Mar 1, 2005 10:29:55 AM

neunelf
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neunelf
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Porsche Panamera

Porsche has secured the name Panamera the same day it has secured "Cayman". According to AMS the car will feature V8 and V10 engines from 340-600HP as well as four doors. AMS claims that the product will go on sale in 2009 for EUR 100-150,000.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/d/77599

Mar 1, 2005 10:44:51 AM

RC A
Rennteam Administrator
RC
Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
Posts: 16956, Gallery
Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
Reply to: neunelf

Re: Porsche Panamera

We reported about Porsche's decision more than a year ago. We also reported that the top model will get a modified version of the Carrera GT V10.
And regarding the name "Panamera", you may want to read this: http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=73030&an=0&page=1#73030 .



A little translation for our US friends: Porsche wants to build a sports sedan with the name Panamera. Production starts 2009 (hi Nick and ben! ), a first prototype/style study may be presented at the IAA to test the reaction of the public.
Power estimated from 340 HP (V8) to 600 HP (V10).
Price figures estimated from 100000 to 150000 Euro.
The car will be produced in Leipzig, estimated production capacity around 20000 per year.
The car on the photoshop job is NOT the final product, just a photoshop job done with a little Porsche help to test the reaction of the public.

A little "unofficial" background: Porsche already testdrives several prototypes under the body of the Audi A8.
We had the chance to have a closer look at one of these prototypes (sorry, no pictures) and it had Carrera GT brakes (at least they looked the same, yellow calipers and PCCB discs, same size), air suspension and the interior was fully of measurement equipment, including a large TFT screen in the front.

Personally, I think that the Panamera decision is a good one, Porsche needs this car more than the Cayenne.
If Porsche is clever enough to sell this car at the SAME price level as the competitors Audi, BMW and Mercedes, the Panamera will be a huge success. They also have to be careful with their "cooperation" partner because Volkswagen didn't do a great job on the Phaeton, especially regarding weight. A Panamera GT with 600 HP and 2500 kg weight would brake Porsche's neck. 2000 kg at max. for the Panamera top model, otherwise this car is history.
I heard that Porsche plans a weight similar to the BMW 5-series, I'm curious if they succeed. The size should also be in the BMW 5-series range, the Panamera is not gonna be another Mercedes S-class.

And we also heard from one of our sources that Porsche was pretty shocked by the Mercedes CLS introduction because Porsche actually wanted to create a new type of car, the sports coupe with four doors. Mercedes apparently enjoys it a lot to "tease" Porsche, it is no co-incidence that the x65 AMG series has the same power figure like Porsche's top model, the Carrera GT.

Mar 1, 2005 10:54:38 AM

neunelf
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neunelf
Loc: Switzerland
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Reply to: RC A

Re: Porsche Panamera

Didn't mean to say that this was new to Rennteam RC. AMS presents the name, the price and the existence of V8s as fact for the new car but they have been wrong as often as they have been right.

Mar 1, 2005 11:07:15 AM

RC A
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RC
Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
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Reply to: neunelf

Re: Porsche Panamera

Quote:
neunelf said:
Didn't mean to say that this was new to Rennteam RC. AMS presents the name, the price and the existence of V8s as fact for the new car but they have been wrong as often as they have been right.



No, this is great news, thanks a lot. Don't get me wrong. I just wanted to point out that if our long time users know how to read between the lines and if they follow our discussions day by day, they know (almost) everything they need to know about Porsche. I'm afraid Porsche is not very pleased with our forums but luckily, there seem to be Porsche employees who share the same spirit and passion as we do here. AMS became in my opinion Porsche's "house magazine", there is never something really new.

Mar 1, 2005 11:32:30 AM

Ron (Houston) M
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Ron (Houston)
Loc: Denver, CO , United States
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Reply to: neunelf

Re: Porsche Panamera

Thanks for the post , here is the picture.

Mar 1, 2005 1:10:37 PM

Carlos from Spain M
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Carlos from Spain
Loc: Spain. , Spain
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Reply to: Ron (Houston) M

Re: Porsche Panamera

They better keep the weight down, BMW 5 series would just right IMO. Porsche's advantage to be able to compete in such a competitive nitche are "driving dinamics", without that it will be a flop and Porsche has tougher competition in that aspect than a CLS, there is the M6 for example.

