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    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    nberry:

    Hmm, driving a 700-800hp car is as safe as driving a 200-300hp car. This kind of thinking gets people killed. 

    Seriously, if you going to drive the speed limit with a700or higher hp car, what's the point of the additional hp? The problem with very high hp cars is between the incredible acceleration while trying to keep the car stable much can happen especially on public roads. A fraction of a second can be the difference of a driver killing himself or killing someone. The difference in performance between a 500hp car and 700 can be dramatic especially if the weight close to the same.Driver skill is helpful but not determinative of whether you end up in the weeds.

    So please those of you that claim that high hp is as safe as small hp, don't insult the intelligence of those that participate here. If you want to believe your bullshit, fine. Don't waste bandwidth trying to convince others.

    Do you think a 150 hp car is safer with a drunk driver behind the wheels vs an experienced sober driver with 700 hp Smiley Smiley

    There's no such thing as 'Safe' behind any car, if you can't abide by traffic laws then you're considered a dangerous person even to a pedestrian if you were on a bicycle or segway.

    Don't you think a Cayman is more than enough for the streets instead of a 500 hp GT3 Smiley Smiley

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n4_EMGdRZg

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Any news on the allocations ?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    nberry:

    Hmm, driving a 700-800hp car is as safe as driving a 200-300hp car. This kind of thinking gets people killed. 

    Seriously, if you going to drive the speed limit with a700or higher hp car, what's the point of the additional hp? The problem with very high hp cars is between the incredible acceleration while trying to keep the car stable much can happen especially on public roads. A fraction of a second can be the difference of a driver killing himself or killing someone. The difference in performance between a 500hp car and 700 can be dramatic especially if the weight close to the same.Driver skill is helpful but not determinative of whether you end up in the weeds.

    So please those of you that claim that high hp is as safe as small hp, don't insult the intelligence of those that participate here. If you want to believe your bullshit, fine. Don't waste bandwidth trying to convince others.

    Nick, like in modern physics, its all relative to your frame of reference, many people would say the exact same thing about buying a 500HP RWD GT3, and from their point of view they are just as right as you are, and others can say that 700HP RWD is not a problem, and they are right as well.

    Sure the higher the HP they arguably harder it is to control when close at the limit, but there is no HP black line for all, its a grey scale and one that shifts significantly depending on each's own situation (the type of place were the car is driven, the driver's skills, the driver's common sense, the safety buffer one is will to give when driving it, etc).

    To say that 500HP RWD is OK but 700HP RWD is not, is a bit egocentric and narrow minded IMO, you can make that argument about yourself, but not about all others. And personally I would prefer a GT3RS to a GT2RS myself, but I can see how others may prefer the GT2RS and there is nothing wrong with that, and its certainly not about bragging.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Carlos from Spain:
    nberry:

    Hmm, driving a 700-800hp car is as safe as driving a 200-300hp car. This kind of thinking gets people killed. 

    Seriously, if you going to drive the speed limit with a700or higher hp car, what's the point of the additional hp? The problem with very high hp cars is between the incredible acceleration while trying to keep the car stable much can happen especially on public roads. A fraction of a second can be the difference of a driver killing himself or killing someone. The difference in performance between a 500hp car and 700 can be dramatic especially if the weight close to the same.Driver skill is helpful but not determinative of whether you end up in the weeds.

    So please those of you that claim that high hp is as safe as small hp, don't insult the intelligence of those that participate here. If you want to believe your bullshit, fine. Don't waste bandwidth trying to convince others.

    Nick, like in modern physics, its all relative to your frame of reference, many people would say the exact same thing about buying a 500HP RWD GT3, and from their point of view they are just as right as you are, and others can say that 700HP RWD is not a problem, and they are right as well.

    Sure the higher the HP they arguably harder it is to control when close at the limit, but there is no HP black line for all, its a grey scale and one that shifts significantly depending on each's own situation (the type of place were the car is driven, the driver's skills, the driver's common sense, the safety buffer one is will to give when driving it, etc).

    To say that 500HP RWD is OK but 700HP RWD is not, is a bit egocentric and narrow minded IMO, you can make that argument about yourself, but not about all others. And personally I would prefer a GT3RS to a GT2RS myself, but I can see how others may prefer the GT2RS and there is nothing wrong with that, and its certainly not about bragging.

    Very well said.Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Throttle isn't an on/off switch. The only thing low hp/tq helps with is abrupt loss of traction if you floor it. Otherwise, you can use as little or as much power as you want, 100, 200, 500, 700... Whatever you want.

