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Re: Stradale Impressions
Quote:
drbeck said:
I reviewed my stat sheet from FX and remembered the biggest thing we did was actually change the caster from stock which is 6 degrees to 5 and 1/2. This makes the car much less twitchy. For toe we ran .4mm per side for a total of .8 and I'm sorry I was wrong on the camber, it was 1 and 1/2 front and 2 in the rear. The guys at FX have set up quite a few challenge cars so they know what they are doing. We didi not lose any high speed stability either. We spent a great deal of time above 150mph and the car was rock solid.
Thank you for the info
I will talk to my Ferrari dealer to see if I can get those specs dailed into my Stradale.I track my car about 6 times a year and I found the backend of the car wanting to come around more then I liked...I front end would almost never understeer...the front just tracked where I pointed the car. In most corners the car would track or drift nicely but when I go in too hot the rear wanted to come out too easily... but, I just love the way my car drives in 98% of my road use Did you lower the car?
Regarding noise...without the cats...is the car livable on the highway for short trips?
Re: Stradale Impressions
Quote:tdf i agree with fanch. i run a GT3 and a 360 round the same track and i am 8 seconds faster in my GT3 and i am going flat out in both.the 360 rolls more , has less grunt , needs to brake earlier , weighs more. don't get me wrong i am a huge ferrari fan but the cars are two different beasts and can't be compared.
tdf360 said:Quote:
Fanch said:
TDF,
Please don't feel offended, of course I know it's all about the driver on the track. But I've also driven the 360 on open roads extensively and although is was a while ago, the steering is vague, the F1 gearbox far from perfect and most of all, the brakes are way underdimensioned (spelling?).
So please do not call me ignorant, I would be if I was quoting from mag, but I have actually been privileged to drive the two models to their limits. Our opinions may differ, and that's cool! That's what this forum is all about!
The Stradale answers all these criticism and so much more.
It's like GT3RS compared to 996 but the gap is 10 times bigger, it really is a different car.
I respect 100% Ferrari's approach to the "no compromise" aspect of the car.
It feels like a race car inside, very nice!
As for straight line speed with the Modena, what can I say, it's its driver who came to tell us that. I'm not lying, I love Ferrari.
Sorry about the "ignorant" comment. We clearly disagree about the 360, especially the steering (I think it is superb, especially with RA-1s installed) and I have had no brake issues at the track since I installed Ate fluid and DS2500 pads.
Gary
rock on
Re: Stradale Impressions
Quote:
scud said:
tdf i agree with fanch. i run a GT3 and a 360 round the same track and i am 8 seconds faster in my GT3 and i am going flat out in both.the 360 rolls more , has less grunt , needs to brake earlier , weighs more. don't get me wrong i am a huge ferrari fan but the cars are two different beasts and can't be compared.
rock on
I feel like we must have two different versions of the same car. My son and I drove/rode in a GT3 on R-compound tires at Buttonwillow the same day we had my Modena there. The GT3 rolled at least as much, maybe more, and had more pitching motions in the vertical axis. Even though the 360 was on streets, the lap times were only 2-3 seconds apart. I found the 360 to be more responsive and fun on the track than the GT3 and with R tires I'm confident the lap times would be very similar with the same driver. And the weight of the two cars is within 50 lbs or so, with the 360 being the LIGHTER car, according to R&T and factory manuals.
Gary
Re: Stradale Impressions
I hate to be a magazine whore, but in every test we've seen the GT3 ha proved to be a match for the Stradale in terms of pure track pace.
The 360 doesn't seem to be competitive with either and the GT3 RS, is a step above. Keep in mind this is pure track pace and has nothing to do with roads or overall fun.
The 360 doesn't seem to be competitive with either and the GT3 RS, is a step above. Keep in mind this is pure track pace and has nothing to do with roads or overall fun.
Re: Stradale Impressions
Quote:
HoboPie said:
I hate to be a magazine whore, but in every test we've seen the GT3 ha proved to be a match for the Stradale in terms of pure track pace.
The 360 doesn't seem to be competitive with either and the GT3 RS, is a step above. Keep in mind this is pure track pace and has nothing to do with roads or overall fun.
