Crown

I think  Villeneuve is here in disguise.  🤨 that would explain it

JoeRockhead:

Carlos from Spain:

It's also interesting the temporal bias on how people judge the championship mostly on what happens on the last part of that very last race. If this Abu Dhabi had been the first race of the championship and they last race the Monaco or México race or any other where Max dominated, no one would be questioning him winning the championship.

The season stats show the same:

https://www.givemesport.com/1802358-max-verstappen-vs-lewis-hamilton-stats-suggest-f1-champion-deserved-title

 

Max started the season with the best car, he utilized it fully and pretty much on cruise control towards his 1st WDC until he had a mental lapse at Silverstone, an another a few races later at Monza. Had he not throw away those 30-40 points, he would be on autopilot towards the end.

Max in the Red Bull is dominant in the 2021 season. If not for Hamilton's skills and Mercedes finally figured out how to get the car setup in the correct window, it would have been a blow out season for Max.

In the end, both drivers deserves the title to start with, but for different reasons. Max performed beautifully all season, he in his Red Bull is the most consistent top performer. It will only be fitting for him to win.

Hamilton also deserves the title because of his fight back on the last part of the season, he found another gear to compete. Mercedes strategy also helped with introduction of new engines as those don't need to last 1/3 of a season so their output can be tuned for more power. He also lead most of the last race and on his way to a commanding victory before luck intervened. 

As it stands, either driver would have been a deserving champion but there can only be one each season. As the saying goes, the deserving one won. 

Leawood911:

I think  Villeneuve is here in disguise.  🤨 that would explain it

LOL

Nah, he is too busy lobbying for a WEC ride

He had wanted the true triple crown. F1 title, Indy title and Le Mans title. That last one is the only one he is missing but seems like his chances are gone. 

2008 was his best chance, he was 2 hours away from the title until an unfortunate incident by his teammate that drops them to 2nd. 

Gilles Villeneuve was a hero for many (including Enzo Ferrari) in F1. In spite of only 6 wins he is a legend.

When Jacques Villeneuve appeared in F1 I had a partiality towards him because of his father. Jacques was very successful in USA racing (CART and Indy500) but also managed a championship in F1, whereas others who were also big in America like Zanardi, Andretti (son) and Bourdais were totally obscured in the technicality and variability of F1 driving.. So, I think Jacques is on the same level as Mario Andretti, in this respect.

Moreover, Jacques with his successful driving in his rookie year 1996 and particularly in his championship year 1997, managed to mentally destabilize Michael Schumacher, the top talent at the time driving for legendary Ferrari, and made the German do that desperate and unsporting move which disgraced him and tarnished his name forever.

I have a lot of respect for Jacques Villeneuve

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"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-mercedes-car-upgrade-tokens/6935169/

Full story on how Mercedes didn't spend their developmental tokens.

Short version: They were going to change the front wing area to improve front end grip, but with the cut floor and changes to the barge board area, they lost more overall down force compared to the high rake car, aka Red Bulls. So it doesn't make sense for them to increase the front end grip even more and make the tail even happier. And Hamilton prefers a more stable rear after all. They would much rather improve the car balance instead. 

Whoopsy:

kudryavchik:

Whoopsy:

kudryavchik:

Guys, to be fair you are all very biased. When you are biased, the analysis doesnt work. I am not the Max fan, but most LH supporters here interpret Max and LH behavior in a totally opposing manner. Example: shit on vent when Max didnt come on the podium and support lh and toto not to be represented on gala. What merc, toto and lh are doing now with their press releases is a total mess. Merc is damaging its reputation now heavily. FIA is full of corruption, but now it is right. There must be some heavy sanctions against sir cry ham and actor toto.

 

Funny how you put it that way.

All season long Max had been getting away with stuff on track. So the one time he didn't and got penalized at Saudi GP he got grumpy and walk away from the podium is being compared to Hamilton's absence?

In Saudi Max has been putting his foot wrong all race long, it was all his fault. In Abu Dhabi Hamilton didn't put a foot wrong, he was robbed blind by Masi when Masi didn't follow proper procedure, the anger and disappointment are completely different. 

Toto isn't required to be there, Hamilton was. Hamilton missed the gala knowing something will happened and he doesn't care as nothing the FIA can dare dishes out he can't take. He felt like he doesn't have to respect an organization that doesn't respect their own rules. 

As for you hope of 'heavy' sanction, that's out the window. The new FIA President alreayd said on record if there is one coming, it will be financial instead of sporting. And if Hamilton decided to just hang it up, it will also be a moot point as Hamilton won't even have to pay the fine. ATM, he is having the last laugh.

