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    Mar 18, 2005 6:16:03 AM

    JimFlat6
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    JimFlat6
    Loc: Cave , United States
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    Rumors of a Baby Boxster

    From www.autospies.com Not sure if story is for real or just an attempt to PR autospies, but FWIW .....

    "Baby Boxster for the masses? Maybe according to Porsche people ...

    During a recent discussion with a colleague, he let slip that the senior Porsche marketing people have examined the possibility of a Baby Boxster utilising an electronically detuned version of the 2.7-litre flat six engine plus a number of other components from the base model Boxster. Using existing parts allows the engineers to build a cheap, profitable car designed to go head-to-head with the Lotus Elise, reviving the old Excel / 944 battles of the 80's.

    Actual model versions remain secret but it's muted that the car could be solely a Targa variant. Whats even more interesting is that Porsche are not concerned about the news leaking out because it's only a discussion at this stage.

    However, I was surprised to discover that they read Autospies comments and follow your site VERY closely for many things but especially to monitor readers reactions and opinions!

    So, if the idea of a sub $50,000 Porker intrigues or disgusts - add a comment to this story and maybe you can influence them ..."""""

    Mar 18, 2005 6:25:22 AM

    Moogle
    Rennteam Master
    Moogle
    Loc: Bay Area , United States
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    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: Rumors of a Baby Boxster

    the boxster is already porsche's baby model

    with the introduction of the cayman and the upcoming 4door, there will be a total of 5 model lines above it.

    Mar 18, 2005 6:39:08 AM

    mcdelaug
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    mcdelaug
    Loc: Fort Worth, Texas , United States
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    Registered on: Mar 3, 2004
    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: Rumors of a Baby Boxster

    Personally I think this is a bad iea.

    Porsche should try to learn from the mistakes of others.
    BMW has tried to move "downmarket" to broaden their appeal. In my opinion the models below the 3 series have cost BMW more in corporate image than they generated in new sales and profit. The same could be said of Mercedes.

    Perhaps most concerning to me though is that they would make their detuning so obvious. It is clear that the Boxster engines are already somewhat detuned (lower compression ratio, lower specific output) but having a model with identical displacement that was simply "diluted" to make it cheaper is a bad marketing policy. If the corporate philospohy is supposed to be one of dedication to making full performance, minimum compromise sport vehicles, a vehicle that is so clearly "crippled by design" just smacks of hypocrisy. I would be far less interested in buying one of Porsche's higher end products if the common perception among other enthusiasts was that Porsche has excellent marketing but compromises on performance when it can make them money.

    This is already a large enough problem with RMS, dry-sump, etc. I hope Porsche is listening, because there really is a limit to how much of this kind of "marketing uber alles" folloishness that their enuthsiast customers will tolerate.

    mcdelaug

    Mar 18, 2005 8:16:57 AM

    wtsnet
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    wtsnet
    Loc: Bath, UK
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    Reply to: mcdelaug

    Re: Rumors of a Baby Boxster

    I think it would be good to give the Elise some competition from a car that is stripped-down, handles well, but is still reasonably practical (which the Elise is not). It would have to be executed really well so as not to dilute the brand though.

    I think, personally, that the Panamera is a blatent play to the US market (as was the Cayenne) - V8? Sounds like 'PanAmerican'? - and may hurt the brand's image in Europe at the expense of greater US sales.

    And fuel prices in the UK are approaching Pounds1 a litre - that's approx $9 a gallon - which is only going to get worse. Not sure what sort of point I'm making there, but it'll probably affect some buying decisions in the future, hence the effort towards hybrid Cayennes.

    But the guy in charge of model names really needs to be shot! Cayman?

    Mar 18, 2005 9:01:00 AM

    Steve R
    Senior
    Steve R
    Loc: UK - Edinburgh
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    Registered on: Feb 17, 2005
    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: Rumors of a Baby Boxster

    I think that would be a bad idea and devalue the brand. If they are looking to become a BMW or Merc brand with their lack of past values then I would think it may be a road to ruin for Porsche. People aspire to the brand because it is somewhat unobtainable. A Porsche for the masses? Maybe the accountants would like the short term returns but IMO the long term damage to the brand would be imeasurable. Porsche have a niche and although they are cleverly expanding it to include a 4x4 and a 4 door car (which I quite like) they should stick to their core principles.

    Mar 18, 2005 11:32:59 AM

    jyiu
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    jyiu
    Loc: Hong Kong , Hong Kong
    Posts: 48, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 23, 2004
    Reply to: Steve R

    Re: Rumors of a Baby Boxster

    May be they can create a new company to sell cheaper car, just like the Japanese except the reverse.

    Mar 18, 2005 5:09:32 PM

    Grant
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    Grant
    Loc: Denver, CO , United States
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    Reply to: jyiu

    Re: Rumors of a Baby Boxster

    I think they should built it closer to the original 550 Spyder's proportions (the Boxster's inspiration), but it would never pass crash tests, most likely...

    Mar 18, 2005 6:29:40 PM

    Justin
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    Justin
    Loc: San Diego, CA, USA
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    Registered on: Jan 12, 2003
    Reply to: Grant

    Re: Rumors of a Baby Boxster

    Thought the VW brand already served this purpose, but of course, Porsche would not get as big of a cut this way.

