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    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

    Now all they need (in USA) is a bigger, better, more accessible, denser Electrify America.  Or maybe something entirely different to compete with (complement?) the Tesla Supercharger network.

    I'm not worried about daily driving and charging up in my garage.  I need better long-trip 300kW+ charging access.


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    Mike

    918 Spyder + Taycan Turbo + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

    Shaich:

     

    I think Musk's biggest issue is that he gives/promises dates and misses out by "only" 3-4 years or so... Smiley I think he is just trying to make people wait for his stuff, but he knows he cant deliver and that is really annoying IMO

    It's more about what he 'wishes' to happen instead of what he 'planned' to happen. He is really only saying stuff to periodically prop up the stock price. I believe he has ADD so he can't quite focus on one single thing, his mind keep wandering all around to think of new things he wanted to do. 

    Love the Lucis yes its very interesting, my only problem with the Porsche is the range, funny as I usually not making so long distances but I still want to go more than 300km on the Autobahn without the need of a charge (in my world it should be at least 500km of real Autobahn range in that price category) 

    Long distance on the Autobahn is still the domain for normal cars or hybrids. EVs simply are limited by how much energy they can carry. If we put the hyper efficient Lucid drivetrain into the Taycan, the range still wouldn't be good enough for your liking at Autobahn speed. That's the the down side to electric motors, the energy draw is exponentially higher at high rpm as the efficiency suffers. Porsche tried to mitigate that with the 2-speed gearbox dropping the operating rpm down. Still not enough. Perhaps adding another cruise gear would help. 

    In the end, EVs are still more suitable as a city car, for intercity travel, a hybrid will be the better choice if one wants to be 'green'. 

     

     


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    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

    First deliveries begin October 30.

    https://twitter.com/LucidMotors/status/1453346482589945864


    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

     


    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

    https://spectrum.ieee.org/lucid-air-500-miles-ev?


    --

    Mike

    918 Spyder + Taycan Turbo + Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S P100D AP2 + BMWs (Z8 + 3.0 CSi) + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

    Mike you getting a Lucid?

     


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    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

    Whoopsy:

    Mike you getting a Lucid?

     

    He mentioned ordering one long ago. Good article. Note the mention of Bi-directional charging using the Wunderbox. Also that long range is not as important and the importance of home charging. 


    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

    Bi-Directional charging isn't important to me, I have a 25kW Generac that runs on natural gas, no need to use car batteries to power the house if there is a power failure. Everything that's important has a UPS hooked up during the switch over. 

    Also gonna skip the Ford Bi-Directional charger for my F150 Lightning for that same reason. 

    Wanted to see how good the fit and finish is at that price point. 

     

     


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    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

    I like it for load balancing - cheaper off peak rates to charge the car and later use the car energy. All computer controlled.  Also solar down the road can really use the ‘Car batteries’ as you like to paint them. Some battery chemistry lends itself to lasting far longer than a car. 


    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

    What's painting them? 

    Batteries inside a car for use by the car, if that's not car batteries I don't know what is🤷🏻‍♂️ Stop thinking too much and try to nitpick. 

    Where I live, it rains more than half the year, solar is pointless. Plus we have flat rate 24/7, powered by hydro dams. Natural gas is also cheap and plentiful, there is no reason not to use it to power my generator. 

    The only thing I can think of to improve would be to have a always on UPS for the whole house, where power comes into the battery, be it from the grid or my generator, then everything in the house comes off the battery the other side, that way there will not be a switchover period. Will be a big big pack however, as I would require it to have at least 35kW of instant power, just so it can power everything in the house, including the air conditioner and EV chargers. 


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    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

    You point out correctly that we all have different needs and economic forces to contend with.  Then you give us your specific examples for all of us to follow because it does not make sense or matter to you. Priceless. For some the sun shines all the time and for some a car battery looks like a car battery of old and is nothing like 100kw of stored energy which has plenty of uses when not rolling a car.  All I am pointing out are all the options and possibilities.  Certainly someone so focused on 400 volt vs 800 volt can appreciate the possibilities and that a manufacturer’s product is better when flexible for more uses. Maybe also imagine yourself in the ever age persons place for a change. 


    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

    Watch World's First Lucid Air 0-100% DC Fast Charge Test



    The Air also became the first production EV that we've seen to accept more than 300 kW (304kW).