I know, but that hasn't been my experience at the track. And there is no way there is 8 sec/lap difference between a GT3 (or a Stradale) and a Modena. I guess it really comes down to the question of how much difference there is between a Modena and a Stradale at the track (given equal rubber) and I don't know the answer to that...but I will be at Thunderhill on 5/13 with Trackmasters, hope some Stradales and GT3s show up.
Gary
Re: Stradale Impressions
Quote:i had my 360 and GT3 weighed at my local track and the GT3 was 1375kg and the 360 was 1495kg both had a half tank of fuel. thats a diffrence of 120kg or in your terms 264 pounds. thats a massive difference. please explain your 50 pound theory and the 360 being lighter.
tdf360 said:Quote:
scud said:
tdf i agree with fanch. i run a GT3 and a 360 round the same track and i am 8 seconds faster in my GT3 and i am going flat out in both.the 360 rolls more , has less grunt , needs to brake earlier , weighs more. don't get me wrong i am a huge ferrari fan but the cars are two different beasts and can't be compared.
rock on
I feel like we must have two different versions of the same car. My son and I drove/rode in a GT3 on R-compound tires at Buttonwillow the same day we had my Modena there. The GT3 rolled at least as much, maybe more, and had more pitching motions in the vertical axis. Even though the 360 was on streets, the lap times were only 2-3 seconds apart. I found the 360 to be more responsive and fun on the track than the GT3 and with R tires I'm confident the lap times would be very similar with the same driver. And the weight of the two cars is within 50 lbs or so, with the 360 being the LIGHTER car, according to R&T and factory manuals.
Gary
rock on
Re: Stradale Impressions
Quote:
scud said:
i had my 360 and GT3 weighed at my local track and the GT3 was 1375kg and the 360 was 1495kg both had a half tank of fuel. thats a diffrence of 120kg or in your terms 264 pounds. thats a massive difference. please explain your 50 pound theory and the 360 being lighter.
rock on
I was going by Road & Track and owner's manual figures. I assumed R&T weighed the cars they tested, and that the manual was reasonably close. Guess I'll have to get out and weigh my car.
Gary
Re: Stradale Impressions
Quote:
scud said:Quote:i had my 360 and GT3 weighed at my local track and the GT3 was 1375kg and the 360 was 1495kg both had a half tank of fuel. thats a diffrence of 120kg or in your terms 264 pounds. thats a massive difference. please explain your 50 pound theory and the 360 being lighter.
tdf360 said:Quote:
scud said:
tdf i agree with fanch. i run a GT3 and a 360 round the same track and i am 8 seconds faster in my GT3 and i am going flat out in both.the 360 rolls more , has less grunt , needs to brake earlier , weighs more. don't get me wrong i am a huge ferrari fan but the cars are two different beasts and can't be compared.
rock on
I feel like we must have two different versions of the same car. My son and I drove/rode in a GT3 on R-compound tires at Buttonwillow the same day we had my Modena there. The GT3 rolled at least as much, maybe more, and had more pitching motions in the vertical axis. Even though the 360 was on streets, the lap times were only 2-3 seconds apart. I found the 360 to be more responsive and fun on the track than the GT3 and with R tires I'm confident the lap times would be very similar with the same driver. And the weight of the two cars is within 50 lbs or so, with the 360 being the LIGHTER car, according to R&T and factory manuals.
Gary
rock on
this is a lot of the reason a 360 is no match for a GT3 and a stradale is pretty much only on par with one. then again, put the stradale's corsas on the GT3 and see what happens vs. a stradale.
Re: Stradale Impressions
this is a lot of the reason a 360 is no match for a GT3 and a stradale is pretty much only on par with one. then again, put the stradale's corsas on the GT3 and see what happens vs. a stradale.
The GT3's Michelins have a lower wear rating than the CS specific Corsas. Very soft "street" tire vs. hard "track" tire = not much between them. Michelin Pilot Sport Cups or Pirelli Corsas (not CS spec) are much faster than either one.
