power to you, and I don't question that you do either, like I said they are not susbtitiutes of each other), but don't try to push that onto others. And I certainly don't want PDK's to dissapear like you do manuals. You are in denial if you think that there is only one repectable option, or if you think that only you can appreciate a PDK for what it is.

    Be a little more open minded, I certainly try to be, to the point that I may even get a PDK while still loving the manual! That said, given each vehicle's character and type of use, the GT3 would be the last car on the line up I personally would get a PDK on, and a Turbo the first one, with the Carrera being in the middle. 

    BY the way, I shhould write down your famous "predictions", I'm still waiting for the 997 to be a failure, on top of it, here you are having sold your Ferrari and with a 991 on order years later now tongue.png Smiley


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Carlos, the secret to success is adaptation. Through the years, my wants and desires change and I accommodate them. 

    I have been defending the PDK/F1 for years. Not because I want the manual advocates to change but to rebut their criticisms of sequential transmissions. Personally, I wish and hope all GT3 manual devotees not buy the 991GT3 because it would be easier for those of us not prior owners of GT3's to get allocations. I was afraid that if their was a huge demand for the car, dealers will begin to ask more than MSRP. That would be a deal breaker for me.

    Finally, regarding the 911's in general, it can be argued that but for the Cayenne and Panamera Porsche might have been out of business. The 911 model range is old and stale and sales reflect that. They would not have supported Porsche as a car company. So is that failure? Some would say yes and other would say no.yes


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    W8MM:

    My GT3 RS 4.0 is a sublime track beast that I can't fully enjoy because heel-and-toe shifting is still off the table because of the footwell constriction. 

    Hi Mike - ever tried an L-shaped gas pedal extension that lets you blip the throttle with your heel directly below the brake?  That might make things easier than rolling your foot laterally (if your knee is hitting the console).


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    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Love this debate about manual vs. Automatic.  It is clearly a matter of choice.  Some of us prefer manuals.

    I heard an old joke - If a conservative does not like meat he becomes a vegetarian.

    If a liberal does not like meat he insists we should all be vegetarians.

    Guess Nick is in the - we must all drive Automatics - camp

    "it also changes completely how you interact with the throttle and brake, the mechanical engaging the gears with the stick, the play with the clucth, etc. That experience cannot be substituted by paddles."  Spot ON!!

    When Nick said it was only missing a clutch he totally lost me. Without that clutch it is an automatic.  At best it is an on-off switch for a clutch.  No thanks.  Bet this debate has been going on since the first automatic was created.  The autobox is faster and more efficient yet still not ever the same.  Like comparing a bicyle to a motorcycle.  Some like to shift and know what gear they are in.  I do it without thinking and I am very quick and good at it.  I would have a hard time finding the perfect corner entry without trailbraking and setting up the car with perfect clutch release - the paddles are like an on-off switch for the clutch - would you want that for your brakes as well?


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    nberry:

    Carlos, the secret to success is adaptation. Through the years, my wants and desires change and I accommodate them. 

    I have been defending the PDK/F1 for years. Not because I want the manual advocates to change but to rebut their criticisms of sequential transmissions.

    So how is it a criticism that I prefer manual myself because it gives me a fuller more involving experience? Smiley  I'm not saying that YOU can't enjoy the PDK, just that there is not one choice for everyone, and I and many others are a testament that no matter how fast the PDK or how efficient or how confortable it will not change that fact.

    This weekend I have an all day outing with another two dozen more 911's on some great mountain roads, and everytime I come home after a day like that I appreciate having a manual.

    Finally, regarding the 911's in general, it can be argued that but for the Cayenne and Panamera Porsche might have been out of business. The 911 model range is old and stale and sales reflect that. They would not have supported Porsche as a car company. So is that failure? Some would say yes and other would say no.yes

    Thats not what you sadi about the 997, each generation has been more succesful than the previous, nor what you said about 911 buyers in general who were being taken by Porsche for suckers and were buying a glorified VW Beetle... shall we go to the archive? Smiley


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Leawood911:

    Love this debate about manual vs. Automatic.  It is clearly a matter of choice.  Some of us prefer manuals.

    I heard an old joke - If a conservative does not like meat he becomes a vegetarian.

    If a liberal does not like meat he insists we should all be vegetarians.

    Guess Nick is in the - we must all drive Automatics - camp

    "it also changes completely how you interact with the throttle and brake, the mechanical engaging the gears with the stick, the play with the clucth, etc. That experience cannot be substituted by paddles."  Spot ON!!

    When Nick said it was only missing a clutch he totally lost me. Without that clutch it is an automatic.  At best it is an on-off switch for a clutch.  No thanks.  Bet this debate has been going on since the first automatic was created.  The autobox is faster and more efficient yet still not ever the same.  Like comparing a bicyle to a motorcycle.  Some like to shift and know what gear they are in.  I do it without thinking and I am very quick and good at it.  I would have a hard time finding the perfect corner entry without trailbraking and setting up the car with perfect clutch release - the paddles are like an on-off switch for the clutch - would you want that for your brakes as well?

    The perfect rhetorical allegory.  The GT3 is not a race car, it is merely an immensely capable road car that is occasionally trackable.

     I recall reading, not sure if it was in Cars are My Life or elsewhere, the Ferry Porsche preferred a cabriolet as the perfect sportscar.  His rationale was well-reasoned: cars today are so capable that that capability can not be used on the public streets, so sensory experiences lend more to the sportscar experience.  Within that framework, I would like a  Porsche less festooned with weight-adding luxury features but something reduced to the very essence of "pure" driving; the GT3 and GT3 RS did offer that at one point, this is no longer true with the 991 variant.  


