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    GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    Sportauto with the famous driver Horst has driven the new Skyline on N-ring.

    *7:50 --- 157.787 km/h -- Nissan GT-R, 480 PS/1750 kg, Horst von Saurma, partially wet track (sport auto 12/07)*


    Horst von Saurma, chief editor of sport auto magazine, completed about 100 kms with the new Nissan GT-R at the Nurburgring Nordschleife. Best time he achieved was a 7:50 on a partiallly wet track especially at one of the key passages so called Kesselchen.

    With all the electronic aids the handling is absolutely perfect, the driver doens't feel how the drive-by-wire system really works as the GT-R stay on track like on rails, always has grip, doesn't lose control, higly computerized and a perfect racer for the street. A time less than 7:40 is pretty much optimistic, 7:50 shows the true potential of the car. And when the price stays at the announced level, it is a real bargain.

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    Well i think in Europe the car has been reported to be more then 120000 Euro that i consider not a bargain as it is for the US market. Has anybody of you the official price for the old continent?

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    Quote:
    silvershadow said:
    Well i think in Europe the car has been reported to be more then 120000 Euro that i consider not a bargain as it is for the US market. Has anybody of you the official price for the old continent?



    AFAIK the official price hasn't been announced yet but in an interview Carlos Ghosn mentioned the formula: "performance of a 997TT for half the price" which would translate to appr. 70 k Euro for Germany.

    As for the US - dealer mark-up speculation is on
    http://www.leftlanenews.com/gt-r-pricing-out-of-nissans-control.html

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    Read here for a starting price tag that's in England 60000 pounds. I was refering to a full loaded version

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle.aspx?AR=228928

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    For example:

    USA:
    Nissan 350Z: 27.980$
    Nissan GT-R Base: 69.850$
    Nissan GT-R Premium 71.900$

    Spain:
    Nissan 350Z: 64.675$ - 43.545 Euro
    Nissan GT-R Base: 161.456$ - 108.719 Euro
    Nissan GT-R Premium: 166.194$ - 111.910 Euro

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    silvershadow said:
    Well i think in Europe the car has been reported to be more then 120000 Euro that i consider not a bargain as it is for the US market. Has anybody of you the official price for the old continent?



    AFAIK the official price hasn't been announced yet but in an interview Carlos Ghosn mentioned the formula: "performance of a 997TT for half the price" which would translate to appr. 70 k Euro for Germany.

    As for the US - dealer mark-up speculation is on
    http://www.leftlanenews.com/gt-r-pricing-out-of-nissans-control.html



    In Germany base price will be Euro 90K with Mwst.

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    At the end the GT-R will not be such a bargain as it is for the US market

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    What bothers me is electronics doing all the work for the driver. It may be faster than I could ever be, but I don't particularly appreciate the car doing stuff for me .

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    The problem with electronics doing everything is well known.
    I just gives you the idea the limit is far away but actually is not. In this regard i've learned a lot driving my 993 and now my 996. As far as i jump into a car in which assistence is very high i immediately find how misleading is the feedback you receive....

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    So all those here who previously rubbished the GT-R, where are you now? This thing is clearly faster than a 911TT isn't it? HvS did 7:55 on a F430, 7:54 on a 997TT, 7:52 on a Ford GT, 7:48 on a GT3 and 7:47 on a 599GTB. Sounds like the GTR is faster than them all had it been a dry track!

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    Yes the GT-R seems a fast car but this, as always, doesn't mean that the guys who target their expenses to get a Ferrari or a Lambo or a Porsche will buy one.
    You will find very few of this "upper level" clients buy one, for the same reason why most of them prefer their cars to a Z06.

    The car looks ugly and feels like the one a M3 E46, R32, or so driver will buy.

    I will personally not take into account that car even if it does Nordschleife in 7.00 because of style, depreciation, personal feelings.

    Will somebody of you put aside his porsche/lambo/ferrari for one of this?

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    111KEUR for this?
    If you put this money in a car, you might as well go 997TT
    or
    if you are a M3/R32 customer, you still will NOT put that money in a car.
    I bet they will be simply rare in Europe.
    $69K is different money tough....that I can understand. But if those prices are correct, 111KEUR????