Apr 2, 2005 11:44:29 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: Stradale Impressions
Thread wear ratings are brand specific, so they are only comparable between models of the same brand, but not between models of different brands since each has their own different scale.
Also CS's Corsa System are R-compund "semi-slick"tires (not as good as the Michelins's R-compound Cups but still R-compound class), the GT3's Michelins are just regular street tires, PS2's to be exact.
Also CS's Corsa System are R-compund "semi-slick"tires (not as good as the Michelins's R-compound Cups but still R-compound class), the GT3's Michelins are just regular street tires, PS2's to be exact.
Re: Stradale Impressions
EVO Magazine has a great article in September 2003's issue
It's 11 pages here's the last few paragraphs:
"That said, the Porsche can't match the Ferrari front-end's rate of response, 911s can often feel reluctant to turn in, requiring a bit of forearm shove to counter a natural tendency towards steady-state understeer, but it feels more pronounced in the GT3. You simply don't get the sense that the outside front tyre is fully hooked up, which never does much for your confidence, especially through high-speed corners. Without trying a Pirelli-shod GT3 it's hard to point the finger at the Michelins fitted to our test car, but experience in the current generation Carrera suggests the Italian rubber might sharpen things up.
I've got the 911 tucked into the 360's wake, but it's hard work to stay in touch. Once the road opens out, the excess weight and comparative lack of power become glaringly apparent, and on the the return dash back along the open, looping 'straight' I find myself cursing the GT3's lack of grunt. It's an absurd complaint in a car capable of hitting 100mph in just 9.4sec, but the sight of a bright red Ferrari hollering off into the distance tends to give you a slightly warped perspective of what fast really is.
Ultimately the 360's lighter build, coupled with the fact that it's motor has the GT3's moves covered even through the mid-range, means that when it rams home its advantage at the top end the Porsche is left struggling for breath.
Perhaps because of the Ferrari's straight-line advantage, I find myself trying harder in the tight corners, driving around the front-end's initial reluctance and exploiting the 911's uniquely adjustable balance. It's a rewaring, absorbing process getting the rear weight bias working to your advantage, and far from the perilous tightrope walk you might imagine it to be, the GT3 remains predictable and exploitable enough to power the tail out of line as the corner opens out. It certainly feels less edgy than the Stradale, which isn't a car that encourages a fast-and-loose cornering style, at least on the road.
As we exit the final hairpin and crest the rise of the Stelvio's summit I know the Porsche has been outgunned, but the GT3's still got right under my skin. I'm not in the quivering, adrenalin-saturated state I was on emerging from the 360, a car that when pushed to extremes throws so much at you it's not a case of savouring the experience (as it is in the GT3) but simply surviving the savage sensory double whammy of volume and velocity. Choosing between them is painful, but if your after the raw, nefarious thrills of a racecar on the road the Stradale gets the nod.
But this isn't the end of the story, for Stuttgart is poised to unleash an even more potent weapon from it's armoury, the GT3 RS. Ferrari might have won the battle, but the war is set to rage on. To be continued....."
If you love sports car's get a subscription to EVO. It isn't cheap but has the greatest articles and pic.s out there.
It's 11 pages here's the last few paragraphs:
"That said, the Porsche can't match the Ferrari front-end's rate of response, 911s can often feel reluctant to turn in, requiring a bit of forearm shove to counter a natural tendency towards steady-state understeer, but it feels more pronounced in the GT3. You simply don't get the sense that the outside front tyre is fully hooked up, which never does much for your confidence, especially through high-speed corners. Without trying a Pirelli-shod GT3 it's hard to point the finger at the Michelins fitted to our test car, but experience in the current generation Carrera suggests the Italian rubber might sharpen things up.
I've got the 911 tucked into the 360's wake, but it's hard work to stay in touch. Once the road opens out, the excess weight and comparative lack of power become glaringly apparent, and on the the return dash back along the open, looping 'straight' I find myself cursing the GT3's lack of grunt. It's an absurd complaint in a car capable of hitting 100mph in just 9.4sec, but the sight of a bright red Ferrari hollering off into the distance tends to give you a slightly warped perspective of what fast really is.
