Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency - Page1

Apr 26, 2005 6:10:10 PM

911Fanatic: Co-Pilot; Loc: Alpharetta, Georgia; Posts: 176, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 26, 2005

997 Oil Change Frequency

Hello, I recently purchased a black 05 Carrera S and absolutely love the car. I've been a passive reader of this forum for 2-3 months and have learned alot of useful information from all of your posts. I do have a question regarding oil change frequency. The manual says 20K miles or 2 years, whichever comes first. I'm uncomfortable with this timeframe and would prefer a more frequent timeframe (see it as cheap insurance). Does anyone have an opinion regarding this? Also, I was planning to change the oil myself, anything to be concerned about besides the obvious?

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Apr 26, 2005 6:31:08 PM

Trundle_GT3: Veteran; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 1016, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 30, 2003; Reply to: 911Fanatic

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

Can't hurt
Oil is the lifeblood of the engine!

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Apr 26, 2005 6:58:52 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Trundle_GT3

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

No, it can't hurt, but it won't really help anything either. Here's where your more traditional thinking is flawed. Porsche flat-sixes carry FAR MORE oil than typical cars. Capacity, with filter, is just shy of 13 quarts. That's a alot of oil to lubricate a tiny 3.8L engine. That means the oil cycle frequency on a 997 is far lower than most cars. Then, add to that the intrinsic precision of the motor (higher precision means less frictional wear, meaning a slower rate of metal deposits accumulating in the oil), and add to that the fact that you're running full-synthetic which has a slower rate of viscosity degeneration. Add it all up, and changing the oil every 20,000 miles in this 997 is not much different than changing the Pennzoil every 3,000 miles in your dad's '75 Chevy 1/2-ton pickup back in the 70's. In fact, that 20,000 mile 997 oil will probably be cleaner than my theorhetical Chevy truck oil when you pull the drain plug due to modern engines burning cleaner, more efficiently, with cleaner burning fuels. Porsche has also engineered the filtration accordingly for the recommended interval. So you can change your oil to make yourself feel good, but you won't be adding any lifespan to your engine, you'll just be filling the local recycler's barrels at a more rapid rate. Manufacturers always err on the side of safety and reduced warranty claims when they structure a service interval plan. Even at 20,000 miles, I'm certain that Porsche is playing it safe.

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Apr 26, 2005 8:39:05 PM

Brian E: Newbie; Loc: Indiana; Posts: 35, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 18, 2005; Reply to: 911Fanatic

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

I just had the oil changed in my 997S at 750 miles. 9 quarts of Mobil 1 0w-40 and a new filter cost $146.00. Its cheap insurance.
Make sure they dont overfill it. Mine was overfilled, even though I told them the manual states 9 quarts with a new filter, they put in 9.5 quarts.

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Apr 26, 2005 9:11:45 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Brian E

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

That's what I get for reading the internet for capacity specs, instead of the manual (my car's at home today)

. So I feel like an [censored]. Nonetheless, I still stand firmly behind all of my logic, it still applies. Excessive oil changes don't hurt, but why? "Insurance"? I've never heard of a Porsche, or even a Chevy, billowing blue smoke and being down on compression due to the owner following the suggested service schedule. Speaking of insurance, and risk....I find that each time I hand a car over to a dealer service department, I am exposing my car to EXTREME risk, due to carelessness, accident, human error, and overall boneheadedness that is epidemic and rampant in most service departments. Hell, they couldn't even get the right amount of oil in your car, and how hard is that???

I take my car to the dealer only when it is absolutely necessary. Otherwise, I don't let the monkeys within a mile of it, they usually screw up more related and unrelated things in the process, than what they fix. Change my oil, and cross-thread the plug, and scrape my lower front fascia on a parking curb, that's what my luck would be.

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Apr 26, 2005 9:19:11 PM

PS CA: Veteran; Loc: California , United States; Posts: 833, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 13, 2003; Reply to: Brian E

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

Quote:
Brian E said:
I just had the oil changed in my 997S at 750 miles. 9 quarts of Mobil 1 0w-40 and a new filter cost $146.00. Its cheap insurance.
Make sure they dont overfill it. Mine was overfilled, even though I told them the manual states 9 quarts with a new filter, they put in 9.5 quarts.

Actually here is what the manual says about oil capacity:

Engine Oil change quantity without oil filter approx. 8.5 quarts / 8.0 liters
Oil change quantity with oil filter approx. 8.7 quarts / 8.25 liters
Please observe the chapter "ENGINE OIL" on Page 157.