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    I don't know about Europe, but over here it will likely be slightly less than the new M3. As for silvershadow's question, no, I don't think many of us would give up our exotics for one. Maybe a Boxster or Cayman owner but not a 911 TT owner (very different price points). But I for one would consider getting one in addition to the other cars.

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    Quote:
    WAY said:
    So all those here who previously rubbished the GT-R, where are you now? This thing is clearly faster than a 911TT isn't it? HvS did 7:55 on a F430, 7:54 on a 997TT, 7:52 on a Ford GT, 7:48 on a GT3 and 7:47 on a 599GTB. Sounds like the GTR is faster than them all had it been a dry track!



    Way, it isn't a problem to make a car fast by way of electronics (which is exactly what the GT-R does). The Japanese are highly skilled in making high-tech drivetrains (possibly the best in the world), but I wouldsn't call that driving pleasure. By the WAY ( ), the 997TT did it in 7:52.

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    Im just happy as a prospective buyer it keeps up!

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Way, it isn't a problem to make a car fast by way of electronics (which is exactly what the GT-R does). The Japanese are highly skilled in making high-tech drivetrains (possibly the best in the world), but I wouldsn't call that driving pleasure.



    Indeed, the GT-R may be on its way to become not only the fugliest most tasteless car in the 500HP category, but also the most boring to drive. Pricewise, I think I'd rather have a Z06

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Way, it isn't a problem to make a car fast by way of electronics (which is exactly what the GT-R does). The Japanese are highly skilled in making high-tech drivetrains (possibly the best in the world), but I wouldsn't call that driving pleasure.



    Indeed, the GT-R may be on its way to become not only the fugliest most tasteless car in the 500HP category, but also the most boring to drive. Pricewise, I think I'd rather have a Z06



    Ditto. The Z06 is the car I'd take any day over the GT-R.

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    WAY, I agree with you.

    LOL, when the gorgeous Aston V8 came out, with good enough performance to match its looks, many people say 911 is faster at the Ring by x seconds etc, etc.

    Now that the GTR is so fast at the Ring, many people say again that it's ugly, too much electronics, NO premium BADGE, etc

    Since when badge matters?

    Fact is, Porsche makes the fattest margin on its sportscars. Great for the company, but what that means to buyers? In the case of the GT-R, they get more of your money for much less of performance. Exclusivity? 911s are everywhere.

    Another example is the Audi R8. It's Autocar's Best Driver Car and CAR's Performance Car of the Year. Alain Prost, Mark Webber praise it and Kimi Raikonnen had a hard time catching up with an F430.

    But they say it again : it's just an Audi, it's no RWD, etc etc.

    Nothing against Porsche, but with the arrival of GT-R (check the waiting lists for it), AUDI-Lambo, Aston Martin, and Ferrari's getting purer (with the F142), they can not offer the same old formula with the 911 and keep the Cayman below it.

    I have nothing against Porsche purists so no flaming please, gentlemen. Everyone can have an opinion, right

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    We'll it's fast, but still doesn't touch the Z's 7:42,9 ring time, or the GT3RS 7:43, and that's with the Z on run flats. I don't think the GT-R will replace anyone's exotic machinery, but like the Z06, it may pop up in the same garage.

    It's funny, now that the GT-R has hit the streets, the Z is no longer the red headed step child...

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Way, it isn't a problem to make a car fast by way of electronics (which is exactly what the GT-R does). The Japanese are highly skilled in making high-tech drivetrains (possibly the best in the world), but I wouldsn't call that driving pleasure.



    Indeed, the GT-R may be on its way to become not only the fugliest most tasteless car in the 500HP category, but also the most boring to drive. Pricewise, I think I'd rather have a Z06



    Ditto. The Z06 is the car I'd take any day over the GT-R.


    I think I'd take the GT-R. I just drove a 2008 Corvette Z51 (not Z06) and was very disappointed in the new and improved steering and gearbox

    It is sort of sad that Porsche's car in this price segment (Cayman S) has less than 300 hp though, while the others have about 500hp. It is however, much better to drive than a Corvette, imho, even if it is much slower in a straight line.