    It's not that hard not to go full throttle and use correct input. It's not like a 700hp car turns into a demolition derby in a parking lot...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Carlos, a GT3 with 500hp is infinitely more manageable by a factor of 5 than a GT2 with 700hp or 800 hp GT2 over 10 years old. You can loss a GT2 with 700hp substantially easier than a 500hp GT3. Its like the Richter scale for estimating strength of earthquakes. Each one point quadruples the severity. The higher the increments of hp the more dangerous the car becomes regardless of the driver talent.

    Yes, it's a matter of degree but with each additional hp the risk rises. There is a tipping point where a car with high hp and less weight is stupid dangerous regardless as to how much experience the driver has. Wallister said driving the GT2 is "insane". His words. Now maybe he was marketing the car to the fearless high hp nuts.

    Again, Porsche gained its reputation not with hp but with agility and quality.


    --

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    nberry:

    Carlos, a GT3 with 500hp is infinitely more manageable by a factor of 5 than a GT2 with 700hp or 800 hp GT2 over 10 years old. You can loss a GT2 with 700hp substantially easier than a 500hp GT3. Its like the Richter scale for estimating strength of earthquakes. Each one point quadruples the severity. The higher the increments of hp the more dangerous the car becomes regardless of the driver talent.

     

    While this sounds logically correct I still don't feel so in real life Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    nberry:

    Carlos, a GT3 with 500hp is infinitely more manageable by a factor of 5 than a GT2 with 700hp or 800 hp GT2 over 10 years old. You can loss a GT2 with 700hp substantially easier than a 500hp GT3. Its like the Richter scale for estimating strength of earthquakes. Each one point quadruples the severity. The higher the increments of hp the more dangerous the car becomes regardless of the driver talent.

    Yes, it's a matter of degree but with each additional hp the risk rises. There is a tipping point where a car with high hp and less weight is stupid dangerous regardless as to how much experience the driver has. Wallister said driving the GT2 is "insane". His words. Now maybe he was marketing the car to the fearless high hp nuts.

    Again, Porsche gained its reputation not with hp but with agility and quality.

    What makes you think a car such as the GT2 needs someone such as Wallister to attract as many customers as possible and brainwash them to book one asap Smiley  If it weren't for PDK you wouldn't be hearing many people jumping on the list - hence: Ferrari / Lamborghini / McLaren / 991 GT3 + RS

    Have you ever driven a GT2 from the previous generations ? Of course not, because you loathe any car that comes with a manual and you have said it over and over again, you cannot focus on the road and use the clutch pedal and shifter at the same time, let alone a powerful car. The problem is with you and not these high powered cars, I bet you'd screw up in a 360 hp 996 GT3 if Porsche ever released it with PSM + Softest clutch pedal on the planet Smiley

    It's only a matter of time before we hear you trading a GT3 for a Ferrari convertible with over 500 hp because it's a safer car  Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    I know people who drive 1500 HP gallardo daily and they have no problems...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    nberry:

    Carlos, a GT3 with 500hp is infinitely more manageable by a factor of 5 than a GT2 with 700hp or 800 hp GT2 over 10 years old. You can loss a GT2 with 700hp substantially easier than a 500hp GT3. Its like the Richter scale for estimating strength of earthquakes. Each one point quadruples the severity. The higher the increments of hp the more dangerous the car becomes regardless of the driver talent.

    Yes, it's a matter of degree but with each additional hp the risk rises. There is a tipping point where a car with high hp and less weight is stupid dangerous regardless as to how much experience the driver has. Wallister said driving the GT2 is "insane". His words. Now maybe he was marketing the car to the fearless high hp nuts.

    Again, Porsche gained its reputation not with hp but with agility and quality.

    Nick, you are conveniently drawing the line in between a 500Hp RWD car and a 700HP RWD one because you have the former on order, the 500HP magic number is all too convenient. I think a 400HP AWD 991 C4 driver would beg to differ. What about a 991 Turbo S driver? He could very well say that it is nuts to have 500HP without AWD, and RWD at that power is too risky. It's not back and white and 500HP is not the tipping point because it suits you.

    Also HP does not increment risk logarithmically, that is not how physics works, each HP increment influences the car less and less due to HP/weight ratio, drag, etc and there are many many factors like tires, driver, rpms,  road conditions, weight of the car, electronics, drivetrain, aerodynamics, and a long list that curves that. So it's impossible to draw an arbitrary line for everyone. Like I said, you could make that assertion for yourself but not for others.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Carlos, I was only defending your assertions regarding the GT3. If I accept your argument, then a car with 2000hp weighing 2000 lbs is perfectly safe. Is that your position?