Ultimately the 360's lighter build, coupled with the fact that it's motor has the GT3's moves covered even through the mid-range, means that when it rams home its advantage at the top end the Porsche is left struggling for breath.
Perhaps because of the Ferrari's straight-line advantage, I find myself trying harder in the tight corners, driving around the front-end's initial reluctance and exploiting the 911's uniquely adjustable balance. It's a rewaring, absorbing process getting the rear weight bias working to your advantage, and far from the perilous tightrope walk you might imagine it to be, the GT3 remains predictable and exploitable enough to power the tail out of line as the corner opens out. It certainly feels less edgy than the Stradale, which isn't a car that encourages a fast-and-loose cornering style, at least on the road.
As we exit the final hairpin and crest the rise of the Stelvio's summit I know the Porsche has been outgunned, but the GT3's still got right under my skin. I'm not in the quivering, adrenalin-saturated state I was on emerging from the 360, a car that when pushed to extremes throws so much at you it's not a case of savouring the experience (as it is in the GT3) but simply surviving the savage sensory double whammy of volume and velocity. Choosing between them is painful, but if your after the raw, nefarious thrills of a racecar on the road the Stradale gets the nod.
But this isn't the end of the story, for Stuttgart is poised to unleash an even more potent weapon from it's armoury, the GT3 RS. Ferrari might have won the battle, but the war is set to rage on. To be continued....."
If you love sports car's get a subscription to EVO. It isn't cheap but has the greatest articles and pic.s out there.
Re: Stradale Impressions
Quote:
Stradale said:
EVO Magazine has a great article in September 2003's issue
It's 11 pages here's the last few paragraphs:
"That said, the Porsche can't match the Ferrari front-end's rate of response, 911s can often feel reluctant to turn in, requiring a bit of forearm shove to counter a natural tendency towards steady-state understeer, but it feels more pronounced in the GT3. You simply don't get the sense that the outside front tyre is fully hooked up, which never does much for your confidence, especially through high-speed corners. Without trying a Pirelli-shod GT3 it's hard to point the finger at the Michelins fitted to our test car, but experience in the current generation Carrera suggests the Italian rubber might sharpen things up.
I've got the 911 tucked into the 360's wake, but it's hard work to stay in touch. Once the road opens out, the excess weight and comparative lack of power become glaringly apparent, and on the the return dash back along the open, looping 'straight' I find myself cursing the GT3's lack of grunt. It's an absurd complaint in a car capable of hitting 100mph in just 9.4sec, but the sight of a bright red Ferrari hollering off into the distance tends to give you a slightly warped perspective of what fast really is.
Ultimately the 360's lighter build, coupled with the fact that it's motor has the GT3's moves covered even through the mid-range, means that when it rams home its advantage at the top end the Porsche is left struggling for breath.
Perhaps because of the Ferrari's straight-line advantage, I find myself trying harder in the tight corners, driving around the front-end's initial reluctance and exploiting the 911's uniquely adjustable balance. It's a rewaring, absorbing process getting the rear weight bias working to your advantage, and far from the perilous tightrope walk you might imagine it to be, the GT3 remains predictable and exploitable enough to power the tail out of line as the corner opens out. It certainly feels less edgy than the Stradale, which isn't a car that encourages a fast-and-loose cornering style, at least on the road.
As we exit the final hairpin and crest the rise of the Stelvio's summit I know the Porsche has been outgunned, but the GT3's still got right under my skin. I'm not in the quivering, adrenalin-saturated state I was on emerging from the 360, a car that when pushed to extremes throws so much at you it's not a case of savouring the experience (as it is in the GT3) but simply surviving the savage sensory double whammy of volume and velocity. Choosing between them is painful, but if your after the raw, nefarious thrills of a racecar on the road the Stradale gets the nod.
