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    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    Thanks for the link. GT3 is too much car for M3 to match. A C2 or C2S will be a better match.

    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    Quote:
    Targa Tim said:
    Thanks for the link. GT3 is too much car for M3 to match. A C2 or C2S will be a better match.



    I agree.

    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    I don't know German!!!!

    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    Very hard to compare these cars. By watching the video, the M3 looks rather heavy and clunky compared to GT3. Not a fair comparison, even though they both have the same horsepower. You cannot compare any of the BMW line to the GT3. As mentioned above, better comparison with a C2S or a straight carrera. At least I know now, once you start seeing the new M3 with some of the bone heads at there, that you will eat them for lunch.

    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    Very unfair comparison, especially since everyone knows the M3 isn't the track special / weekend racer model in the 3 line-up and the new M3 has been softened up just a little to appeal to a broader audience of buyers.

    A fairer comparison would have been the M3 CSL (when it's released) vs. the GT3.

    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    Quote:
    pride355 said:
    Quote:
    Targa Tim said:
    Thanks for the link. GT3 is too much car for M3 to match. A C2 or C2S will be a better match.



    I agree.



    Not if the C2S has the X51 Powerkit option. There I'd have to disagree.

    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    BMW steering and brakes are incredibly sloppy/inept for an alleged sporty car....have never even heard claims of a BMW (incl CSL) w/competent brakes....

    GT3's only comps are GT3RS (sunroofs are silly on an alleged sportscar, no? ) and Scud....GSL steering/brakes/egear are fairly laughable for an alleged track-focused car that costs $200K+; has a steep deprec curve; and poor daily-useability....

    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    Quote:
    cibergypsy said:
    Quote:
    pride355 said:
    Quote:
    Targa Tim said:
    Thanks for the link. GT3 is too much car for M3 to match. A C2 or C2S will be a better match.



    I agree.



    Not if the C2S has the X51 Powerkit option. There I'd have to disagree.



    With more thoughts after viewing the video again, I think a C2 is enough match for the M3.

    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    Quote:
    Heist said:
    Very unfair comparison, especially since everyone knows the M3 isn't the track special / weekend racer model in the 3 line-up and the new M3 has been softened up just a little to appeal to a broader audience of buyers.

    A fairer comparison would have been the M3 CSL (when it's released) vs. the GT3.



    Yes indeed.

    The new M3 has evolved into a bigger heavier GT car, more of an M4, and should not be compared to true sports cars. The new CSL will be a direct competitor for the GT3 and will get very close, since the old CSl is only 3 seconds slower than the 997 GT3 (7.50 vs 7.47) according to Sport Auto.

    Imagine if the new CSl is actually quicker than the 997 GT3 (et al) while being much more practical and costing considerably less (even after a 5k brake upgrade:).

    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    at close to 1700KG for the new M3, it is very heavy for a pure track (sport) car...

    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    Quote:
    AUM said:
    [...] only 3 seconds slower than the 997 GT3 (7.50 vs 7.47) [...]



    I tend to believe that the Michelin Cup tire has evolved into a less radical tire, being more convenient for wet conditions. Hence the direct comparison between E46 CSL and 997 GT3 appears a bit difficult to me.

    Very curious about the upcoming M3 CSL, by the way.

    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    I really think with the new V8 engine tuned to CSL spec and BMW's extensive use of magnesium and CF, the new CSL when its released will give the GT3 a run for it's money.

    Hell, it may even give the TT trouble! It's only 60Hp down on the paper (but we all know BMW has been underating their engine output lately) but will weigh ~200-250lbs less.

    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    Since the old CSL is equal to the 997 TT, the new CSL should be quicker.

    Sport Auto times:

    997 TT 7.54 N cups
    e46 CSL 7.50 cups
    997 GT3 7.47 N cups

    N cups are probably about 3-4 seconds slower than regular cups.

    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    How "light" is the new CSL going to be based on the previous generations weight?

    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    Quote:
    boytronic said:
    How "light" is the new CSL going to be based on the previous generations weight?



    That is the BIG question. The old CSL was about 1435 kg with aircon. Anything more the 1450 would be too heavy for a CSL.
    L stands for lightweight.

    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    CSL = Coupe Sport Lightweight
    So I presume an extreme focus will be paid on lightening the the M3's newely found weight and expect it to be as, if not more light than the old M3 CSL

    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    Quote:
    Heist said:
    expect it to be as, if not more light than the old M3 CSL


    Why would you expect that? The old CSL also stands for Coupe Sport Lightweight and it began with a lighter & smaller base model...