    Also, I take issue regarding the points in your second paragraph. If anything more hp will have a negative influence on tires, road conditions and aerodynamics. The sooner and faster you accelerate, the greater the pressure on all these factors.

    To BI Turbo point. I am not against MT but rather prefer PDK. I also want a car that can be managed with the hp given to it. Unlike most here, I firmly believe a car can have too much hp. It takes the enjoyment out of driving and significantly increases risks. But you're right. I am not sure how long I will hang on the the .2GT3. I enjoy jumping in out of cars especially if I find a car I would enjoy.


    --

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Get off my lawn!


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    I think we need Nick to let us know how much power is too much. Awesome. Funny and sad at the same time. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    nberry:

    Carlos, a GT3 with 500hp is infinitely more manageable by a factor of 5 than a GT2 with 700hp or 800 hp GT2 over 10 years old. You can loss a GT2 with 700hp substantially easier than a 500hp GT3. Its like the Richter scale for estimating strength of earthquakes. Each one point quadruples the severity. The higher the increments of hp the more dangerous the car becomes regardless of the driver talent.

    Out of curiosity, how did you come up with that factor?

    Sorry Nick, I have to agree with others that it sounds quite funny that a 500 hp GT3 can be justified whereas a 700 hp GT2 cannot. Certainly the latter is defined by and delivers its power with tremendous torque whereas the former by its rev limit but do you really think that makes any difference to the driver of a minivan? Both GT models have too much power for a public street, something you have stated repeatedly before.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    SmileyLeawood911:

    I think we need Nick to let us know how much power is too much. Awesome. Funny and sad at the same time.

     

    JK LOL

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Latest information

    GT2RS production starts in November 2018, but North American cars don't start until May 2018, something to do with European cars has to be delivered by June 2018 regarding EU regulations.

     

     

    Now since the next GT3RS will be shown at Geneva 2018, I really don't foresee too many GT2RS for North American market being made. perhaps till towards the end of the year. And production of the .2 GT3RS should start around June 2018 if not May. Unless Porsche decided to start them after the factory holiday.

    I certainly don't think Porsche will keep 3 GT cars in production at the same time, perhaps the .2 GT3 will only be made until next June/July?


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Nick, I'm guessing you meant to say Nov 17 instead on Nov 18?

    BTW, when do you reckon production of the GT2RS will cease?


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    I know that the auto blogs are rife with posters who are the greatest drivers on the face of the earth. Yet most would acknowledge (though reluctantly) that even they can only get 60-70% of the car capability. Now if you hand that driver 200 more hp what the fuck do you think is going to happen? Its common sense they will want to test the limits of the car which now has 30% more hp. Everything they tried to do with a car with 200 hp less will be magnified by at least a factor of five when they try to do it with a car with 200 more hp.

    Cars with more hp are more dangerous. I am surprised I even have to debate the issue.mail

    Nick, if your information is accurate, then .2GT3 owners have a lot to celebrate.Smiley

     


    --

     

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Sorry Nick but in reality it is the car/driver combo that is dangerous, not just the car or just the driver. The HP limit will be different for everyone. More HP is more dangerous, no one is denying that. But you cannot put an artificial limit at 500hp or so.

    For example most of us around here are much better drivers in a 700hp than my nanny with a 100hp car angry


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Carlos from Spain:

    Nick, I'm guessing you meant to say Nov 17 instead on Nov 18?

    BTW, when do you reckon production of the GT2RS will cease?

     

    Yes Nov 2017.

    As for the end of production, one I guess well know fact is that a model year can only have one January for North American market cars.

    And because of the EU regulations, the EU cars can only be made from Nov 2017 to May/June 2018. I am roughly guessing RoW cars are mixed in with those and the North American cars.

    On the other hand, it would look bad if a 2018 car for North America is made in 2019, unless Porsche label the later cars as a 2019 model. 

     

     

     


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    nberry:

    I know that the auto blogs are rife with posters who are the greatest drivers on the face of the earth. Yet most would acknowledge (though reluctantly) that even they can only get 60-70% of the car capability. Now if you hand that driver 200 more hp what the fuck do you think is going to happen? Its common sense they will want to test the limits of the car which now has 30% more hp. Everything they tried to do with a car with 200 hp less will be magnified by at least a factor of five when they try to do it with a car with 200 more hp.