But this isn't the end of the story, for Stuttgart is poised to unleash an even more potent weapon from it's armoury, the GT3 RS. Ferrari might have won the battle, but the war is set to rage on. To be continued....."
from a handling perspective the strad has its hands full with the 05 boxster s, you better go get one. not equivalent power, but certainly equivalent handling.
btw,
it's funny to drive a boxster S with an honest speedo and realise the psychological effect F gets "wow i'm going so fast so effortlessly" with their speedo's that read high about 10 mph [my stradale vs my box S]. part of the legende is FAKE.
Re: Stradale Impressions
Quote:
watt said:Quote:
Stradale said:
EVO Magazine has a great article in September 2003's issue
It's 11 pages here's the last few paragraphs:
"That said, the Porsche can't match the Ferrari front-end's rate of response, 911s can often feel reluctant to turn in, requiring a bit of forearm shove to counter a natural tendency towards steady-state understeer, but it feels more pronounced in the GT3. You simply don't get the sense that the outside front tyre is fully hooked up, which never does much for your confidence, especially through high-speed corners. Without trying a Pirelli-shod GT3 it's hard to point the finger at the Michelins fitted to our test car, but experience in the current generation Carrera suggests the Italian rubber might sharpen things up.
I've got the 911 tucked into the 360's wake, but it's hard work to stay in touch. Once the road opens out, the excess weight and comparative lack of power become glaringly apparent, and on the the return dash back along the open, looping 'straight' I find myself cursing the GT3's lack of grunt. It's an absurd complaint in a car capable of hitting 100mph in just 9.4sec, but the sight of a bright red Ferrari hollering off into the distance tends to give you a slightly warped perspective of what fast really is.
Ultimately the 360's lighter build, coupled with the fact that it's motor has the GT3's moves covered even through the mid-range, means that when it rams home its advantage at the top end the Porsche is left struggling for breath.
Perhaps because of the Ferrari's straight-line advantage, I find myself trying harder in the tight corners, driving around the front-end's initial reluctance and exploiting the 911's uniquely adjustable balance. It's a rewaring, absorbing process getting the rear weight bias working to your advantage, and far from the perilous tightrope walk you might imagine it to be, the GT3 remains predictable and exploitable enough to power the tail out of line as the corner opens out. It certainly feels less edgy than the Stradale, which isn't a car that encourages a fast-and-loose cornering style, at least on the road.
As we exit the final hairpin and crest the rise of the Stelvio's summit I know the Porsche has been outgunned, but the GT3's still got right under my skin. I'm not in the quivering, adrenalin-saturated state I was on emerging from the 360, a car that when pushed to extremes throws so much at you it's not a case of savouring the experience (as it is in the GT3) but simply surviving the savage sensory double whammy of volume and velocity. Choosing between them is painful, but if your after the raw, nefarious thrills of a racecar on the road the Stradale gets the nod.
But this isn't the end of the story, for Stuttgart is poised to unleash an even more potent weapon from it's armoury, the GT3 RS. Ferrari might have won the battle, but the war is set to rage on. To be continued....."
from a handling perspective the strad has its hands full with the 05 boxster s, you better go get one. not equivalent power, but certainly equivalent handling.
btw,
it's funny to drive a boxster S with an honest speedo and realise the psychological effect F gets "wow i'm going so fast so effortlessly" with their speedo's that read high about 10 mph [my stradale vs my box S]. part of the legende is FAKE.
dang wattster, you used to love the CS (maybe if you'd have just gotten the tan interior
). i think the only thing that bothers me about the "legend" is that they were dynoing at 329 RWHP which implies a 25% drivetrain loss - assuming an honest HP rating. no way a RWD loses 25%. that said, i think the "wow, i'm going fast" feeling from the CS comes from the sound, the high reving NA motor, and the stripped out interior (which accentuates the sound) not the speedo which i only looked at when my radar went off.
btw, thanks alot for helping me sell my CS. the transaction with Andy was butter smooth and he really appreciated the car. i miss hell out of it, but it would just be sitting in the garage playing 2nd fiddle to the CGT. truth is too, i'm just not an f1 shifter kind of guy.
Re: Stradale Impressions
Quote:
watt said:
btw,
it's funny to drive a boxster S with an honest speedo and realise the psychological effect F gets "wow i'm going so fast so effortlessly" with their speedo's that read high about 10 mph [my stradale vs my box S]. part of the legende is FAKE.