Phil

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Apr 26, 2005 9:50:53 PM

John SF 2005 997 S: Senior; Loc: San Francisco CA USA; Posts: 530, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2004; Reply to: PS CA

I bet PCNA is lying to us so the cars blow up and they have

more claims???

WHY do people chose to listen to nonsense logic instead of what the engingeers who designed and built the car tell them ???? When Porsche tells people to break in new cars until 2,000 miles "ohh they're just being over careful" when Porsche tells people to change the oil after 20,000 miles "OHH my god that's faaar too long between oil changes!!"

Do what you want but between internet chat rooms and Porsche engineers I'll choose Porsche engineers EVERY time !!!

HOWEVER - if you ARE going to change the oil yourself it is very easy. I did the oil changes on my 996 and it's simple. Order the Porsche parts and just follow the manual.

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Apr 27, 2005 12:04:48 AM

Dilinger: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Athens,Greece , Greece; Posts: 2034, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 23, 2004; Reply to: John SF 2005 997 S

Re: I bet PCNA is lying to us so the cars blow up and they have

i do the service on my own

haha

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Apr 27, 2005 12:42:50 AM

Brian E: Newbie; Loc: Indiana; Posts: 35, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 18, 2005; Reply to: PS CA

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

Quote:
PS CA said:
Quote:
Brian E said:
I just had the oil changed in my 997S at 750 miles. 9 quarts of Mobil 1 0w-40 and a new filter cost $146.00. Its cheap insurance.
Make sure they dont overfill it. Mine was overfilled, even though I told them the manual states 9 quarts with a new filter, they put in 9.5 quarts.

Actually here is what the manual says about oil capacity:

Engine Oil change quantity without oil filter approx. 8.5 quarts / 8.0 liters
Oil change quantity with oil filter approx. 8.7 quarts / 8.25 liters
Please observe the chapter "ENGINE OIL" on Page 157.

Phil

Actually here is what the manual says about oil capacity

Page 244 of my owners manual.

911 Carrera S: Oil change capacity with filter approx. 9 quarts/ 8.5 litres.

Apparently the S model takes approx. .3 qt. more oil than the base model.

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Apr 27, 2005 12:55:10 AM

PS CA: Veteran; Loc: California , United States; Posts: 833, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 13, 2003; Reply to: Brian E

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

Quote:
Brian E said:
Actually here is what the manual says about oil capacity

Page 244 of my owners manual.

911 Carrera S: Oil change capacity with filter approx. 9 quarts/ 8.5 litres.

Apparently the S model takes approx. .3 qt. more oil than the base model.

Sorry about that. Didn't realize I quoted from a non-S manual. Makes sense that the S takes a little more oil. As I bad as I feel for my mistake, you really have to wonder about a dealership that puts in a half quart too much during an oil change.

Phil

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Apr 27, 2005 1:09:57 AM

Brian E: Newbie; Loc: Indiana; Posts: 35, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 18, 2005; Reply to: PS CA

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

Sorry about that. Didn't realize I quoted from a non-S manual. Makes sense that the S takes a little more oil. As I bad as I feel for my mistake, you really have to wonder about a dealership that puts in a half quart too much during an oil change.

Phil

Phil the really sad part is that I e-mailed them a copy of page 244 from the owners manual. My 997 S was the first new model they had done.
I really feel that we are going to see a lot of cars overfilled with oil due to the lack of a conventional dipstick.
I really didnt know how much they overfilled my car because the digital gage was past the top arrow and maxed out. That is why I drained (2) quarts and then added new oil until it was full.
It turned out to be about 20 ounces overfilled.
I am not sure if it would have caused a problem if I would have left it alone, anyone know?

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Apr 27, 2005 2:01:47 AM

Holminator: Veteran; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 1041, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 28, 2004; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

Boss, best explanation about oil usage in the 911 I ever read. Thanks!

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Apr 27, 2005 5:31:25 AM

Nico997: Pilot; Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 392, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2004; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

Quote:
69bossnine said:
Excessive oil changes don't hurt, but why?

"

I got the same reply from my dealer when I asked the question. "Up to you, he said. You will always be welcomed if you want to change oil more frequently than advised and if you really want to make us richer. But there really is no need to come before the mileage suggested for the oil change, what you have to do is to control the oil level."

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Apr 27, 2005 12:47:50 PM

964C2: Expert; Loc: Dallas, TX , United States; Posts: 1825, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

The issue is water condensation in the oil if it sits for long periods of time and only driven infrequently. If that's the case you should change the oil every 6 months, not 2 years!!

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Apr 27, 2005 12:48:54 PM

911Fanatic: Co-Pilot; Loc: Alpharetta, Georgia; Posts: 176, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 26, 2005; Reply to: PS CA

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

Thanks for information and opinions. I'll probably change my own oil, always have and actually enjoy doing it. Haven't decided on frequency yet, but will probably error on the side of caution.

