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Board: Porsche - 911 - 996 - Turbo Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

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    May 22, 2002 5:00:13 PM

    Craig(LA)
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    Craig(LA)
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    X-50 vs. Tuned TT



    Has anyone here driven both an X-50 and standard TT with a tuned DME (e.g., approx 460-490 hp/torque -- no other upgrades)? If so, how do they compare? Is one faster off the line than the other? Is one smoother than the other? How do they compare performance wise?

    TIA

    Craig

    May 22, 2002 6:32:37 PM

    Ron (Houston)M
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    Ron (Houston)
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    Reply to: Craig(LA)

    Re: X-50 vs. Tuned TT

    Hey Craig,
    I'm not sure whom I heard it from but I kind of remember that they were saying the difference between the 996TT and the one with X50 package comes into play from the 3rd gear up. fromthe get go 0-60 I believe they said the X50 performs they same as the regular 996TT but after 3800 or 4500 RPM it starts to take off.
    I'm sure RC will elaborate more on this.

    May 22, 2002 6:39:00 PM

    Craig(LA)
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    Reply to: Ron (Houston)M

    Re: X-50 vs. Tuned TT


    Thanks Ron. I heard that the X-50 is faster 0-60.

    I'm more interested in a comparison between the X-50 and an ECU tuned 996TT (approx 460-490 hp/torque). I'm trying to decide whether to purchase an X-50 package or tune the ECU (and maybe exhaust) on a regular 996TT. I'm not interested in 520+ hp. Thus, I'm trying to get a comparison between an X-50 and a tuned 996TT. Anyone?

    TIA

    May 22, 2002 8:05:16 PM

    RCA
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    RC
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    Reply to: Craig(LA)

    Re: X-50 vs. Tuned TT

    Unfortunately Ron is right, the difference between X50 and 996 Turbo is quite marginal, especially below speeds of around 125 mph. The 0-60 time on the X50 is a fraction of a second faster, not even worth mentioning it. Top speed is 2 kph faster, not more because of the shorter 6th gear.
    I understand your question and I try to give you an advise:
    IF you are SURE that you don't want to have 500+ HP later on (and you REALLY have to be sure), go for the X50. Why ? The X50 is expensive but it is original Porsche stuff, tested to the max and it keeps the Turbo an original Porsche. For people wanting to put 500 HP and more on their Turbo, X50 is pretty useless. The larger turbo chargers are the only thing worth the upgrade but you can get them much cheaper later on. The ECU has to be upgraded anyway, the larger intercoolers are pretty cheap and the so called "enforced" X50 gearbox actually incorporates only a shorter 6th gear. So the whole thing is pretty clear: if people are thinking about 500+ HP upgrades, the X50 is thrown out money. I talked to a lot of Tuners about that and made lots of price comparisons.

    May 24, 2002 12:19:50 PM

    Goodwood
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: X-50 vs. Tuned TT

    RC, Have you, yourself, driven an X50? Do you have a "Seat of the Pants" evaluation and comparison to standard tt?

    May 25, 2002 3:59:53 AM

    DUANE
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    Reply to: Goodwood

    Re: X-50 vs. Tuned TT

    I have to chime in here. I have owned both a non X50 turbo and I currently own an X50. The X50 is substantially faster than my 01 non X50 TT. I agree a lot of the power is at higher speeds and rphms. I have heard that as far as power and performance it is comparable to a stage 2 tuned car. The X50 is basically a Gt2 engine with AWD. The other difference is the GT2 has 1.0 bar of boost Versus .09 on the X50. One of my buddies has a Roock 540 and my car is a tad slower than his but its very close.

    May 25, 2002 11:19:27 AM

    Goodwood
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    Reply to: DUANE

    Re: Interesting how opinions vary so widely

    RC says there's practically NO difference between standard tt and X50, yet Duane says the difference is VERY noticable.
    Now, OBJECTIVELY there's not a great deal of difference, but SUBJECTIVELY, there seems to be a fairly wide gap in seat of the pants feel.