What's funny to me is that AFAIK, Ferrari speedos have been supplying this "wow" factor by the buckets full for at least 40 years. It doesn't make the cars any less thrilling to drive or any less savory to view, but it does let the air out of some owners' feelings of technical superiority when they can't trust their lyin' eyes.
Re: Stradale Impressions
CS is sold. leaving tomorrow to a rennteam lurker from chicago. hi tom.
btw i bet F's HP figures are exxagerated, just like the real weight of the strad is so much more than quoted in the owner's manual. none of which takes anything away from the fact that is the most fun car i have EVER owned, out, what, 50 sports cars....
truly a lightning bolt from the Hand of God. Forza!
btw i bet F's HP figures are exxagerated, just like the real weight of the strad is so much more than quoted in the owner's manual. none of which takes anything away from the fact that is the most fun car i have EVER owned, out, what, 50 sports cars....
truly a lightning bolt from the Hand of God. Forza!
Re: Stradale Impressions
Quote:
watt said:
CS is sold. leaving tomorrow to a rennteam lurker from chicago. hi tom.
btw i bet F's HP figures are exxagerated, just like the real weight of the strad is so much more than quoted in the owner's manual. none of which takes anything away from the fact that is the most fun car i have EVER owned, out, what, 50 sports cars....
truly a lightning bolt from the Hand of God. Forza!
congrats on the sale. how'd you do on yours relative to purchase price. i know you got a good 9k miles out of it.
fwiw, the manual states 2800 (doesn't it?), but that is the Euro model and includes the plastic windows, euro cats, etc. i've yet to hear of a truly weighed CS in the US. while it feels quite light, it isn't anywhere near 2800. is it my bad memory, or doesn't the US model have a much larger gas tank at 26 gal as well? isn't curb weight with a full tank?
Re: Stradale Impressions
gas is about 6 lb/ gal or 150 for a full US tank. 3k for a full tanked CS (especially for a US version with glass windows, the heavier cats, and larger gas tank is as suspect as some of the rest.
they list the (euro version) weight at 2602 w/out gas and 2822 full (oddly this is a 220 lb diff for the gas which way exceeds the 6 lb estimate and/or the 25.1 tank). the euro versions have 20.9 gal tanks and the US 25.1 (i believe these weight numbers are on the euro verson). if you add 25 lbs for the extra gas to the 2822 you need to find a 150 lb explaination for ferrari vs. fchat (were those cars equipped with leather, option hi-fi, etc and isn't the a/c an option everywhere but the US?). i doubt the glass windows, electric window motors and cats weight 150, but they're probably not off crazily and there may be some other US mandated safety equipment not found on euro models. that said, the ferrari listed #s for the modena and spider are utter bs. fwiw, ferrari states either 430 coupe or spider is 3351 (forget which). isn't that kinda "ugh"?
they list the (euro version) weight at 2602 w/out gas and 2822 full (oddly this is a 220 lb diff for the gas which way exceeds the 6 lb estimate and/or the 25.1 tank). the euro versions have 20.9 gal tanks and the US 25.1 (i believe these weight numbers are on the euro verson). if you add 25 lbs for the extra gas to the 2822 you need to find a 150 lb explaination for ferrari vs. fchat (were those cars equipped with leather, option hi-fi, etc and isn't the a/c an option everywhere but the US?). i doubt the glass windows, electric window motors and cats weight 150, but they're probably not off crazily and there may be some other US mandated safety equipment not found on euro models. that said, the ferrari listed #s for the modena and spider are utter bs. fwiw, ferrari states either 430 coupe or spider is 3351 (forget which). isn't that kinda "ugh"?
Re: Stradale Impressions
Quote:
from a handling perspective the strad has its hands full with the 05 boxster s, you better go get one. not equivalent power, but certainly equivalent handling.
I guess if they were both pushed from the top of a hill with the power off that could make things interesting.
And around here the Boxster has got a very bad rep. for being a chicks only car. That kinda thing really shouldn't influence my decision but it does.
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