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    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Jeezes. Are you talking the dealer to court or the factory? And is the car in your possession now?

    Good luck with the case, might take a while...Just as I was looking for a 458, might skip that. 👀


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    spudgun:

    Jeezes. Are you talking the dealer to court or the factory? And is the car in your possession now?

    Good luck with the case, might take a while...Just as I was looking for a 458, might skip that. 👀

    No, it's at the dealer, as we thought an agreement was imminent, we left it there. 

    I would love a 458 Speciale at some point, but indeed, this experience has put me off for a little while.


    --

    1988 Peugeot 205 Rallye / 2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS  / 2018 Mercedes-AMG E63 S / 2020 Ferrari 812SF


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Terrible to hear. I"m assuming that it was dealer counsel and not factory counsel?

    Informing the factory that they would be added as a party to the suit and showing copy of the articles that are going to flood the media may do something. 

    I can reach out to Tom Narayan at RBC who covers Ferrari and see if he could make a call for you?


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Porker:
    Porker:
    watt:

    Well Frank,

    Ferrari certainly damaging future sales with their behaviour toward to you, and then major brake debacle.  As a public company - pressure from your lawyer, especially publicised will get a reaction.

    Well as it stands, he refused our last amicable offer -if he doesn't get support from the factory-, deadline until Wednesday.

    It seems it'll go to court, instead of an acceptance or a counter offer, we received a reply from their counsel. An extremely ill-informed reply at that, stating that we had no basis to ask for compensation.

    I think our proposal had been very reasonable, we took a lowly market offer (275k CHF) and asked for 50k CHF in compensation on top for the +300 days the car has been in repair over the course of two years.

    Speechless... Smiley

    Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't this car spend more time at the dealer than in your garage and went in on multiple occasions without them being able to definitively fix the issue???


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Mithras:

    Terrible to hear. I"m assuming that it was dealer counsel and not factory counsel?

    Informing the factory that they would be added as a party to the suit and showing copy of the articles that are going to flood the media may do something. 

    I can reach out to Tom Narayan at RBC who covers Ferrari and see if he could make a call for you?

    The dealer's counsel, Ferrari themselves are no contractual party to us. You could if you think he has the right contacts within.


    --

    1988 Peugeot 205 Rallye / 2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS  / 2018 Mercedes-AMG E63 S / 2020 Ferrari 812SF


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Carlos from Spain:
    Porker:
    Porker:
    watt:

    Well Frank,

    Ferrari certainly damaging future sales with their behaviour toward to you, and then major brake debacle.  As a public company - pressure from your lawyer, especially publicised will get a reaction.

    Well as it stands, he refused our last amicable offer -if he doesn't get support from the factory-, deadline until Wednesday.

    It seems it'll go to court, instead of an acceptance or a counter offer, we received a reply from their counsel. An extremely ill-informed reply at that, stating that we had no basis to ask for compensation.

    I think our proposal had been very reasonable, we took a lowly market offer (275k CHF) and asked for 50k CHF in compensation on top for the +300 days the car has been in repair over the course of two years.

    Speechless... Smiley

    Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't this car spend more time at the dealer than in your garage and went in on multiple occasions without them being able to definitively fix the issue???

    Correct, supposedly now since one week, (the car has been at the dealer since November) it is ready and fixed. Smiley


    --

    1988 Peugeot 205 Rallye / 2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS  / 2018 Mercedes-AMG E63 S / 2020 Ferrari 812SF


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    I haven't followed the thread close enough. What is your basis for returning the car and receiving a refund? Does Switzerland have a lemon law?

    Instead of filing suit (very expensive), does Switzerland have binding arbitration?


    --

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    AFAIK there's no equivalent to a lemon law in CH.  The basis for returning the car is that it has spent 40% of the time since delivery at various dealerships trying to solve engine related issues (in the meantime, batteries, the full engine, the exhaust system, etc... have all been replaced, 1000 of km's have been done in test drives, ...)