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    The PDK issue was started by manual lovers bemoaning the fact that driver involvement was taken out of the 991GT3. I defended the PDK having had over 10 years of experience with it despite previously being a die-hard manual lover.Many years ago on this board I predicted the demise of the manual.

    Also, Like most on this board, I was mistaken regarding the Cayenne and Panamera.  They are incredibly successful so much so that Porsche is now considered a SUV/sedan company. Sport cars are an ancillary business.

    You're right that I believe the 911 looked like a glorified VW Beetle. The only models that escape that characterizion are the TT and GT3. They have fixed wings which lately have been enhancing the look of the car. These are the two cars I have bought or plan to purchase.  

    BTW, have you been reading all the post regarding Porsche gouging its customers? Many are beginning to feel like suckers.

    Finally, FWIW it is my understanding that Porsche 911 sales are off 20%.


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Gnil:
    My conclusion , today, is ( but I does change with time ) that for the track I want PDK ( as I want to be fast )  and ' compete' with others. Without PDK I would have already an handicap that is too big, ( I like to pass the F cars Smiley )  and , with my Carrera S PDK I do have fun on a track like the N'Ring . The only place when I do not have fun with PDK on a track, is when the track is ' easy' and there is no car to overtake . Then I miss manual.

    But , on a DD, I would now want manual . Driving around town, on speed limited roads, congested highways is boring . So adding PDK , ends up being even more boring .  A manual will give a little bit of something to do during these sorts of drives, making DD driving a bit more fun .


     

    I thought I would never see a place for PDK in my garage, but after this ridiculously long debate I agree 100% with what Gnil wroteSmileySmiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    The mechanical interaction and enjoyment I get selecting gears in a manual and modulating the clutch of a 911 are irreplaceable, but I do realize finding the perfect line on a track and ringing out the most from a car like the GT3 with PDK must be very rewarding. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    nberry:

    ...

    Also, Like most on this board, I was mistaken regarding the Cayenne and Panamera.  They are incredibly successful so much so that Porsche is now considered a SUV/sedan company. Sport cars are an ancillary business.

    ...

    Finally, FWIW it is my understanding that Porsche 911 sales are off 20%.

    Since sports cars at Porsche have become an ancillary business, is it not more important to differentiate the sports cars from the SUVs and sedans?  Cutting the sausage into a smaller size does not make a sports car and this, in part with the higher prices, are why Porsche 911 sales are lagging forecasts.  Even General Motors realized with the new C7 Corvette, that a manual transmission is an essential part of that car's appeal.  


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    nberry:

    The PDK issue was started by manual lovers bemoaning the fact that driver involvement was taken out of the 991GT3. 

    And they have every right to, since now there is not even a manual gearbox option on the GT3 all of a sudden, especially on a 911 variant that traditionally always has favored the manual gearbox (to the point of not even having an auto option) and of which Porsche always have said that an auto-box did not go with the concept of the GT variants. And they have a right to have that opinion because involvement is a subjective concept, just because it may not be true for you, it deosn't mean its not true for them.

    So the problem is that customers do not get a the option to choose anymore. And I have said many times in reference to the 997GT3 that while I prefered the manual, its a pity that Porsche didn't offer the PDK as an option on it for those that prefered a PDK, because there were valid reasons for people opting for the PDK as well. Its the same thing now only that the situation is reversed and very sad indication of were things are going in Porsche...


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    Why do you believe Porsche decided to not offer manual? Profit? Where I have a problem is since they are offering manual on other 911 models why not on the 991GT3 and 991TT?

    Could it be performance considerations in that without PDK the GT3 and TT would not get any where near the performance parameters the car is capable of? I know when the issue came up with Ferrari, that is the reason they gave.


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    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    nberry:

    Why do you believe Porsche decided to not offer manual? Profit? Where I have a problem is since they are offering manual on other 911 models why not on the 991GT3 and 991TT?

    Could it be performance considerations in that without PDK the GT3 and TT would not get any where near the performance parameters the car is capable of? I know when the issue came up with Ferrari, that is the reason they gave.

     

    It bolils down to profits, they want to save on R&D and production costs of two gearboxes on the GT3 and TT variants if they can get away with it. They must of crunched their numbers and thought that the money they saved outweighed the potential sales they would loose. In the Carrera and Boxter/Cayman versions it would be much harder to justify, hence they still maintain a manual, albeit based on the PDK this time and not bespoke as it always had been.

    Unfortunately I think they loose more than potential sales in the long run...


    --


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    reginos:

    Actually, the 997.1 Turbo is faster with Tiptronic and offers the overboost function (for 8 secs I think)  too. It is the only Porsche sportscar that is worth having with the Tip box.


    --

    "Form follows function"

    The 997.1 TT with Tiptronic was one of the worst driving experience I had in a Porsche. The Tip.box it's just awful, the gears are slow, the buttons horrible to use, the torque converter makes you feel in a 80 Mercedes SEC and it sounds terrible, getting out of the 997.1TT Tip and driving my Carrera S PDK made me think that buying any Porsche with a Tip the worst buying decision one can have in life, it made a wonderful toy like 997.1TT feel boring & very unpleasant car to drive.

    The 997.1TT with manual is so, so much better to drive.

    J.Seven


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    No comparison to PDK but I don't  find it that bad. The Mercedes feel is spot on as it is a Mercedes gearbox. The other Tips used by Porsche couldn't handle the Turbo torque.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

    chuckb:

    Everything I see here about the superiority of real race cars for racing, and real dedicated specialized track toys for real dedicated toy tracking rings true and makes sense. Why any of it is posted in a 991 GT3 forum makes no sense at all to me. 

    Boys love to brag about their toys...or whatever, just enjoy the ride. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


     
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