Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: I'm Disgusted Looking at My Boxster - Page1

Mar 24, 2005 2:56:23 AM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004

I'm Disgusted Looking at My Boxster

2003 S with 7000 miles and a brand new RMS leak. My Boxster was my favorite car. Now, I look at the car think of Porsche and get disgusted.

yeah they'll fix it and some mechanic at the dealer will take the whole damn thing apart and put it back togeather according to _HIS_ plan. Not the plan at the factory, but HIS way of doing things which might or might not result in a few left over parts ("you don't need that washer"), a few untorqued bolts, a few bent and/or misaligned clips, supports, connectors, a few hoses not peoperly re- secured, etc etc etc. EXPLETIVE!!!!

Pisses me off that the damn cars leak like diapers. Makes me think twice about ordering the 997S.

For RMS repair, at least the boxster "only" requires the tranny be removed.I fear the 911 requires the entire engine be removed.

sorry for the rant.

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Mar 24, 2005 5:56:19 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59582, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: MMD

Re: I'm Disgusted Looking at My Boxster

Sorry to hear that.

And you don't have to be sorry for the "rant", this is why we have this forum for.

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Mar 24, 2005 6:01:33 AM

vtrader: Veteran; Loc: Los Angeles; Posts: 1086, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 6, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: I'm Disgusted Looking at My Boxster

Quote:
MMD said:
... which might or might not result in a few left over parts ("you don't need that washer"), ...

I remember when I had to rebuild my 914 engine (its amazing how engines don't run when the gas from the gas station contains more water than gas!). I had one coffee can of parts left over. Could not figure out where those parts came from. But, the car ran just fine for another 120,000 miles.

Just give it time. In all relationships there are ups and downs. Pretty soon, the RMS leak will just be a distant memory.

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Mar 24, 2005 3:07:27 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: vtrader

Re: I'm Disgusted Looking at My Boxster

Oops, I was wrong. For RMS replacement, the tranny and flywheel is all that has to be removed in either 911 and Boxster. It's not a HUGE job to just drop the tranny in these cars. I feel a tiny bit better about it.

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Mar 24, 2005 3:16:33 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: vtrader

Re: I'm Disgusted Looking at My Boxster

Quote:
vtrader said:

I remember when I had to rebuild my 914 engine (its amazing how engines don't run when the gas from the gas station contains more water than gas!). I had one coffee can of parts left over. Could not figure out where those parts came from. But, the car ran just fine for another 120,000 miles.

Yeah, it's okay when us learn-by-doing amateurs have stuff like that happen. It's kind of embarassing if it becomes a way of life though.

RThe fact that actual professional mechanics might have this "it will do" or "you don't need that washer" attitude really pi**es me off though.

You figure the rewarding challenge of the job would be to exactly and perfectly do good things according to procedure that result in the greatest possible reliablilty.

In a related but totally overstated comparision, It's like writing computer code that is PERFECT, working in an environment where one little punctuation mark in the wrong place can spell disaster. You have a great deal of pride and accomplishment when you do 5000 things and 5000 of them are perfect whereas if only 4999 were done perfectly you'd have to consider yourself a miserable failure.

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Mar 24, 2005 4:00:53 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21149, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: MMD

Re: I'm Disgusted Looking at My Boxster

I knew it, had to be the damn RMS

Oh, well, join the club

but don't let it get you down, its only a leaky seal, repair is simple, the car will perform the same and is just as reliable as before (RMS is not realted to how hard you drive it or anynithing).

I would direct the anger not towards the car which is perfect, the leak itself is no big deal if you think about it, but rather direct it towards Porsche AG who hasen't fixed this issue of their engines or taken responsability on the matter since the first Boxsters started to roll out the factory lots back in 1997!! Thats what pisses me off.

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Mar 25, 2005 2:58:26 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: I'm Disgusted Looking at My Boxster

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
I knew it, had to be the damn RMS

Oh, well, join the club but don't let it get you down, its only a leaky seal, repair is simple, the car will perform the same and is just as reliable as before (RMS is not realted to how hard you drive it or anynithing).

I would direct the anger not towards the car which is perfect, the leak itself is no big deal if you think about it, but rather direct it towards Porsche AG who hasen't fixed this issue of their engines or taken responsability on the matter since the first Boxsters started to roll out the factory lots back in 1997!! Thats what pisses me off.