    --

    1988 Peugeot 205 Rallye / 2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS  / 2018 Mercedes-AMG E63 S / 2020 Ferrari 812SF


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Unbelievable…


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Porker:

    AFAIK there's no equivalent to a lemon law in CH.  The basis for returning the car is that it has spent 40% of the time since delivery at various dealerships trying to solve engine related issues (in the meantime, batteries, the full engine, the exhaust system, etc... have all been replaced, 1000 of km's have been done in test drives, ...)

    Has Ferrari/dealership corrected the problem? Or are they saying it has been corrected and you disagree?Smiley

     

     


    --

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Maybe you can scroll through the thread and read the posts? 


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    spudgun:

    Maybe you can scroll through the thread and read the posts? 

    Smiley


    --

    1988 Peugeot 205 Rallye / 2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS  / 2018 Mercedes-AMG E63 S / 2020 Ferrari 812SF


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    spudgun:

    Maybe you can scroll through the thread and read the posts? 

    If you read my recent post on this matter, you’ll get my answer.

    As a fellow RT member I was trying to help another member since I have experience in this area particularly with Ferrari. Clearly I was mistaken to do so and will ignore this thread in the future.Smiley


    --

     

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

     


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    nberry:
    spudgun:

    Maybe you can scroll through the thread and read the posts? 

    If you read my recent post on this matter, you’ll get my answer.

    As a fellow RT member I was trying to help another member since I have experience in this area particularly with Ferrari. Clearly I was mistaken to do so and will ignore this thread in the future.Smiley


    --

     

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

     

    Hi Nick, very kind of you that you want to help, but it's true that the questions you're asking have long been clarified on previous pages. That's all...


    --

    1988 Peugeot 205 Rallye / 2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS  / 2018 Mercedes-AMG E63 S / 2020 Ferrari 812SF


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    No offence, glad you can share your thoughts with your experience in the field, but only tapping in a thread and asking all the questions already answered stalls the conversation. Feel free to join the conversation, just read the previous posts to get up to speed, like we all do 👍🏼🥂


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Porker:
    nberry:
    spudgun:

    Maybe you can scroll through the thread and read the posts? 

    If you read my recent post on this matter, you’ll get my answer.

    As a fellow RT member I was trying to help another member since I have experience in this area particularly with Ferrari. Clearly I was mistaken to do so and will ignore this thread in the future.Smiley


    --

     

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

     

    Hi Nick, very kind of you that you want to help, but it's true that the questions you're asking have long been clarified on previous pages. That's all...

    Frank, just to clarify, I was asking about their position during the meeting you recently you and your lawyer had with them. A great deal can be gleaned from their statements during the meeting. My. Bad.Smiley


    --

    The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Porker:
    Mithras:

    Terrible to hear. I"m assuming that it was dealer counsel and not factory counsel?

    Informing the factory that they would be added as a party to the suit and showing copy of the articles that are going to flood the media may do something. 

    I can reach out to Tom Narayan at RBC who covers Ferrari and see if he could make a call for you?

    The dealer's counsel, Ferrari themselves are no contractual party to us. You could if you think he has the right contacts within.

    The CMO and Picca Picon the CFO have been sent the link to this thread.


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Smiley


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    As we didn't come to an agreement for them to take back the car, we decided to take the matter to court. 

    To illustrate the absurdity of the dealership, we have arranged for the car to be picked up by another dealer that will sell the car for us. All good, the car is ready for pick-up, until last night I receive an email from the CEO stating "just allow us the time to put your old tires back on." 

    The background to this is, they had put fresh tires on the car as the car had covered so many miles in testing etc. To which at the time I had said, "you can't expect us to pay for new tires as we haven't gotten any use out of it". To which the reaction during our meeting was, 'don't worry, we cover the cost for the tires as a service, given all the issues."

    When push comes to shove, he's getting the fresh tires back off. 

    It's sad, I have no other words for it.


    --

    1988 Peugeot 205 Rallye / 2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS  / 2018 Mercedes-AMG E63 S / 2020 Ferrari 812SF


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Lol. Did you get the old engine block btw?

    Is it a well known dealer? In case one of us walks in that clown shop...