As to the picture, I hope it looks more agressive than the front, more meaty. They have to CLEARLY differenctiate its front from the Boxster.

Mar 1, 2005 1:33:39 PM

neunelf
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neunelf
Loc: Switzerland
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Reply to: RC A

Re: Porsche Panamera

Blogs and Forums have become key ingredients for any wholistic approach in Corporate Communications. If Porsche doesn't recognize the value, point them to Microsoft, HP, Boeing or articles like http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/91/pr.html. Rennteam is a Godsend for Porsche.

Mar 1, 2005 2:59:10 PM

vtrader
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vtrader
Loc: Los Angeles
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Reply to: Ron (Houston) M

Re: Porsche Panamera

Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
Thanks for the post , here is the picture.


This is the first time that I believe to have seen the picture of it. If it is anything near the real thing, it should real nice. So will it be front engine/rear transmission like the 924/944/928 or something else?

Mar 1, 2005 3:50:46 PM

Ron (Houston) M
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Ron (Houston)
Loc: Denver, CO , United States
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Registered on: Apr 10, 2002
Reply to: Carlos from Spain M

Re: Porsche Panamera

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
As to the picture, I hope it looks more agressive than the front, more meaty. They have to CLEARLY differenctiate its front from the Boxster.



I think Porsche should hire Pininfarina for this one . they need to get out of the box and get creative a bit. This 4-door sedan has no heritage like the 911, it's a new design and concept so they need to come up with something extraordinary IMO.

Mar 1, 2005 5:28:44 PM

Carrageous
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Carrageous
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Reply to: neunelf

Re: Porsche Panamera

Quote:
neunelf said:
Blogs and Forums have become key ingredients for any wholistic approach in Corporate Communications. If Porsche doesn't recognize the value, point them to Microsoft, HP, Boeing or articles like http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/91/pr.html. Rennteam is a Godsend for Porsche.



Neunelf,
I would be very interested hearing about any companies you know who are using forums for their corporate communications. So far, I've only found one company doing that, a U.S. pharaceutical. If you know others, I'm interested. Somehow, the Fast Company link didn't work.

Dain

Mar 1, 2005 6:52:48 PM

Carrageous
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Reply to: RC A

Re: Porsche Panamera

RC,
I've been generally supportive of this idea, but I find myself wondering now, with the news about the upcoming M5, whether or not Porsche can bring something to market that can lead the category. At least, with the Cayenne, there was nothing in that performance range.

I hate to think of Porsche making a "me-too" product that tries to be just as good as the 500-hp M5. Even if it's equal or slightly more desireable, they're in the position of being an imitator, something they've never been.

On the other hand if it looked like this...


D.

Mar 1, 2005 8:02:36 PM

Grant
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Grant
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Reply to: Carrageous

Re: Porsche Panamera

That looks like the love child of a CGT and Maserati Quatraporte

Mar 1, 2005 8:12:38 PM

svtrader1
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Reply to: Grant

Re: Porsche Panamera

Quote:
Grant said:
That looks like the love child of a CGT and Maserati Quatraporte



The front needs to be higher to accommodate a V configured engine.

Mar 1, 2005 8:17:19 PM

fritz
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fritz
Loc: BaWü , Germany
Posts: 6564, Gallery
Registered on: Jul 23, 2003
Reply to: Grant

Re: Porsche Panamera

Quote:
Grant said:
That looks like the love child of a CGT and Maserati Quatraporte



Not a bad combination!

Mar 1, 2005 8:22:27 PM

fritz
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fritz
Loc: BaWü , Germany
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Registered on: Jul 23, 2003
Reply to: svtrader1

Re: Porsche Panamera

Quote:
svtrader1 said:
The front needs to be higher to accommodate a V configured engine.



That should start a few rumours about the car using a boxer engine!

Mar 1, 2005 8:31:56 PM

RC A
Rennteam Administrator
RC
Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
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Reply to: fritz

Re: Porsche Panamera

If we're talking about rumours: I forgot to add that the Panamera is rumoured to get AWD.