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    I'm thinking of either replacing or complimenting my Scab with the GTR.

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    Quote:
    shin said:
    WAY, I agree with you.

    LOL, when the gorgeous Aston V8 came out, with good enough performance to match its looks, many people say 911 is faster at the Ring by x seconds etc, etc.

    Now that the GTR is so fast at the Ring, many people say again that it's ugly, too much electronics, NO premium BADGE, etc

    Since when badge matters?

    Fact is, Porsche makes the fattest margin on its sportscars. Great for the company, but what that means to buyers? In the case of the GT-R, they get more of your money for much less of performance. Exclusivity? 911s are everywhere.

    Another example is the Audi R8. It's Autocar's Best Driver Car and CAR's Performance Car of the Year. Alain Prost, Mark Webber praise it and Kimi Raikonnen had a hard time catching up with an F430.

    But they say it again : it's just an Audi, it's no RWD, etc etc.

    Nothing against Porsche, but with the arrival of GT-R (check the waiting lists for it), AUDI-Lambo, Aston Martin, and Ferrari's getting purer (with the F142), they can not offer the same old formula with the 911 and keep the Cayman below it.

    I have nothing against Porsche purists so no flaming please, gentlemen. Everyone can have an opinion, right



    Your thoughts are mine.

    Is there any doubt that we all have our biases and when it comes to objectivity regarding cars, they display themselves for the world to see.

    Porsche has always been about performance/value. Now that there are other cars beating them at their own game, the intangibles are suddenly important.

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    Quote:
    nberry said:

    Porsche has always been about performance/value. Now that there are other cars beating them at their own game, the intangibles are suddenly important.


    This is the funniest thing, I have ever heard!
    Porsche has always been the best sports car AS A WHOLE PACKAGE! And that is why its price isn't comparable with Nissan, Corvette or whatever...!
    I know that will hurt you, but this is the truth since the middle of the 20th century

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Way, it isn't a problem to make a car fast by way of electronics (which is exactly what the GT-R does). The Japanese are highly skilled in making high-tech drivetrains (possibly the best in the world), but I wouldsn't call that driving pleasure.



    Indeed, the GT-R may be on its way to become not only the fugliest most tasteless car in the 500HP category, but also the most boring to drive. Pricewise, I think I'd rather have a Z06



    Ditto. The Z06 is the car I'd take any day over the GT-R.



    count me in!!! at least the Z06 is a real exotic here

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    Quote:
    Boyko23 said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:

    Porsche has always been about performance/value. Now that there are other cars beating them at their own game, the intangibles are suddenly important.


    This is the funniest thing, I have ever heard!
    Porsche has always been the best sports car AS A WHOLE PACKAGE! And that is why its price isn't comparable with Nissan, Corvette or whatever...!
    I know that will hurt you, but this is the truth since the middle of the 20th century




    Unfortunately, this is the type of blind loyalty that has Porsche marketing wringing its hands with joy.

    If you truly love Porsche then you should want them to step up to the plate with better performance vs the competition. Their current strategy is based on holding back their own lineup based on selling their most profitable car. Do you really want Porsche to become another BMW?

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    Brand, exclusivity, luxury is the thing peoples dreams are made of.

    Performance is passion that comes in handy to have avialable at times.

    I don't think anybody is concerned about this car stalling any glory from the high end brands.
    Although all the newspapers will try and raise the car to heavens just to please the crowds and anounce that THEIR new king has arrived

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    Quote:
    janus said:
    Brand, exclusivity, luxury is the thing peoples dreams are made of.

    /quote]

    True sports car enthusiasts who track their cars tend to value performance, quality and driving pleasure above brand and exclusivity.

    Many sports car buyers, however, are brand-driven wealthy consumers rather than true enthusiasts.

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    any accelerartion times?

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    Z06 is an exotic yes and i also thought about having one jeannot but you know what? I'm really bored about a sportcar that i cannot use everyday since it's not reliable enough

    Re: GT-R by von Saurma : 7:50

    I don't understand why anyone will buy a Z06 over this. Look at the interior quality difference!

     
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