    20% to 80% in 31.5 minutes. That's 300 miles EPA range.


     











     


    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

    Impressive.


    --

    2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
    2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White


    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

    Looks like it charges like all the others except a huge battery pack which lets you charge faster a bit longer.  What surprised me was the ten percent loss of power during the charge. It barely charged over 300 for a few minutes then dropped way off like pretty much all batteries. 
    makes no difference in real life since I would suspect people with this car in mind can charge at home. I would be curious how efficient and quick home charging is especially bi directional charging which they said they would do. That would be an interesting demonstration. 


    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

     


    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

    Nice analysis of the Lucid design language.  https://youtu.be/s1RdVgzto3M


    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

     


    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

    Two of the best auto reviewers in North America.  Thank you for posting it. 


    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

    CGX car nut:

    Two of the best auto reviewers in North America.  Thank you for posting it. 

    +1. Their videos keep getting better and better. 


    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

     


    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

    Lucid Air Vs Tesla Model S Plaid






    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

    Finally.

    That second graph should become industry standard.  How long do I have to plug in my car at home, at a charging station or some other destination, to go a set distance.  This should ease range anxiety for the vast majority of consumers.


    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

    waiting for PDK:

    Finally.

    That second graph should become industry standard.  How long do I have to plug in my car at home, at a charging station or some other destination, to go a set distance.  This should ease range anxiety for the vast majority of consumers.

     

    I am also interested in AC level 2 charging and miles per hour or per minute will is of course the spec which matters most. Ac fast charging is how I charge 99.9% of the time. Of particular interest is the Lucid’s ability to do bi directional charging and how fast the home charger is. I would like to see that demonstrated.   
    Of course level 2 charging is so much slower to begin with that these curves make no difference and do not apply. However many amps the lucid home charger will allow is going to be the decider of how many miles per hour it can charge.   My car charges at 48 miles per hour with the winter tires regardless of the charge % remaining except for the last two percent or so when it drops off just a tiny bit until 100%. Never do that unless I’m immediately going on a long trip though. 
    The huge benefits of charging at home are lower cost, no real waiting and less lost power managing the battery temps like during DC fast charging.  My average additional electric charge is at most $17 per month which can be done off peak via schedule.  Hardly much of a drain on the grid as people think it is. 


    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

    waiting for PDK:

    Finally.

    That second graph should become industry standard.  How long do I have to plug in my car at home, at a charging station or some other destination, to go a set distance.  This should ease range anxiety for the vast majority of consumers.

    Distance per minute charged or hour charged is completely meaningless.

    My mpg, or miles per hours charged, is completely different than yours, or Jane Smith down the road as our usage patterns and gas pedal application profiles will be completely different. 

    Saying something about miles gain on a timed scale is a marketing gimmick and nothing more. Useless numbers.

    Over the last 2 1/2 years, my e-Tron has been averaging 340km per 'tank for my driving. My buddy who got one last year, max-ed out at 240km for a full charge. Think the EPA rated the car at 319km for a full charge. US EPA rated a Taycan 4S as doing 220 miles or something on a full charge, that's 352km. I have yet to go under 400km on a full charge, even at near zero degree and raining and at night. EPA also rated a Model 3 for doing 400 miles? 350? Or whatever. No one on Earth have yet to come close to the EPA rating after like a decade or something. How do you quantify miles per minutes charged or hours charged? 

    Modern EVs do have adaptive range estimate. That published graph is only valid for that particular tester's driving habit. How do you know his 4 miles per minute charged or whatever will be the same for you? Will you be the 2 miles per minute charged guy? Or you will be the one that gets 6 miles for the same minute?

     

    Everyone knows how far a 'full tank' goes with their own driving habits. The most realistic metric would be how long it takes to charge it to full and everyone can make their own deduction on how far they can go. 

     


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    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

    I do not have a full electric car. We have two plug-in hybrids with stupid range of 40 km.

    As far as I have heard it is useful to charge from 10 or 20% up to 60-80% if you are charging during a longer trip. Therefore it is important to predict how much km or miles you get for a 10 or 20 minutes charge. 

    The same happens to me with my gasoline cars. I can deduct german VAT and driving in CH or AT sometime I fill only gas so I can reach either Germany or my house. In that case I have also to calculate how I will drive and how far I have to drive and then calculate the litres. 