Mar 1, 2005 8:44:16 PM

Dr. Phil Offline
Rennteam Master
Dr. Phil
Loc: Denmark , Denmark
Posts: 4925, Gallery
Registered on: Nov 30, 2004
Reply to: Carrageous

Re: Porsche Panamera

Quote:
Carrageous said:
RC,
I've been generally supportive of this idea, but I find myself wondering now, with the news about the upcoming M5, whether or not Porsche can bring something to market that can lead the category. At least, with the Cayenne, there was nothing in that performance range.

I hate to think of Porsche making a "me-too" product that tries to be just as good as the 500-hp M5. Even if it's equal or slightly more desireable, they're in the position of being an imitator, something they've never been.
On the other hand if it looked like this...




If it ends up looking even slightly like this, I think it's safe to say that Porsche will have no problem living up to the "There is no substitute" claim.
This car is absolutely stunning IMO and as long as Chris Bangle at the BMW design studio is trying to create the next official Elephant Man vehicle, I think it's safe to say that there will be very few competitors to a super-sedan like this.
Biggest challenge will probably be to create a luxury sedan that can accommodate 4 grown-ups while not compromizing the legendary Porsche handling.
On the other hand, like the Cayenne, the Porsche badge may be more than enough to sell this car.

Mar 1, 2005 9:13:19 PM

ADias
Rennteam Pro
ADias
Loc: SF Bay, CA , United States
Posts: 2228, Gallery
Registered on: Apr 9, 2004
Reply to: Ron (Houston) M

Re: Porsche Panamera

Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:...This 4-door sedan has no heritage like the 911, it's a new design and concept so they need to come up with something extraordinary IMO.



A P-4-door sedan has no heritage, but it would be nice if it shows marked family traits, not a totally unrelated shape. We do not want another italian luxo box.

Mar 1, 2005 9:54:16 PM

Ron (Houston) M
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Ron (Houston)
Loc: Denver, CO , United States
Posts: 8085, Gallery
Registered on: Apr 10, 2002
Reply to: ADias

Re: Porsche Panamera

Quote:
ADias said:
Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:...This 4-door sedan has no heritage like the 911, it's a new design and concept so they need to come up with something extraordinary IMO.



A P-4-door sedan has no heritage, but it would be nice if it shows marked family traits, not a totally unrelated shape. We do not want another italian luxo box.



Italian design and German Engineering can't go wrong with it.

Mar 1, 2005 10:20:43 PM

Futch M
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Futch
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Registered on: May 14, 2002
Reply to: Ron (Houston) M

Re: Porsche Panamera

Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
Quote:
ADias said:
Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:...This 4-door sedan has no heritage like the 911, it's a new design and concept so they need to come up with something extraordinary IMO.



A P-4-door sedan has no heritage, but it would be nice if it shows marked family traits, not a totally unrelated shape. We do not want another italian luxo box.



Italian design and German Engineering can't go wrong with it.



Lamborghini? Quite good indeed

Mar 1, 2005 11:37:33 PM

neunelf
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neunelf
Loc: Switzerland
Posts: 296, Gallery
Registered on: Nov 4, 2003
Reply to: Carrageous

Re: Porsche Panamera

Carrageous: A good example would be Skype, the leader in free Internet telephony. Their forum is at http://www.skype.com/community/forums.html

Everyone but Carrageous: sorry to be off-topic with this post

Mar 2, 2005 1:10:31 AM

Carrageous
Pilot
Carrageous
Loc: Austin, TX , United States
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Registered on: Sep 5, 2003
Reply to: fritz

Re: Porsche Panamera

I believe this design involves a 3.6 Boxer in front with the V10 in the rear. Makes it a little tough on getting golf clubs in, but who cares?

Mar 2, 2005 4:35:35 AM

ADias
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ADias
Loc: SF Bay, CA , United States
Posts: 2228, Gallery
Registered on: Apr 9, 2004
Reply to: Ron (Houston) M

Re: Porsche Panamera

Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
Italian design and German Engineering can't go wrong with it.