Thanks for your support Carlos. Did you guys see this picture of the seal? It is HUGE. It's size is probably the reason it leaks. getting two small circles to be concentric to a .001 inch is much easier than getting much bigger circles to be so. Too bad the crank can't be made smaller diameter?

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Mar 25, 2005 3:05:57 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: I'm Disgusted Looking at My Boxster

Must admit, surprised at the size of the seal. Even so, surely it's only a simple lip type seal, retaining only minimal crankcase pressure, so I can't believe it is beyond the wit of Porsche, with all their engineering expertise to come up with a fix.

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Mar 26, 2005 6:35:16 PM

Tool Pants: Newbie; Loc:; Posts: 30, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2002; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: I'm Disgusted Looking at My Boxster

The seal does look huge in that picture due to the angle. It is not that big looking in real life, less than 4 inches.

The second generation is on the left and the one that just came out is on the right.

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Mar 26, 2005 6:52:21 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21149, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Tool Pants

Re: I'm Disgusted Looking at My Boxster

Quote:
Tool Pants said:
The seal does look huge in that picture due to the angle. It is not that big looking in real life, less than 4 inches.

The second generation is on the left and the one that just came out is on the right.

Jeff,
Nice comparo pic. Have you heard of any more RMS leaks in the 997 (or 987) other than Austin's (aka "infestation") 997S leak?

BTW, the non-carrera/boxster engines like the 996TT or GT3 for example don't suffer from the RMS leak issue, but I believe their RMS are similar in diameter, do you know?

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Mar 26, 2005 8:22:54 PM

964C2: Expert; Loc: Dallas, TX , United States; Posts: 1825, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: I'm Disgusted Looking at My Boxster

The TT, GT2, GT3 engine is a totally different engine design...the block is based on the air-cooled 3.6 design, much more robust and suited for racing.

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Mar 26, 2005 9:33:00 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21149, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: 964C2

Re: I'm Disgusted Looking at My Boxster

Yes, their crackcase is different, thats why I'm interested in knowing if their RMS is the same diameter becuase if it is, then the RMS issues on the Boxster and carrera M96.01/03 engines is not related to its diameter like I suspect.

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Mar 27, 2005 4:59:46 AM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: I'm Disgusted ... no need to be.

If your dealer is competent, an RMS repair is no big deal. These are race cars designed to change/dismantle engines very quickly - and it's done w/o a problem. Where I live, there are at least 3 dealers w/ competent mechanics who know the flat-6 in and out.

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Mar 27, 2005 10:25:57 AM

Tool Pants: Newbie; Loc:; Posts: 30, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2002; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: I'm Disgusted Looking at My Boxster

There are two 997s on Rennlist. My mechanic friend Peter said he knew of two 997s. Peter is a tech advisor to the Porsche club of America and the shop foreman at my local dealer. He will be putting on a tech session for us locals on April 9th for the 997/987. http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=15&st=0&#entry24 If there is time I will ask him to update the issue. Porsche has again changed the tool to seat the seal.

I have not seen a report of a 987 but it has only been out for two months in the US. It has been out since November in the UK and there has been a claim that on boxa.net there is a 987 with a leaking seal. I am on that board and the owner said the leak was near the wheel. That is not a RMS.

The 996/986/997/987 seal is 85 x 105 x 11 mm. The seal on the cars using the air cooled crankcases is a bit larger.

Another mechanic I know said that he was told at training school that the third generation seal, #41, has a tighter spring that pulls the lip of the seal together. I played around with #40 and #41 and could feel no difference. In any event, if the spring is tighter it is a band-aid approach. When I started Boxstering mechanics were taking the first generation seal and cutting the spring to pull the lips together, and it did not work then.

You can see the spring in this picture

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Mar 27, 2005 10:40:49 AM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21149, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Tool Pants

Re: I'm Disgusted Looking at My Boxster

Very informative as always Jeff

So looks like yet again the RMS remains unfixed, again the band-aid approach as you say, new tools, new seals... same old, same old

The question is if its as frequent in the 987/997 as in the 986/996, but it seems there is no reason whatsoever to believe otherwise.

Keep us informed if you learn anything at the tech session please, this needs to be talked about and made known.

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