    May 25, 2002 6:53:49 PM

    RCA
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    RC
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    Reply to: DUANE

    Re: X-50 vs. Tuned TT

    Duane, no car is the same. I know stock TTs who can almost keep up with a GT2, no kidding. Our other Editor-In-Chief CR testdrove a TT from the factory and was very surprised to see how fast this car was.
    Let me give you an example: We testdrove the 996 Turbo compared to the GT2 and from 0-80 mph, the difference was almost non-existant. Over 100 mph, there was a clear difference and at around 125 mph, the GT2 already drove away. The GT2 is around 100 kg lighter than the 996 Turbo.
    The X50 isn't basically a GT2 engine, the GT2 engine is basically a Turbo engine.
    The GT2 engine has just different turbo chargers, exhaust system (incl. cats), intercoolers and an additional oil pump. The X50 engine lacks to my knowledge the additional oil pump and the gearbox is just an ordinary TT gearbox with a shorter 6th gear without an oil cooler.
    Do you have the official X50 performance data from Porsche ? Tell me the differences between X50 and stock Turbo.
    Regarding Roock and other Tuners: the power claims aren't always what it should be and I guess many people already realized that.
    Don't get me wrong: I still believe that X50 is a good option if you want to have an original Porsche car and don't want to worry about warranty issues or reliability.
    But performancewise, it isn't even near the GT2, especially at speeds below 125 mph.

    May 25, 2002 10:09:33 PM

    Goodwood
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: X-50 vs. Tuned TT

    Here is the url for X50 specs
    http://www.stevecarter.com/911turbo.htm

    May 25, 2002 11:40:34 PM

    RCA
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    RC
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    Reply to: Goodwood

    Re: X-50 vs. Tuned TT ... some more data

    Check this link, it is in german language but I guess it is pretty easy to understand.
    It shows a performance comparison between TT, X50 and GT2.
    All is based on factory performance data and can be confirmed by our experience too:

    Performance comparison TT, X50 and GT2 (manuf. data)

    May 26, 2002 10:29:17 AM

    Goodwood
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: X-50 vs. Tuned TT ...more data, more confusion

    While RC's data is from factory, and is no doubt the most reliable, isn't it interesting that the data offered on the url I posted does differ slightly from the factory's official data with respect to performance. But also like RC's said, individual cars' performance parameters will differ slightly from 1 identical model to another. But, What REALLY puzzles me is this so called "Strenghened" transmission claim.
    This excerpt is directly from the official Porsche press release:
    "The 911 Turbo adds an optional engine enhancement performance package that increases horsepower to 450 (331 kW) @ 5,700 rpm and sustains 457 lb.-ft (620 Nm) of peak torque from 3,500 - 4,500 rpm. The new package includes modifications to the turbo charger, air intake cooler, electronic control unit, exhaust system and a STRENGHENED transmission.
    OK, now Porsche officially says it IS a strenghened tranny, but RC says it's only a shorter 6th gear, which, of course, hasn't a thing to do with strength, or DOES it? Why all this misinformation and confusion?

    May 26, 2002 12:47:38 PM

    cjv
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: X-50 vs. Tuned TT

    RC, the Gt2 is a couple hundred pounds lighter and has .1 bar more boost (about 10 more hp). I would expect this to make it a little faster in the range you are addressing. About the strenghtened claim, do you have access to the Porsche X-50 parts numbers list. Steel syncro's are relatively inexpensive to make. To buy 3rd thru 6th retail is less than $1,000.00 and alot less for Porsche. The real cost is the labor to install later. I would suspect no additional labor cost at origional build. I would suspect if Porsche "strenghtened" the tranny, this might be where it is. The part numbers should tell.

    May 26, 2002 2:12:55 PM

    RCA
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    RC
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    Reply to: cjv

    Re: X-50 vs. Tuned TT ... X50 tranny

    Of course the part numbers of the 996 TT an 996 TT X50 tranny are different because the X50 tranny has a shorter 6th gear. Price tag is absolutely the same, no difference at all, I already checked that.
    Regarding steel synchros on the X50 tranny: as far as I know, the X50 tranny doesn't have steel synchros, only the GT2 tranny has from 3rd to 6th gear. I'll try to get more into that as soon as possible, maybe I can find out more details from the factory.
    Regarding the "strengthened" transmission claim for X50: I really don't know what it is all about. I talked to people who have access to internal technical specs and nobody knows what has been strengthened in the X50 tranny. But this doesn't mean it didn't happen. However the price tag on the TT and X50 tranny is absolutely the same, not even little difference.
    As soon as I get more info on that, I'll post it.

    The picture shows an installed aftermarket gearbox oil cooler for the 996 Turbo.
     
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