Yes it can go very wrong. The whole Porsche philosophy is form follows function - at least for a die-hard like me. You may not believe this, but I look at a Ferrari and yawn. Never lusted for those italian boxes, never will.

Mar 2, 2005 5:40:56 AM

ADias
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ADias
Loc: SF Bay, CA , United States
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Reply to: ADias

Form follows function...

This is what I mean by "form follows function"

Mar 2, 2005 10:39:00 AM

Carrageous
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Carrageous
Loc: Austin, TX , United States
Posts: 340, Gallery
Registered on: Sep 5, 2003
Reply to: neunelf

Re: Porsche Panamera

Thanks, Neunelf! And I agree, didn't mean to go off topic. In English, the term "corporate communications" usually refers to a company's internal communications, toward and between employees. Skype's forum is for their customer and developer -- therefore external -- community.

If you know of any companies using forums for internal employee communities, would you be so kind as to PM me and tell me about them?

I appreciate.

Now, back to cars!
D

Mar 2, 2005 12:36:35 PM

Ron (Houston) M
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Ron (Houston)
Loc: Denver, CO , United States
Posts: 8085, Gallery
Registered on: Apr 10, 2002
Reply to: ADias

Re: Form follows function...

Quote:
ADias said:
This is what I mean by "form follows function"





For the 911 I agree however for a new model Porsche needs to design something new and flashy to attract more customers. We stay loyal to 911 no matter what but I won't buy a SUV or a 4-door sedan because it may look a bit like the 911 in design.

They can't continue on incorporating 911 pieces and design into the new product lines; they did it to Boxster and they've changed it now, they did the Cayenne HID lights and they're in the process of changing it too. just my 2 cents .

Mar 2, 2005 12:50:49 PM

Carlos from Spain M
Rennteam Moderator
Carlos from Spain
Loc: Spain. , Spain
Posts: 8465, Gallery
Registered on: Feb 9, 2003
Reply to: Ron (Houston) M

Re: Form follows function...

Hey, the guy who did the Quattroporte (the most beautiful sport sedan IMO) used to work for Porsche and is now in Pininfarina, bring him back to do a stylish and aggresive Panamera

Mar 2, 2005 2:18:36 PM

Carrageous
Pilot
Carrageous
Loc: Austin, TX , United States
Posts: 340, Gallery
Registered on: Sep 5, 2003
Reply to: neunelf

Re: Porsche Panamera

Neunelf,
Thanks for the PM. Your settings won't let me respond to you so please send me another with a way I can contact you. Interested in continuing the conversation.

Dain

Mar 5, 2005 5:13:15 PM

GT3Dominic
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GT3Dominic
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Reply to: RC A

Re: Porsche Panamera

On the money here is when it was registered by Company - Trade Marks Journal No. 6561 17 December 2004
Office of origin: Germany

Date of International Registration: 6 July 2004
Date of Protection in the UK: 6 July 2004
Panamera

International priority date claimed: 15 January 2004 (Germany)

Automobiles and their parts.

Dr. Ing. h.c.F. Porsche AG Porscheplatz 1, D-70435 Stuttgart, Germany

Agent: Lichtenstein, Körner & Partner, Rechtsanwälte Heidehofstrasse 9, D-70184 Stuttgart, Germany

Designated countries AG, AL, AM, AN, AT, AU, AZ, BA, BG, BT, BX, BY, CH, CN, CU, CY, CZ, DK, DZ, EE, EG, ES, FI, FR, GB, GE, GR, HR, HU, IE, IR, IS, IT, JP, KE, KG, KP, KR, KZ, LI, LR, LS, LT, LV, MA, MC, MD, MK, MN, MZ, NA, NO, PL, PT, RO, RU, SD, SE, SG, SI, SK, SL, SM, SZ, TJ, TM, TR, UA, UZ, VN, YU, ZM

Mar 5, 2005 6:12:28 PM

racerx
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Reply to: GT3Dominic

Re: Porsche Panamera

I think this is great news. I've always liked this pic and it could be massaged in the back for a second door. FYI the 928 has a large V8 and its front is quite low. The pic supplied with the story is an ok shape but the front needs a makeover.

Tom
 
 
 
 
 
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