    Anyone else think Autospies is a lame newsletter, especially compared to Rennteam?

    Mar 18, 2005 7:23:41 PM

    JimFlat6
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    JimFlat6
    Loc: Cave , United States
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    Registered on: Jul 25, 2004
    Reply to: Justin

    Re: Rumors of a Baby Boxster, Good

    So many brand and strategic marketing experts here !

    Porsche should come out with a dimensionally smaller car, with a lower fender and roof line and less weight. If
    anyone has the technology to build a 2200lb sports car that
    meets crash regs and handles great, its Porsche. With that type of package, who cares if it only has a 240 hp engine, it would be fast enough.

    The early giant killer Porsches were nimble, light, spartan and visceral rapiers, wich a 2850lb 987 can never be!

    Something thats actually FUN, light, not capsule feeling, that is not just another smug faced "we are sooo serious" heavy uber sport GT is long overdue from Porsche. They implied that would be the case with the early 97-98 Boxster, but somehow the production car elicited little of that essence compared to the Boxster show car that promised it.

    So I say build it!

    Mar 18, 2005 7:32:07 PM

    Justin
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    Justin
    Loc: San Diego, CA, USA
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    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: Rumors of a Baby Boxster, Good

    The problem is that very few people want such a car, unless it can be made to be nearly as comortable as an S2000 or Boxster. Am I wrong to make such a characterization?

    Mar 18, 2005 8:31:10 PM

    JimFlat6
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    JimFlat6
    Loc: Cave , United States
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    Reply to: Justin

    Re: Rumors of a Baby Boxster, Good

    The S2000 is a good example of smaller than boxster sports car. A mid engine Porsche of similar height and dimensions with a lower center of gravity from a flat engine and Porsche's magical steering, brakes and chassis would be outstanding.

    You really dont need to have 19X10 wheels, sub chassis f&R, hydraulic motor mounts or power steering to get around corners fast. All of that stuff just adds isolation, cost,weight and negates nimbleness.

    Mar 18, 2005 9:56:06 PM

    Justin
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    Justin
    Loc: San Diego, CA, USA
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    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: Rumors of a Baby Boxster, Good

    Sounds like you just described my Elise.

    Porsche has many times the engineering resources that Lotus has, so no doubt it would be a stunning car. But just as the Boxster Coupe is enroaching on the 911's territory with its ever increasing performance, so would this lightweight car.

    What you are lookin for from Porsche is probably just Carlos's Boxster Coupe GTS. Seems more simple to modify a Boxster than develop a new car.

    Mar 19, 2005 3:28:30 AM

    ljd 924SE
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    ljd 924SE
    Loc: FL
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    Reply to: Justin

    Re: Rumors of a Baby Boxster, Good

    i, too, would love to see a smaller dimension mid-engine model. the more spartan, the better; just like an elise except a longitudinal flat-6 instead of the tranverse inline-4.

    take away some of the comfort of the boxster, you change the type of buyer and lose the "chick car" stigma.

    motor trend magazine has a great sketch of a modern 914-6.

    Mar 19, 2005 4:06:13 AM

    GM AustinM
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    GM Austin
    Loc: Texas , United States
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    Reply to: Justin

    Re: Rumors of a Baby Boxster

    Quote:
    Justin said:
    Anyone else think Autospies is a lame newsletter, especially compared to Rennteam?



    Compared to Rennteam? Yes, of course! Autospies is lame compared to anything else! The tenor of their reporting is heavily influenced by whoever is doing the most advertising on their website at any given time. And, they ripoff other sites. Many things that we report here on Rennteam get restated on Autospies a few months later as if it came from some confidential inside source. I haven't even looked at the Autospies site in months.

    Mar 19, 2005 6:29:55 AM

    Justin
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    Justin
    Loc: San Diego, CA, USA
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    Registered on: Jan 12, 2003
    Reply to: GM AustinM

    Re: Rumors of a Baby Boxster

    I haven't read their newsletter in a while either. It only took a few months to figure them out. However, I suppose for the guy who doesn't really go on message forums or multiple news sites, it might be a good way to review a summary of the past spy news of the month in a few minutes. Then again, you still have to filter through the BS.

    Mar 19, 2005 7:03:32 AM

    Moogle
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    Moogle
    Loc: Bay Area , United States
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    Registered on: Aug 9, 2003
    Reply to: GM AustinM

    Re: Rumors of a Baby Boxster

    Quote:
    GM Austin said:
    Autospies is lame compared to anything else! The tenor of their reporting is heavily influenced by whoever is doing the most advertising on their website at any given time. And, they ripoff other sites. Many things that we report here on Rennteam get restated on Autospies a few months later as if it came from some confidential inside source. I haven't even looked at the Autospies site in months.



    i agree

    autospies is just a lame regugitation (sometimes months late) of news from other sources, which often they don't credit, and go so far as to claim are their own inside scoop (or at least imply it).

    also they are heavily influenced and biased by their advertisers, just like most american institutions.

    Mar 19, 2005 5:28:38 PM

    Steve R
    Senior
    Steve R
    Loc: UK - Edinburgh
    Posts: 695, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 17, 2005
    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: Rumors of a Baby Boxster, Good

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    So many brand and strategic marketing experts here !





    Spot on and available for consultation if the price is right
     
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