By the rulebook, Masi do have full control on when to send out the safety car and when to bring it back, that point isn't in dispute right now. But safety car have it's own section in the rulebook on how it is being send out and how it can come in after the Race Director request the car to be brought in, it's a detail step by step process, which Masi 'forgot' to follow. 

Had he stopped the race early and do a red flag restart with a few laps shootout finish, no one on earth would have any problem with whoever wins the GP, be it Hamilton, Max or Sainz. That would have been fair racing and if Max came out on top, he would have his crown and glory for winning his first F1. But because of Masi skipping some steps, Max only got the crown, he doesn't have the glory that came with it as the race and the season will be forever marked with as asterisk for the controversial finish. FIA didn't help itself by not releasing a full explanation of their own fuck up, and instead blame the fans, the drivers, the teams, and the press for misunderstanding. 

 

 

Nobody was robbed, its a Merc mistake not to change the tyres. Latifi crashed, that happens.

On the red flag I tend to agree with you. Red flag should have been put immediately. However there will be always the matter for discussion. Its the humans work, humans can make mistakes or react later then needed. Easy to criticise. I remember well the amount of criticism on Pirro. Whiting also made lots of mistakes, so..

On Max championship - the stats live, not the details. Every champion had its controversies. What I know for fact, Ham will never be on the same level as MSC, Senna, Prost or Villeneuve. The amount of cups doesnt matter. 
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sportcars-history.com

 

 

You do know I know the dude and he and I are buddies right?

Even I wouldn't put him in the same category 

You really don't know much about racing do you?

Dear Whoopsy, I understand that due to the fact you are buddy to Jacques, you know only him, but I have meant other Villeneuve. Jacques was also a nice pilot, being competitive in CART and F1 is cool. There are not so many pilots being the CART and F1 champ.

P.s. sorry, I was not clear enough in my post

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sportcars-history.com

Ah you mean his dad, Gilles

That would be up for debate on how good he actually is/will be/should be as he was killed while racing. 

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Gilles was a spectacular racer at a time when bravado and real risk were high on the F1 supporters' priorities. Nowadays, everything is clinical, orderly and done correctly  even in motorsport. and people like Gilles could be classified as crazy madmen.

Gilles could have won the championship in 1979, if he didn't obey the #1 status of the mediocre Jody Scheckter as a sign of respect for Enzo Ferrari.

In 1982 Gilles' rivalry with Didier Pironi which escalated into antipathy brought both racers down, causing one to die and the other to be crippled a few races later. Following Villeneuve's death, Pironi crashed severely in the German GP whilst driving  under stress and in a bad state of mind partly due to him being indirectly blamed for Gilles' death.

Gilles is a legend for many Ferrari fans and for more.

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"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

Gilles had a very special driving style (snowmobile technique), very efficient with those cars (312 t4-t6 and 126 ck). 

There were very very nice pilots, for me Rosemeyer, Nuvolari, Stuck senior (hill climb), Clark, Hulme and especially Ickx. Of course it is always difficult to compare, sport has changed (and was changing during its history). Silberpfeilen monsters from 34-39 are a total different cars to dfv 3 liter era. The last ones are totally different to 1st turbo era and so on. The differences are so drastic that you can consider it different type of sport. However, the personality is personality and the amount of cups is not so important. F.e. in sportcars racing, if had to choose between Ickx and Christensen, I would choose Ickx. And above them all - Pedro Rodriguez and possibly Mark Donohue

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sportcars-history.com

kudryavchik:

Gilles had a very special driving style (snowmobile technique), very efficient with those cars (312 t4-t6 and 126 ck). 

There were very very nice pilots, for me Rosemeyer, Nuvolari, Stuck senior (hill climb), Clark, Hulme and especially Ickx. Of course it is always difficult to compare, sport has changed (and was changing during its history). Silberpfeilen monsters from 34-39 are a total different cars to dfv 3 liter era. The last ones are totally different to 1st turbo era and so on. The differences are so drastic that you can consider it different type of sport. However, the personality is personality and the amount of cups is not so important. F.e. in sportcars racing, if had to choose between Ickx and Christensen, I would choose Ickx. And above them all - Pedro Rodriguez and possibly Mark Donohue

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sportcars-history.com

 

+1

P.S. I would add Stefan Bellof to that list. He never had the chance to show his worth in F1, but he was outrageously good in Group C

Bellof was impeccable! In terms of pure speed, possibly the fastest of all. But very crazy. To make the move in Eau Rouge he made against Ickx in 1985 was self killing. However in 1970 on the start of 1000 km spa Rodriguez and Siffert could successfully hold the line

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sportcars-history.com

Whoopsy:

Ah you mean his dad, Gilles

That would be up for debate on how good he actually is/will be/should be as he was killed while racing. 