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    AM


    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

    Obviously cars which charge quickly in terms of energy but are not efficient will not do well in terms of miles per hour charged.  Still, given that the combination of charging speed and efficiency are what actually determines how long a trip will take it is almost impossible to ignore the logic. Impossible unless  … well you know. 
    As owners become more aware of these specs things will shake out.  Charging speed without taking efficiency into account reminds me of the days when car companies would brag how cheap it was to fill up a tank (tiny tank) to demonstrate how cheap it was to fill up a car.  Of course, without knowing how many miles per gallon a car could go such a stat is as useless as peak charging speed. 
    impressively the Lucid can charge up to 80 amps from a 100 amp outlet at home. Essentially double the what a modern Tesla can do (48 amps in a 60 amp outlet) The old S was available once with dual on board chargers which could use 80 amps. 
    Seems the bidirectional capability of the Lucid will roll out sometime later this year. 


    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

    ALDO:

    I do not have a full electric car. We have two plug-in hybrids with stupid range of 40 km.

    As far as I have heard it is useful to charge from 10 or 20% up to 60-80% if you are charging during a longer trip. Therefore it is important to predict how much km or miles you get for a 10 or 20 minutes charge. 

    The same happens to me with my gasoline cars. I can deduct german VAT and driving in CH or AT sometime I fill only gas so I can reach either Germany or my house. In that case I have also to calculate how I will drive and how far I have to drive and then calculate the litres. 

     

    Of course it is. But range on a EV is the same as range on a normal car. It varies depending on driving style.

    For my driving style in my Taycan, a full charge goes ~420km. Instantly I know I will do ~40km per 10%. But for someone that only uses the EPA rated range as a guideline, their 10% charge only goes 35km. Others might have a lighter foot than me and can get 450km on a full charge, so their 10% means 45km. 

    How do we know which driving style those published range charged per minute graphs are based on? A 10% charge time using EPA data will only net you 35km, while for that light footed crowd it will be 45km, that's a variation of 10km right there. For a 20-80% charge session, the difference will be 60km, which means the light footed one could have finish his charging much earlier. That 60km difference is the same as the difference between my e-Tron and my Taycan on a full charge. 

    A gas pump at Shell or whatever doesn't shows miles per litre pumped. Why? Cause every car has a different fuel economy rating, hence even for the same car there will be variations between drivers. You might like to cruise on the highway in 7th gear, maybe I would prefer to keep it in 5th, instantly my range will be less than yours, even in the same car.

    Leawood here had been driving his Model 3 for years, he has intimate knowledge on how far he car can go on a full charge. When charging, he does't need a graph to check how many miles per minute his car is charging at. He knows instantly how many miles per 10% charged his car is getting.

    A miles per minute charged graph is only useful if they also show how the car is being driven, how much regen the driver is using and how much throttle are applied, and how many of the electric accessories the car has engaged, and the total current draw by the car in their calculation for miles per minute charged. 

    kW per minute charged or % per minute charge is much more useful, people instantly knows how full their 'tank' is, and how much electricity is being pumped into the car. For a car charging at say 180kW per hour, that's 3kW per minute. 


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    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

    Watch Record-Setting Lucid Air Dream Edition 70-MPH Range Test

     

    Lucid promised a 500-mile EV. They delivered.


     

     












     

    Tesla vehicles, for instance, usually underperform their EPA range number by 10% to 13%. The Air actually did very well in this regard, falling only 4% short of its EPA range rating (surprisingly, the highway, city, and combined range rating for the Air Dream Edition Range are all 520 miles).


    Impressive! Smiley

     


    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

    The impressive part is that they got slightly more than 4 miles per kwh which is impressive if they went 70mph and not all downhill will a tailwind. I’m certain they corrected for that.  The rest is just the size of the battery.  My model3 can also get close to 4 miles per kwh but maybe not with my lead foot. 
    Anyway - good for them that they have found their strategy for success.  Not certain where the sweet spot is in terms of range and charging speed.  Both are only needed in special circumstances.  in my case, since I drive less than 300 miles per day and charge at home 99% of the time only electric cost, in other words , miles per kwh , matter much to me. 
    Keep in mind that YMMV anytime humans are at the controls.   But hats off. That is one big battery! 
     


    Re: [2021] Lucid Air (900v, 113 kWh, 1080HP, 517miles(832Km) range)

     


     
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