Another question re: oil, I've driven about 5K miles so far and have had to add about 1 quart of oil. I know the manual states you will periodically need to do this, does this seem excessive or is this normal? I know it depends on driving style, but I haven't been that aggressive.

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Apr 27, 2005 2:31:03 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: 964C2

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

Quote:
964C2 said:
The issue is water condensation in the oil if it sits for long periods of time and only driven infrequently. If that's the case you should change the oil every 6 months, not 2 years!!

That's only true if your car is stored in a non-climate-controlled environment. Otherwise, it's a non-factor in my experience. Condensation only exists when the environment the car is in causes it. We frequently send oil samples from our cars to a local test lab to check for metal deposits and contaminants. It's the best way to check the health of a motor, common practice with heavy diesel machinery and heavy trucks. Many times, we've sent samples of oil from cars that we have not run for 2-3 years. Never any water content, unless we've got a bad headgasket or cracked block. Since water sinks to the bottom of most oils, and our samples are taken from the drainplug, it's conclusive.

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Apr 27, 2005 2:37:05 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: 911Fanatic

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

Quote:
911Fanatic said:
Thanks for information and opinions. I'll probably change my own oil, always have and actually enjoy doing it. Haven't decided on frequency yet, but will probably error on the side of caution.

Another question re: oil, I've driven about 5K miles so far and have had to add about 1 quart of oil. I know the manual states you will periodically need to do this, does this seem excessive or is this normal? I know it depends on driving style, but I haven't been that aggressive.

According to my dealer's master tech, that is totally normal during the first 10,000 miles, and especially in the first 2,000 as the engine breaks-in. When I picked my car up new, he tossed two quarts of Mobile 1 into my trunk, and told me to keep a close eye on the level, that the car would likely use both quarts up in the 1st 10,000. Also, if I'm not mistaken, wouldn't all flat-cylinder motors be prone to slightly advance oil consumption due to the fact that you've get no leak-down from the cylinders when the engine is off? In a V-8, all residual oil on the cylinder walls finds it's way back to the oil pan. It probably amounts to minutia, but nevertheless...

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Apr 27, 2005 3:06:27 PM

iia: Pilot; Loc: Canada; Posts: 342, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 24, 2004; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

Quote:
69bossnine said:
Quote:
964C2 said:
The issue is water condensation in the oil if it sits for long periods of time and only driven infrequently. If that's the case you should change the oil every 6 months, not 2 years!!

That's only true if your car is stored in a non-climate-controlled environment.

You're right in the oil changing process and interval. Just wonder how many people store their porsche in a climate controlled environment?

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Apr 27, 2005 3:17:57 PM

krown05: Veteran; Loc: Florida, United States; Posts: 836, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 4, 2005; Reply to: PS CA

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

I just had my oil changed about 3 weeks ago because my oil meter on the car's computer was showing that it was under the limit. It won't hurt to get one, after all (at least for me), nothing is too good for my Porsche!

good luck,
Ray

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Apr 27, 2005 3:22:56 PM

964C2: Expert; Loc: Dallas, TX , United States; Posts: 1825, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

Yes, but if you drive the stored car without changing the oil the condensed water from the bottom of the sump, or oil tank will mix with the oil and affect it's lubrication properties....water is not a good lubricant for the bearings!!

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Apr 27, 2005 3:41:00 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: 964C2

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

Quote:
964C2 said:
Yes, but if you drive the stored car without changing the oil the condensed water from the bottom of the sump, or oil tank will mix with the oil and affect it's lubrication properties....water is not a good lubricant for the bearings!!

???? You missed my point. There IS NO WATER in our cars that have been stored for years. We've tested the oil, by taking samples from the bottom of the pan, right where you would find water if any existed at all. No condensation, no worries.

Obviously, water in your oil is not a good thing. But "assuming" you have water, and actually "having" water, are two totally different things. I have zero problems with water condensation in cars that sit for prolonged periods, and I have over 150 cars in our collection that comprise my "test bed" of data.

True, most people's garages are not fully climate controlled. BUT, typically you park your daily drivers in the family garage. If you have a special car, a "play" car, or vacation home car, that you drive so infrequently that it may sit for months-at-a-time without any use, you would have to be loony to not isolate that car into it's own special space that is dehumidified and climate-controlled. Otherwise, you're not just asking for condensation, you're asking for all sorts of deterioration/degradation, cosmetic and mechanical.