    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    Heist said:
    expect it to be as, if not more light than the old M3 CSL


    Why would you expect that? The old CSL also stands for Coupe Sport Lightweight and it began with a lighter & smaller base model...



    I'm sorry, I don't fully understand your comment.

    When I said as light as the old model, I was referring to the outgoing E46 CSL.

    I expect the next iteration to be the same weight (Since the new M3 is heavier than the E46) or possibly lighter if they go heavy with the use of magnesium and carbon.

    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    Quote:
    Heist said:I'm sorry, I don't fully understand your comment.

    When I said as light as the old model, I was referring to the outgoing E46 CSL.


    Yes, my point was that it may be unlikely that the E92 CSL could be as light or lighter than the E46 CSL, since the E92 platform is so much larger (and heavier) than the E46 platform...

    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    GT3 and M3, in my opinion, shouldn't be mentioned in the same phrase, much less in the same sentence.

    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    Quote:
    cibergypsy said:
    GT3 and M3, in my opinion, shouldn't be mentioned in the same phrase, much less in the same sentence.



    Why do you say that?
    Hell, the M3 has always been viewed as a competitor to the 911 at half the price much in the same way the 911TT is a competitor to the Ferrari for half the price.

    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    Quote:
    Heist said:
    Quote:
    cibergypsy said:
    GT3 and M3, in my opinion, shouldn't be mentioned in the same phrase, much less in the same sentence.



    Why do you say that?
    Hell, the M3 has always been viewed as a competitor to the 911 at half the price much in the same way the 911TT is a competitor to the Ferrari for half the price.



    A 911 Turbo at half the price of a Ferrari? Only in Jesusland . They cost almost the same everywhere else.

    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    Quote:
    Heist said:
    Quote:
    cibergypsy said:
    GT3 and M3, in my opinion, shouldn't be mentioned in the same phrase, much less in the same sentence.



    Why do you say that?
    Hell, the M3 has always been viewed as a competitor to the 911 at half the price much in the same way the 911TT is a competitor to the Ferrari for half the price.



    You should read a sentence fully before replying. If you read my statement again, you'll see I wrote "GT3 and M3" not "911 and M3" in order to refer to the GT3 and not the Carrera based 911. I truly believe an M3 should NOT be mentioned in the same phrase or sentence as a GT3!

    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    Quote:
    Heist said:
    Quote:
    cibergypsy said:
    GT3 and M3, in my opinion, shouldn't be mentioned in the same phrase, much less in the same sentence.



    Why do you say that?
    Hell, the M3 has always been viewed as a competitor to the 911 at half the price much in the same way the 911TT is a competitor to the Ferrari for half the price.



    Also, I don't think the math adds up. My brother's F430 with manual transmission starts at around $175k for a base car. His came out to be a little over $186k when done with the "very" few options he wanted. A 997 Turbo goes for about $126200 base price. That is a ratio of 126.2/175 = 0.72 or, in other words, a base 911 Turbo costs approximately 3/4 of the price of a base manual Ferrari F430. The inverse of that ratio is that the same base manual Ferrari costs about 1.39 times more than a base 997 Turbo.

    I used the Porsche configurator and found a realistically optioned manual 997 Turbo would go for $131k. Again that amounts to 131/186 (comparing optioned Ferrari 430 and optioned 997 Turbo) = .70.

    Both of these figures are definitely not close to 50% or 1/2 the price.

    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    I hate to say it, but the new M3 looks "heavy"... I see it going head-to-head with Grand Touring cars, not track-oriented cars such as the GT3... (the 1st M3s looked so much nicer)

    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    If you want a sedan with "sporty feel" buy the m3. I'd never trade my 997 for a bmw, but would consider it as my daily driver, in addition to my 997.

    Re: 997 GT3 vs BMW M3

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Heist said:
    Quote:
    cibergypsy said:
    GT3 and M3, in my opinion, shouldn't be mentioned in the same phrase, much less in the same sentence.



    Why do you say that?
    Hell, the M3 has always been viewed as a competitor to the 911 at half the price much in the same way the 911TT is a competitor to the Ferrari for half the price.



    A 911 Turbo at half the price of a Ferrari? Only in Jesusland . They cost almost the same everywhere else.


    here in brazil the 997turbo costs half than a ferrari f430 costs.

     
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