So was Senna. Any doubts there? 

kudryavchik:

Bellof was impeccable! In terms of pure speed, possibly the fastest of all. But very crazy. To make the move in Eau Rouge he made against Ickx in 1985 was self killing. However in 1970 on the start of 1000 km spa Rodriguez and Siffert could successfully hold the line

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sportcars-history.com

 

Yes, he was a little crazy. He was young and very hungry ( a little like Max), but his testicular fortitude made him a pleasure to watch. I love pure racers!

Spyderidol:

kudryavchik:

Bellof was impeccable! In terms of pure speed, possibly the fastest of all. But very crazy. To make the move in Eau Rouge he made against Ickx in 1985 was self killing. However in 1970 on the start of 1000 km spa Rodriguez and Siffert could successfully hold the line

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sportcars-history.com

 

Yes, he was a little crazy. He was young and very hungry ( a little like Max), but his testicular fortitude made him a pleasure to watch. I love pure racers!

Yes, he was amazing, no doubt there. His pace on nurburgring 1983 during the race (before he crashed) showed everything

P.s. I dont know how it is even possible to compare ham to these guys. Same goes to vet, same as ham. They should race in gp vatikan with one foot fetishist living there.
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sportcars-history.com

JoeRockhead:

Whoopsy:

Ah you mean his dad, Gilles

That would be up for debate on how good he actually is/will be/should be as he was killed while racing. 

So was Senna. Any doubts there? 

Rosemeyer, von Trips, Siffert, Rodriguez, Rindt, Clark, Bellof too. 

sportcars-history.com

Spyderidol:

Yes, he was a little crazy. He was young and very hungry ( a little like Max), but his testicular fortitude made him a pleasure to watch. I love pure racers!

Hahaha "Testicular Fortitude"... gotta love that one!

Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys

Have made some measurements on 919 evo, wec and f1 cars. Maybe interesting for someone. Note: F1 measurements made mostly on the data from q2 and q3 sessions)

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sportcars-history.com

Joost:

Spyderidol:

Yes, he was a little crazy. He was young and very hungry ( a little like Max), but his testicular fortitude made him a pleasure to watch. I love pure racers!

Hahaha "Testicular Fortitude"... gotta love that one!

Thank you. Interesting.

JoeRockhead:

Whoopsy:

Ah you mean his dad, Gilles

That would be up for debate on how good he actually is/will be/should be as he was killed while racing. 

So was Senna. Any doubts there? 

And Senna was already a multi WDC before he was killed.

Joost:

Spyderidol:

Yes, he was a little crazy. He was young and very hungry ( a little like Max), but his testicular fortitude made him a pleasure to watch. I love pure racers!

Hahaha "Testicular Fortitude"... gotta love that one!

That whole phrase sounded like a line from a vintage porn review 

James Hunt F1 champion 1976... 

Video Link 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHqEsZgku-k

Video Link 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-IaYXJrDjo

👍

sportcars-history.com

kudryavchik:

Italo:

kudryavchik:

thuggy:

You know what’s funny… not even Horner, Marko or Newey are pushing your narrative that Mercedes’ made a mistake… they are saying that Max deserved it on balance and they “got lucky”. 

And? Yes it was luck that Latifi crashed, VER made a pit and Ham not. Funny thuggy is to search the complaints for VER victory. Result is done, Max champ, there is no fight after the fight. Get over it.

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sportcars-history.com

 

@could-dry dark-stick or whatever you call yourself, you need to face the reality that Hamilton has earned the right to be classified in the same league as the likes of Schum, Prost, Senna and the other greats of F1. I'm sure Ham will be back next year and hopefully all drivers will be on the same playing field in terms of car performance, then you'll see why he is classed amongst the best.

This season is done and dusted, quite unfortunate the way it ended but that's life, let's now focus on the season to come.

Sorry Italo, your opinion is not interesting to me. I hope you are not angry that I haven't wasted my time to read your message, only to respond

Obviously you don't read that's why you come up with these ridiculous statements.

Very famous footage in Russia made by our tv team long time ago. Considered as classics among russian f1 fan base

https://youtu.be/2HBqoeChm04

sportcars-history.com

Italo:

kudryavchik:

Italo:

kudryavchik:

thuggy:

You know what’s funny… not even Horner, Marko or Newey are pushing your narrative that Mercedes’ made a mistake… they are saying that Max deserved it on balance and they “got lucky”. 