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Apr 27, 2005 9:58:15 PM

ArthurY: Co-Pilot; Loc: Los Angeles, CA; Posts: 153, Gallery; Registered on: May 26, 2004; Reply to: 911Fanatic

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

For an excellent extended discussion/test on the many factors and elements related to the use of Mobil 1 synthetic oil, see:

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/interval.html

and

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html

Check the many sidebars. Hopefully you'll learn more than enough to make an informed decision on whether and when to change the oil in what is, after all, YOUR Porsche.

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Apr 27, 2005 10:10:13 PM

jnx: Newbie; Loc: Illinois; Posts: 48, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 4, 2005; Reply to: 964C2

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

Actually you can get condensation in your oil if you just drive for short trips. If you take longer trips, the condensation is dried up due to oil temp being at normal temp for a longer period. If you want to change your oil more often, than 2 years, I would agree with that. I always change the oil in my Porsches right after break in, and then just 1 time per year.

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Apr 27, 2005 11:31:38 PM

Silver Bullet: Veteran; Loc: Canada; Posts: 1126, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 24, 2004; Reply to: jnx

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

I got an oil change after break-in at my Porsche dealer and they used Castrol Syntec. It says right on my car that Porsche recommends Mobil-1, yet my Porsche dealership doesn't use it. To top it off, they charge the usual ridiculous price that Porsche dealerships charge for an oil change. At that price, you'd think they'd use the manufacturer's recommended oil.

Should I be upset? Any word on Castrol Syntec vs Mobil-1? If both are 100% synthetic, is there any harm in mixing the 2 oils if say, I want to top up with Mobil-1 now that it contains Syntec?

-SB

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Apr 28, 2005 12:36:28 AM

jnx: Newbie; Loc: Illinois; Posts: 48, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 4, 2005; Reply to: Silver Bullet

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

I would not be happy about this, however I don't think it will hurt anything, as far as topping off, I would use Castrol. Next oil change, you may want to insist on Mobil 1

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Apr 28, 2005 1:35:18 PM

964C2: Expert; Loc: Dallas, TX , United States; Posts: 1825, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

.....I didn't miss your point, in your controlled and atypical environment you don't have water condensation in your cars, that's great. The reality is that cars that are driven infrequently and only for short intervals can and do get condensation in their oil...I've seen significant water being drained out of 911's that fit this profile.

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Apr 28, 2005 2:04:17 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: 964C2

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

Quote:
The reality is that cars that are driven infrequently and only for short intervals can and do get condensation in their oil

Like I said, if somebody is not driving their car often at all, and just leaves it sit in an uncontrolled garage, they're not being terribly lucent... So this is like arguing moot points...

As far as the Castrol/Mobil 1 thing, both are fine lubricants. Realize that the "Factory recommended oil" thing is more of a product placement/endorsement for-money type deal, than an actual and physical engineering/development relationship between the engineers and the oil company. Corvette does it, Porsche does it, and Mobil 1 PAYS for those endorsements/recommendations. Recognize that Porsche "suggests". It's not a requirement, and they don't say that your warranty is yanked if you use a different brand lube. It's not much different than Pepsi paying Brittney Spears to chug their product onstage, or Budweiser paying Little "E" to turn his car into a giant Bud can.

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Apr 28, 2005 10:19:15 PM

Silver Bullet: Veteran; Loc: Canada; Posts: 1126, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 24, 2004; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

Quote:
69bossnine said:
Quote:
As far as the Castrol/Mobil 1 thing, both are fine lubricants. Realize that the "Factory recommended oil" thing is more of a product placement/endorsement for-money type deal, than an actual and physical engineering/development relationship between the engineers and the oil company.

I appreciate that. It was more of a matter of principal. I take the car to the official Porsche dealer and I pay an "official Porsce price", but I don't get the Porsche recommended oil because my dealer is looking to make an extra buck on top of the many extra bucks they've already made.

It pissed me off.

-SB

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Apr 29, 2005 2:01:19 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Silver Bullet

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

No sweat, I understand completely. I find it more ODD than concerning, that a Porsche dealer wouldn't be using the product that is suggested (no matter how irrelevent) just out of principle. Maybe the master tech there had a bad Mobile 1 "experience", and is simply jaded for whatever silly or freakish reason it may be. But I agree, it's odd.

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Apr 29, 2005 2:53:44 PM

pic911s: Junior; Loc: canada; Posts: 145, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 2, 2005; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: 997 Oil Change Frequency

Silver bullet, I too am in Ontario and although I haven't received my P car yet (may build and I'm getting reaaaally anxious) I'm interested in the service you receive at your dealership. If you don't want to use names PM me.

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997 Oil Change Frequency

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I bet PCNA is lying to us so the cars blow up and they have

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