    Same exact thing can be said but using a GT4 and .2 GT3. And so on down, or up, the scale of HP. You cannot simply use just a HP figure to draw the line, there are many other factors involved, including different drivers. But what totally discredits your argument is you drawing the line so conveniently at 500HP w/ no AWD which coincidentally is what your GT3 will have. 

    So if the 991.2GT3RS comes with 550HP you won't switch to it because of the HP or will you continue to push that imaginary line upwards to fit your needs? SmileySmiley


    --

     

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Whoopsy:
    Carlos from Spain:

    Nick, I'm guessing you meant to say Nov 17 instead on Nov 18?

    BTW, when do you reckon production of the GT2RS will cease?

     

    Yes Nov 2017.

    As for the end of production, one I guess well know fact is that a model year can only have one January for North American market cars.

    And because of the EU regulations, the EU cars can only be made from Nov 2017 to May/June 2018. I am roughly guessing RoW cars are mixed in with those and the North American cars.

    On the other hand, it would look bad if a 2018 car for North America is made in 2019, unless Porsche label the later cars as a 2019 model. 

    That is not a lot of time to produce many GT2RS, especially if they will also be making other GT models during that time as you mentioned as well. In the end they may not even be able to supply the total demand if that demand is as good as it seems....


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    nberry:

    Hmm, driving a 700-800hp car is as safe as driving a 200-300hp car. This kind of thinking gets people killed. 

    Seriously, if you going to drive the speed limit with a700or higher hp car, what's the point of the additional hp? The problem with very high hp cars is between the incredible acceleration while trying to keep the car stable much can happen especially on public roads. A fraction of a second can be the difference of a driver killing himself or killing someone. The difference in performance between a 500hp car and 700 can be dramatic especially if the weight close to the same.Driver skill is helpful but not determinative of whether you end up in the weeds.

    So please those of you that claim that high hp is as safe as small hp, don't insult the intelligence of those that participate here. If you want to believe your bullshit, fine. Don't waste bandwidth trying to convince others.

    I am not going to convince anyone with a skull thick enough to judge all and everything by his own standards.

    Obviously you can not comprehend the simple fact that it is never a car that is dangerous but the individual behind the wheel and that is the only point I am trying to make here.

    I still insist that a today's car with 700 HP and the entire complement of electronic nannies (including an automatic transmission you are so fond of) is SAFER , meaning easier, to drive for an average Joe Schmo then 200HP car from early 90s with no ESP or Traction control and ABS.

    Btw, this one sentence from you takes the cake for the worst BS ever : "Driver skill is helpful but not determinative of whether you end up in the weeds."Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    You must be one of the worlds greatest drivers on the internet. 

    Answer this question. Why do all major super sport cars with high hp have electronic nannies? Is it because the car is safe without them?  

     


    --

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Has anybody confirmed his gt2 contract yet ? I haven't heard back yet if yes or no despite all paperwork done.....


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    BjoernB:

    Has anybody confirmed his gt2 contract yet ? I haven't heard back yet if yes or no despite all paperwork done.....

    The dealer told me that they have no news on allocation yet . 

    I wonder how Porsche is going to manage the huge demand and the rumored small building time frame ?  It looks like they would miss a big opportunity to make money if they only built the car for a few month . 

    Demand is huge for the GT2 RS  .  300 orders already in Switzerland only . 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    Dubay:

    Any news on the allocations ?

    Pretty bad right now (allover the world) but more allocations could be available for 2018.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    BjoernB:

    Has anybody confirmed his gt2 contract yet ? I haven't heard back yet if yes or no despite all paperwork done.....

    I think Porsche needs a few weeks to give the green light on each contract...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    SciFrog:

    Sorry Nick but in reality it is the car/driver combo that is dangerous, not just the car or just the driver. The HP limit will be different for everyone. More HP is more dangerous, no one is denying that. But you cannot put an artificial limit at 500hp or so.

    For example most of us around here are much better drivers in a 700hp than my nanny with a 100hp car angry

    Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017)

    My dealer told me that they wouldn't get any news regarding allocations until October/November.... No confirmation yet, he'll, not even a configurator on the Swedish homepage!heart

    But I'm not in for the first batch (November builds), but rather the latter since I'm aiming at a Weissach😎

    But who knows what kind of allocation PAG will give Sweden? Two "ordinary" and one Weissach at best? yes And the demand is HUGE from what I've heard.....


     
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