And? Yes it was luck that Latifi crashed, VER made a pit and Ham not. Funny thuggy is to search the complaints for VER victory. Result is done, Max champ, there is no fight after the fight. Get over it.

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sportcars-history.com

 

@could-dry dark-stick or whatever you call yourself, you need to face the reality that Hamilton has earned the right to be classified in the same league as the likes of Schum, Prost, Senna and the other greats of F1. I'm sure Ham will be back next year and hopefully all drivers will be on the same playing field in terms of car performance, then you'll see why he is classed amongst the best.

This season is done and dusted, quite unfortunate the way it ended but that's life, let's now focus on the season to come.

Sorry Italo, your opinion is not interesting to me. I hope you are not angry that I haven't wasted my time to read your message, only to respond

Obviously you don't read that's why you come up with these ridiculous statements.

Dear Italo, first I dont read personally disrespectful and aggressive messages, I dont waste a time on it. Second, I dont like talking with fans, its a waste of time too. I dont need to read it, my knowledge in motorsport is known in my community (simply yesterday my team won the motorsport history competition among 40 teams). If you want to communicate, I will with the great pleasure without the offensive notes, otherwise sorry.

For me Ham, as Vet nowhere near to some previous champs I have listed before. Both are great, however... there are some points should be noted (these are important for me)

1. I dont like when sport, especially the motorsport that I love is used as a scene for politics (political position doesnt matter)

2. Currently F1 consists of factory teams and satellites that use the engine from top dogs (manufacturers) making the customers dependable from manufacturers - as from engineering point of view and competition wise. No matter how great are the engineers, fe in Alfa (Sauber), they will never be able to compete with Ferrari. History has known some cases when not so rich customers were able to fight with top teams. Man, Ferrari made its history that way before collab with FIAT

3. Racing, especially F1 became too sterile, with lots of protocols. Its simply dilute the personality attractiveness. Simply look on how real man raced before, even in MSC era. In recent history I love 919 evo record attempts. Its more marketing, but its was crazy. Simply wow.

sportcars-history.com

kudryavchik:

Italo:

kudryavchik:

Italo:

kudryavchik:

thuggy:

You know what’s funny… not even Horner, Marko or Newey are pushing your narrative that Mercedes’ made a mistake… they are saying that Max deserved it on balance and they “got lucky”. 

And? Yes it was luck that Latifi crashed, VER made a pit and Ham not. Funny thuggy is to search the complaints for VER victory. Result is done, Max champ, there is no fight after the fight. Get over it.

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sportcars-history.com

 

@could-dry dark-stick or whatever you call yourself, you need to face the reality that Hamilton has earned the right to be classified in the same league as the likes of Schum, Prost, Senna and the other greats of F1. I'm sure Ham will be back next year and hopefully all drivers will be on the same playing field in terms of car performance, then you'll see why he is classed amongst the best.

This season is done and dusted, quite unfortunate the way it ended but that's life, let's now focus on the season to come.

Sorry Italo, your opinion is not interesting to me. I hope you are not angry that I haven't wasted my time to read your message, only to respond

Obviously you don't read that's why you come up with these ridiculous statements.

Dear Italo, first I dont read personally disrespectful and aggressive messages, I dont waste a time on it. Second, I dont like talking with fans, its a waste of time too. I dont need to read it, my knowledge in motorsport is known in my community (simply yesterday my team won the motorsport history competition among 40 teams). If you want to communicate, I will with the great pleasure without the offensive notes, otherwise sorry.

For me Ham, as Vet nowhere near to some previous champs I have listed before. Both are great, however... there are some points should be noted (these are important for me)

1. I dont like when sport, especially the motorsport that I love is used as a scene for politics (political position doesnt matter)

2. Currently F1 consists of factory teams and satellites that use the engine from top dogs (manufacturers) making the customers dependable from manufacturers - as from engineering point of view and competition wise. No matter how great are the engineers, fe in Alfa (Sauber), they will never be able to compete with Ferrari. History has known some cases when not so rich customers were able to fight with top teams. Man, Ferrari made its history that way before collab with FIAT

3. Racing, especially F1 became too sterile, with lots of protocols. Its simply dilute the personality attractiveness. Simply look on how real man raced before, even in MSC era. In recent history I love 919 evo record attempts. Its more marketing, but its was crazy. Simply wow.

blah blah blah, you sure read this one 

 sorry, I am bad in english humor. Mr. Bean?

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sportcars-history.com

Russian motorsport writes that Ham has cancelled subscription to all instagram accounts. I wonder, is everything fine with the guy and worry for the great 7 times champ that deleted his subs in insta 

sportcars-history.com