    --

    997.2 4S / BMW 745e / Donkervoort GT 


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    I'm sorry to hear about all your troubles. Must be really frustrating. It will probably take a long time to resolve. Hopefully you'll be on the roads/tracks soon again. I cross my fingers that you will find justice in all this.


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    spudgun:

    Lol. Did you get the old engine block btw?

    Is it a well known dealer? In case one of us walks in that clown shop...

    No, it was sent back to the factory to examine. They might yet want to install that one back in as well. Smiley

    Yes, it's the main dealer in Geneva.


    --

    1988 Peugeot 205 Rallye / 2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS  / 2018 Mercedes-AMG E63 S / 2020 Ferrari 812SF


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    I take my words back, after confronting them with their own words, they do let us keep the tires. Correct is correct.  


    --

    1988 Peugeot 205 Rallye / 2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS  / 2018 Mercedes-AMG E63 S / 2020 Ferrari 812SF


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    The two happiest days in a Ferrari owner's life are the day they buy a Ferrari and the day they get rid of it.

    I wish the latter day comes very soon.


    --

    "Porsche....and Nothing else matters"


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Amazing how you can still stay cool under these circumstances. I know I would not had be able to.

    Congrats on the new tires Smiley


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Apparently the dealer in Lausanne is worst then the one in Geneva heart


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    It’s baffling that Ferrari, as the manufacturer, has not become involved.  Many years ago we had a recalcitrant Volkswagen Golf that the dealer tried to resolve but couldn’t.  We remained on good terms with the dealership as they consciously tried to solve the issue.   They couldn’t and when we contacted Volkswagen of America, they graciously stepped in to try to fix the issue.  Even factory representatives from Germany couldn’t solve the problem so they bought the car back without question.  The dealership even told us that the car was sent to Germany in an attempt to figure out why the issue remained problematic.  
     

    One would expect Ferrari to be much more accommodating than a mass producer of city shopping trolleys.  This is disappointing on so many levels and everyone commiserates with you.  


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    Porker:

    To illustrate the absurdity of the dealership, we have arranged for the car to be picked up by another dealer that will sell the car for us. All good, the car is ready for pick-up, until last night I receive an email from the CEO stating "just allow us the time to put your old tires back on." 

    The background to this is, they had put fresh tires on the car as the car had covered so many miles in testing etc. To which at the time I had said, "you can't expect us to pay for new tires as we haven't gotten any use out of it". To which the reaction during our meeting was, 'don't worry, we cover the cost for the tires as a service, given all the issues."


    Reminds me - A LOT - of the experience I once had with my first F-dealer. I was driving a F360 at that time, it was my second Ferrari from him, the next had already been ordered and reservation fee been paid to get one of the early cars, F360 was only meant as a stop-gap. We attended in a small group of customers at the Ferrari Racing Days, hotel, parking, all had been organized by the dealer (for a price). Unfortunately many cars had been vandalised over night, although a save parking area over night had been communicated. Badges violently torn out, paint scratched, a very sad experience. I was lucky that my car didn't have the now very common side shields, since these are very hard to remove (not possible without further damage). Only my badge from the frunk was missing and the scratch from the screwdriver was beneath the place where the badge sits, nothing else was visible.
    Well, needless to say that all customers were very upset, but dealer paid for the damages and all seemed good.
    At this time I was already speculating about the next car, as I was promised to get one of the first, but the dealer had lied to me all the time. He never wanted to sell me an early car, though he always promised. Logically I canceled my reservation and had to claim my fee back, which they did after two months. But they finally deducted the cost for the trunk badge and only paid the differential. Smiley



    Sorry to derail you thread. Smiley

    --

     

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

     


    Re: Wandered to the dark side

    reginos:

    The two happiest days in a Ferrari owner's life are the day they buy a Ferrari and the day they get rid of it.

    I wish the latter day comes very soon.

    I can say the same thing about my BMW / Porsche dealers, which to this day are pure rubbish Smiley

    Blame is on the dealer and their unqualified staff / mechanics. 


     
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